SENATE BILL: Active Vice Presidency Amendment (Tabled)

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Why are we so bothered by the Vice Presidency being exactly what the Vice Presidency is intended to be? Why are we trying to force "activity" on it?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Since the VP serves on behalf of the President during a leave of absence, is that going to be too much responsibility to have along with a Cabinet position?

[Fritz]

Former President Fritz opposes this.

[Antonio the Sixth]

1. The Vice President may simultaneously serve as Attorney General, Secretary of Federal Elections, Registrar General, Secretary of Internal Affairs, or Secretary of External Affairs upon appointment by the President.
2. Upon appointment to one of the aforementioned Cabinet position, the Vice President will be subject to the same confirmation process as any other nominee would.
3. The Vice President shall retain the option to preside over the Senate and the power to break ties in the Senate.
4. In the event that the Vice President resigns, he or she shall retain his or her Cabinet position unless resignation from that position is announced.
5. In the event that the Vice President is forcibly removed from office, he or she shall forfeit his or her Cabinet position automatically.

I still can't support this, for the same reasons. If you want to give the Veep a job, give him a job on his own.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This is already a constitutional amendment but I couldn't find the parts of the constitution this effectively changes. If anyone knows, please post here or PM me. I don't think the President can fire the VP from his elected position so that shouldn't be an issue.

But thanks Ben

This needs to be addressed and soon, otherwise I am pretty sure this new text is functionally impractical.

Pretty sure it would be in Article II, considering it's the executive branch.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I cannot support this bill.  As a Minnesotan who saw what happens when you appoint your running mate to another function (bridges start falling into rivers), there is no reason for this.

I should also point out that by forcing the president to appoint his VP into a cabinet official, you are robbing the president the ability to appoint the best qualified individual into all of the cabinet positions.  You are also depriving the candidates of choosing people they consider to be qualified VP candidates, but perhaps are not well read enough to head an executive department.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

I should also point out that by forcing the president to appoint his VP into a cabinet official, you are robbing the president the ability to appoint the best qualified individual into all of the cabinet positions.  You are also depriving the candidates of choosing people they consider to be qualified VP candidates, but perhaps are not well read enough to head an executive department.

That was my concern; now that it is optional, I think it's a cool idea to try.  If it doesn't work, we can just repeal it.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I'm glad my colleagues have come to their senses.

[Napoleon]

To the contrary, our most able and effective leaders are deterred from accepting the role of next in line to the Presidency due to the veep's boring and limited role in governing. One would have to dedicate four to eight months of doing very little if elected VP.

For example, former VP Kalwejt drafted the initial version of this amendment and would agree that the position could use improvement.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I doubt I can support this.

[tmthforu94]

Idea: As a compromise, why not give the President the option to appoint the Vice President to a cabinet position (essentially giving the VP the ability for dual office-holding). So instead of making it a requirement, just make it an option.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

The main issue I have has already been mentioned - but could have the VP as say... SoIA - then be serving as Acting President - while being SoIA, President of the Senate and vested with the powers of the presidency as well... I just think it's messy.

[Napoleon]

Idea: As a compromise, why not give the President the option to appoint the Vice President to a cabinet position (essentially giving the VP the ability for dual office-holding). So instead of making it a requirement, just make it an option.

Might want to read it again...

[tmthforu94]

Idea: As a compromise, why not give the President the option to appoint the Vice President to a cabinet position (essentially giving the VP the ability for dual office-holding). So instead of making it a requirement, just make it an option.

Might want to read it again...

Not sure what you mean by this. My idea would change the bill; I'd probably recommend removing the part on abolishing their role as President of the Senate. Just make the purpose of the bill giving the Vice President the option to also serve as a cabinet official.

[Napoleon]

1. The Vice President may simultaneously serve as Attorney General, Secretary of Federal Elections, Registrar General, Secretary of Internal Affairs, or Secretary of External Affairs upon appointment by the President.
2. Upon appointment to one of the aforementioned Cabinet position, the Vice President will be subject to the same confirmation process as any other nominee would.
3. The Vice President shall retain the option to preside over the Senate and the power to break ties in the Senate.
4. In the event that the Vice President resigns, he or she shall retain his or her Cabinet position unless resignation from that position is announced.
5. In the event that the Vice President is forcibly removed from office, he or she shall forfeit his or her Cabinet position automatically.

[tmthforu94]

1. The Vice President may simultaneously serve as Attorney General, Secretary of Federal Elections, Registrar General, Secretary of Internal Affairs, or Secretary of External Affairs upon appointment by the President.
2. Upon appointment to one of the aforementioned Cabinet position, the Vice President will be subject to the same confirmation process as any other nominee would.
3. The Vice President shall retain the option to preside over the Senate and the power to break ties in the Senate.
4. In the event that the Vice President resigns, he or she shall retain his or her Cabinet position unless resignation from that position is announced.
5. In the event that the Vice President is forcibly removed from office, he or she shall forfeit his or her Cabinet position automatically.

Well, then yeah, that version is fine. I was looking at the first post for reference, but it seems looking through Yank never officially changed it to this.

Yeah, under that version, I'd urge the Senate to pass this bill. The Vice President could very well be the best person for a position, and it'd give the VP more meaning, not just a position used to help someone get elected.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

Forgetting that someone here has a veto stamp...

It's new and shiny

- I'm proposing allowing the VP to serve as a Cabinet member temporarily in the face of an absence. But my genuine discomfort of having the VP in a difficult spot remains firmly entrenched and I would need some more arguments in favour of this...

[Napoleon]

I'm not forgetting...Article VII, Section 1 doesn't mention the President or a veto.

That being said, I disagree with your proposed compromise. However, the problem you pointed out earlier remains something I'm looking into. If anyone else has ideas, please chime in.

I wouldn't think it too objectionable to create a system to accommodate this little wrinkle. We should remember that many positions don't require much activity on a consistent basis and that a leave of absence should never be too long-- only four month terms after all.

[tmthforu94]

I'm not forgetting...Article VII, Section 1 doesn't mention the President or a veto.

That being said, I disagree with your proposed compromise. However, the problem you pointed out earlier remains something I'm looking into. If anyone else has ideas, please chime in.

I wouldn't think it too objectionable to create a system to accommodate this little wrinkle. We should remember that many positions don't require much activity on a consistent basis and that a leave of absence should never be too long-- only four month terms after all.

I agree with Nap - say you temporarily fill a cabinet position with the VP, but even after you do that you still can't find anyone. Then what? I don't think it'd be good to set a limit for how long the VP could stay in the position, so I'd say you either go all in or not at all.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I'm not forgetting...Article VII, Section 1 doesn't mention the President or a veto.

That being said, I disagree with your proposed compromise. However, the problem you pointed out earlier remains something I'm looking into. If anyone else has ideas, please chime in.

I wouldn't think it too objectionable to create a system to accommodate this little wrinkle. We should remember that many positions don't require much activity on a consistent basis and that a leave of absence should never be too long-- only four month terms after all.

While I still have strong misgivings on it - I will not object if it has unanimous, or near unanimous support from the Senate.

[Napoleon]

Maybe the Game Reform Commission can chime into the debate

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I'm not forgetting...Article VII, Section 1 doesn't mention the President or a veto.

That being said, I disagree with your proposed compromise. However, the problem you pointed out earlier remains something I'm looking into. If anyone else has ideas, please chime in.

I wouldn't think it too objectionable to create a system to accommodate this little wrinkle. We should remember that many positions don't require much activity on a consistent basis and that a leave of absence should never be too long-- only four month terms after all.

I agree with Nap - say you temporarily fill a cabinet position with the VP, but even after you do that you still can't find anyone. Then what? I don't think it'd be good to set a limit for how long the VP could stay in the position, so I'd say you either go all in or not at all.

If those were the options, I'd rather not at all.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

1. The Vice President may simultaneously serve as Attorney General, Secretary of Federal Elections, Registrar General, Secretary of Internal Affairs, or Secretary of External Affairs upon appointment by the President.
2. Upon appointment to one of the aforementioned Cabinet position, the Vice President will be subject to the same confirmation process as any other nominee would.
3. The Vice President shall retain the option to preside over the Senate and the power to break ties in the Senate.
4. In the event that the Vice President resigns, he or she shall retain his or her Cabinet position unless resignation from that position is announced.
5. In the event that the Vice President is forcibly removed from office, he or she shall forfeit his or her Cabinet position automatically.
6. In the event that the Vice President is acting President, the Vice President must devolve their Cabinet responsibilities to another Cabinet member for the duration of their Service.

What about this addition?

[Napoleon]

What about this:

Changing DSoFE to a fill-in position for any cabinet office as needed?

The VP could be given an official Cabinet level position or the fill in position. It kills two birds I want dead with one bill. The Deputy position can then put his or her skills to work as needed.

Thoughts?

[Napoleon]

Your idea is good, too, Polnut. Hopefully others can add to this: all of Atlasia will be effected, and be able to vote on this if it passes the Senate.

I am so glad the stupid bickering is finished and I can get back to my old self.