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Author Topic: Why is the South so conservative?  (Read 9827 times)
Scott
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« on: July 03, 2011, 02:02:20 am »
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Charts detailing racial trends in the US indicate a very high African-American population trend across the Southern states.  In most elections, those have been the states that elect Republicans by very healthy margins.  However, in states up north, especially the New England area, there is a very low population of non-whites.  Exit polls show that more than 90% of African-Americans vote Democratic, so how can the South be so conservative and the Northeast be so liberal?
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« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2011, 02:04:08 am »
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Charts detailing racial trends in the US indicate a very high African-American population trend across the Southern states.  In most elections, those have been the states that elect Republicans by very healthy margins.  However, in states up north, especially the New England area, there is a very low population of non-whites.  Exit polls show that more than 90% of African-Americans vote Democratic, so how can the South be so conservative and the Northeast be so liberal?

Whites in the northeast tend to be better educated and less religious than whites in the south.
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Scott
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« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2011, 02:12:01 am »
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Charts detailing racial trends in the US indicate a very high African-American population trend across the Southern states.  In most elections, those have been the states that elect Republicans by very healthy margins.  However, in states up north, especially the New England area, there is a very low population of non-whites.  Exit polls show that more than 90% of African-Americans vote Democratic, so how can the South be so conservative and the Northeast be so liberal?

Whites in the northeast tend to be better educated and less religious than whites in the south.
Theoretically, the South should still be somewhat more liberal than it is today because of the high African-American population.  In 2008, McCain shouldn't have carried states like Mississippi, Alabama, Texas, etc. with such large margins.
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« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2011, 09:09:09 am »
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Charts detailing racial trends in the US indicate a very high African-American population trend across the Southern states.  In most elections, those have been the states that elect Republicans by very healthy margins.  However, in states up north, especially the New England area, there is a very low population of non-whites.  Exit polls show that more than 90% of African-Americans vote Democratic, so how can the South be so conservative and the Northeast be so liberal?

Whites in the northeast tend to be better educated and less religious than whites in the south.
Theoretically, the South should still be somewhat more liberal than it is today because of the high African-American population.  In 2008, McCain shouldn't have carried states like Mississippi, Alabama, Texas, etc. with such large margins.
Not really. Blacks vote democrat for affirmative action and for welfare.  That doesn't make them liberal overall when it comes to social or economic attitudes. Remember, blacks are the most anti-gay group in the US.
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« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2011, 10:28:34 am »
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because the south is very rural. Rural areas (except for maybe Vermont) tend to be more conservative.
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« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2011, 11:38:27 am »
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ConKiller...have you ever been to Atlanta, Miami, Orlando, Charlotte, Dallas, New Orelans or Memphis.  They are much more rural than Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island arent they
?
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« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2011, 12:41:46 pm »
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ConKiller...have you ever been to Atlanta, Miami, Orlando, Charlotte, Dallas, New Orelans or Memphis.  They are much more rural than Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island arent they
?

He meant the South vs. non-South on balance (though Rhode Island is quite dense).

In addition to what's been said, Northeasterners are more likely to identify with another ancestry--i.e. Irish-American, Italian-American.
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« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2011, 12:53:04 pm »
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ConKiller...have you ever been to Atlanta, Miami, Orlando, Charlotte, Dallas, New Orelans or Memphis.  They are much more rural than Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island arent they
?

He meant the South vs. non-South on balance (though Rhode Island is quite dense).

In addition to what's been said, Northeasterners are more likely to identify with another ancestry--i.e. Irish-American, Italian-American.

I mean also unlike the South the Northeast is historically more industrial and urbanized, which gives rise to other Democratic leaning groups like labor unions etc.

Something most Southeastern states(especially in the deep south) don't have.
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« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2011, 01:52:24 pm »
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Unlike blacks (which are 90% D everywhere), whites can be just about anything politically, depending on the location.

In the South, there are a lot of blacks, yes, and they are very Democratic, but that's outweighed by the conservatism of Southern whites. So, even in places where there are many liberal blacks, they're still outnumbered by whites, who are (in this case) very conservative. In the North, there aren't a lot of blacks, but the whites (who form the overwhelming majority in most places) are liberal.
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« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2011, 12:54:03 pm »
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Religious fundamentalism.

Unlike like most areas in the Northeast and Midwest, Evangelical church membership is higher than "Mainline" church attendance in the Southeast.   
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« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2011, 01:27:24 pm »
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Religious fundamentalism.

Unlike like most areas in the Northeast and Midwest, Evangelical church membership is higher than "Mainline" church attendance in the Southeast.   

I wouldn't say that's the main cause although it is one of many. I mean states like Idaho,  Alaska, and Montana are pretty conservative overall, but they have some of the lowest church attendance/importance of religion in daily life rates in the country.

Likewise states in the Northeast like MA and RI have large numbers of Catholic voters, but are still solidly Democratic. 
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« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2011, 01:27:38 pm »
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ConKiller...have you ever been to Atlanta, Miami, Orlando, Charlotte, Dallas, New Orelans or Memphis.  They are much more rural than Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island arent they
?

Those cities are all more Democratic than ME, NH, or RI...
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« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2011, 02:12:15 pm »
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ConKiller...have you ever been to Atlanta, Miami, Orlando, Charlotte, Dallas, New Orelans or Memphis.  They are much more rural than Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island arent they
?

Those cities are all more Democratic than ME, NH, or RI...

Atlanta; the core of I-285 is basically a mix of democrats of both races. The outer core (Cobb, east Gwinnett, Forsyth, Cherokee, Milton et al) is the type of suburbanites you find in "The Blind Side"

Miami is very strange. Its one of those areas where the suburbs are more liberal than the city. The city is very swing due to the cubans but the suburbs (especially the jewish ones) can be liberal

Orlando is lean democrat. Its amazing how the area went from being hard-core R to Democrat in just 20 years.

Mecklenburg County is similar to Orlando in that until 10-15 years ago, it was solid R and flipped Democrat rather quickly. The counties surrounding Mecklenburg are republican although not as much as other southern suburbs.

As for Dallas, the dem areas are basically south of I-30, and in parts of Mesquite, Grand Prairie, Irving. Except for some black areas of Fort Worth and Arlington, you won't run into any democratic areas for another 200 miles in either direction.

New Orleans usually goes 75-80% democrat in most elections, but I know that Metairie and Kenner to the east often go republican

Memphis traditionally (although not so much today) was a city where race was the best predictor of your political affiliation. Germantown, and the eastern parts of the county vote republican but it never shows up in the county returns as they are outvoted by the urban core of Memphis which is a black majority city and gave Obama something like 75-80 percent.
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« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2011, 02:13:15 pm »
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Religious fundamentalism.

Unlike like most areas in the Northeast and Midwest, Evangelical church membership is higher than "Mainline" church attendance in the Southeast.   

I wouldn't say that's the main cause although it is one of many. I mean states like Idaho,  Alaska, and Montana are pretty conservative overall, but they have some of the lowest church attendance/importance of religion in daily life rates in the country.

Likewise states in the Northeast like MA and RI have large numbers of Catholic voters, but are still solidly Democratic. 

The kind of conservatism found in the Intermountain West is awfully different that that found in the Southeast.  The “conservatism” found in the West is much more libertarian and tends to have much less emphasis on social issues.  In Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming the general attitude towards the federal government is “STAY AWAY”!

The South, on the other hand, is arguably one of the least libertarian regions in the entire nation.  People living in the South tend to be more receptive of the idea of the welfare state and put most of their conservative emphasis on social issues.  In the South people like a government, but only a government that stands up for the “Christian values” on which this nation was “founded”.

As for Catholics in the Industrial Midwest and Northeast, the experience of Catholic immigrants in the United States has been completely different form that of their WASP counterparts.  This explains the differences in voting behavior.  Also, many Americans are CINO’s (Catholic in Name Only) and, to some degree, Catholicism is nothing more than a token religion.  
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« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2011, 02:37:50 pm »
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Religious fundamentalism.

Unlike like most areas in the Northeast and Midwest, Evangelical church membership is higher than "Mainline" church attendance in the Southeast.   

I wouldn't say that's the main cause although it is one of many. I mean states like Idaho,  Alaska, and Montana are pretty conservative overall, but they have some of the lowest church attendance/importance of religion in daily life rates in the country.

Likewise states in the Northeast like MA and RI have large numbers of Catholic voters, but are still solidly Democratic. 

The kind of conservatism found in the Intermountain West is awfully different that that found in the Southeast.  The “conservatism” found in the West is much more libertarian and tends to have much less emphasis on social issues.  In Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming the general attitude towards the federal government is “STAY AWAY”! But keep shelling out dough for water projects, military bases, ag and mining subsidies, and leasing federal land to business for well below market value.[/b] 

Corrected.
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« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2011, 03:08:11 pm »
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Religious fundamentalism.

Unlike like most areas in the Northeast and Midwest, Evangelical church membership is higher than "Mainline" church attendance in the Southeast.  

I wouldn't say that's the main cause although it is one of many. I mean states like Idaho,  Alaska, and Montana are pretty conservative overall, but they have some of the lowest church attendance/importance of religion in daily life rates in the country.

Likewise states in the Northeast like MA and RI have large numbers of Catholic voters, but are still solidly Democratic.  

The kind of conservatism found in the Intermountain West is awfully different that that found in the Southeast.  The “conservatism” found in the West is much more libertarian and tends to have much less emphasis on social issues.  In Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming the general attitude towards the federal government is “STAY AWAY”!

The South, on the other hand, is arguably one of the least libertarian regions in the entire nation.  People living in the South tend to be more receptive of the idea of the welfare state and put most of their conservative emphasis on social issues.  In the South people like a government, but only a government that stands up for the “Christian values” on which this nation was “founded”.

As for Catholics in the Industrial Midwest and Northeast, the experience of Catholic immigrants in the United States has been completely different form that of their WASP counterparts.  This explains the differences in voting behavior.  Also, many Americans are CINO’s (Catholic in Name Only) and, to some degree, Catholicism is nothing more than a token religion.  
You're right.  Even dark red Wyoming doesn't restrict abortion and gay marriage rights as much as religious southern states.  They've also had some pro-choice people for senators.  And Alaska has a libertarian streak to it, too, especially on gun rights.  On the other hand, Idaho is probably one of the most socially conservative states in the Mountain region because a fair amount of residents there are Mormons.

The South doesn't seem to like welfare or government assistance very much, unless it's for farm subsidies.  They tend to borrow huge amounts of money for that.
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« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2011, 04:22:48 pm »
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The South is the part of the country least receptive to the idea of a welfare state. It all goes to the coloreds anyway, right?
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« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2011, 08:42:53 am »
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The South is the bastion of tradition. as well as being home to many military veterans and their families. Southerners also have a tradition to standing up for our rights from federal tyranny.

The South, on the other hand, is arguably one of the least libertarian regions in the entire nation.  People living in the South tend to be more receptive of the idea of the welfare state and put most of their conservative emphasis on social issues.  In the South people like a government, but only a government that stands up for the “Christian values” on which this nation was “founded”.

The idea that Southerners only vote for Conservatives based on social issues, and are actually very receptive to liberal programs such as socialized medicine is largely a myth. Southerners are quite fiscally conservative as well as supporters of tradition.
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« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2011, 09:09:06 am »
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The South has always been resentful of establish Northern power. That goes all the way back to Jefferson vs. Hamilton, farmers vs. industrialists. It continued with Jackson and his fight to kill the national bank. Calhoun took it to a whole different level with his support for nullification, arguably forming the Tea Party of his day. Of course the issue of slavery and the Civil War exasperated this and turned the resent into warfare. Reconstruction, Northern industrialization, the Civil Rights movement, etc. have all played into this. This resent towards the North has evolved into anger towards Northern Culture, which has spread to the west coast. Basically the South has always resented the North, and by proxy, Washington D.C. Other posts about religion, a large number of veterans, and tradition are certainly correct. But IMO what makes the South different is that it has historically always been fighting against Northern influence, which today means social secularism, government intervention in the economy, and a welfare state (or so they believe).

Also, in regards to the claim that the South is somehow economically to the left, that's just not true. They are not progressive in any political areas, though they can be populist. Essentially, they want low taxes, less regulation, but also Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. There are not many union members in the South, and so there isn't a lot of support for organized labor. But if anything, the old-style populism is being pushed aside. The South isn't poor backwoods hollers any more. It is increasingly an exurban society of middle class whites who have gone to college, make a steady income, and are quite religious. Thus, you don't get many Jim Eastland's and Russell Long's any more. Now you get Richard Burr and Lindsey Graham.
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« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2011, 11:45:53 am »
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Another question is why has the south become more conservative in the last 40 years?

The Southern Baptists arguably even endorsed the Roe. v. Wade decision when it happened. Now it seems like the anti-abortion position dominates the south at every level. Maybe the conventional view that the right alligned toward the views of the south isn't quite correct. Maybe the south has also alligned toward the views of the right.
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« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2011, 12:17:38 pm »
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Simple answer...lack of education breeds ignorance. 

Look at the states and the funding for secondary education.  The southern states are consistently the worst of the worst year after year.
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« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2011, 12:38:10 pm »
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Because people from the North are usually assholes and Southern culture is not as receptive to assholes.
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« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2011, 12:42:57 pm »
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Simple answer...lack of education breeds ignorance. 

Look at the states and the funding for secondary education.  The southern states are consistently the worst of the worst year after year.

*looks at avatar*

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« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2011, 12:44:44 pm »
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Another question is why has the south become more conservative in the last 40 years?

The Southern Baptists arguably even endorsed the Roe. v. Wade decision when it happened. Now it seems like the anti-abortion position dominates the south at every level. Maybe the conventional view that the right alligned toward the views of the south isn't quite correct. Maybe the south has also alligned toward the views of the right.
Roe V. Wade was the bridge too far. Without it, you'd keep more of the catholic vote and at least part of white dixie voting democratic based on economics.
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« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2011, 12:47:29 pm »
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Another question is why has the south become more conservative in the last 40 years?
Cite.

Quote
The Southern Baptists arguably even endorsed the Roe. v. Wade decision when it happened. Now it seems like the anti-abortion position dominates the south at every level. Maybe the conventional view that the right alligned toward the views of the south isn't quite correct. Maybe the south has also alligned toward the views of the right.



Mind you that's from about 5 years ago and some polling has shown the country more pro choice lately (after polling 2 years ago showed the opposite) but Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, Maryland, and West Virginia still continue to be pro-choice.. (Disclaimer: I am pro life.)
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That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

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