Will Obama's $4tn debt reduction target get Republicans to agree to tax hikes?

[Jacobtm]

In my view, Obama will NOT get Republicans to agree to raise taxes, no matter what he does.

This whole debate has been characterized by Republicans setting the terms, not giving in to anything Obama wants, regardless of what he offers them in return.

The new $4 trillion debt reduction plan, I feel, will be the same. Republicans will not give Obama any tax hikes, even though he has agreed to cut more and more spending. They will keep taking everything he gives them and give nothing back.

They have the superior strategy and are not going to budge on tax hikes, and Obama can't make them. It seems.

[memphis]

The GOP will not go along with anything Obama proposes, under any conditions, at any time. Meeting them half-way (or well past half-way) only emboldens them. He needs to buy a clue and be half as stubborn and disingenuous as they are.

[Torie]

Does Obama have guts after all?  Has he had an Epiphany?  He is now - at last -  coming up with real numbers perhaps.  Yes, I know, it will all fall apart in the details, and proven to be all a mirage, but hey, keep hope alive!  The key of course, now that we are stumbling into real numbers, is tax reform. That is the only way to finesse this mess.

[Bull Moose Base]

I think the GOP will agree to raise taxes if the Democrats agree not to say the word "taxes".  Not so unlike something a child would demand.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

At this stage, with debt this high it's only ideological pandering which is stopping the GOP doing the correct thing, which is to increase taxes... a small increase that an overwhelming majority of people will not even notice would make a HUGE difference collectively.

[memphis]

Lost amid all this debate is that the overall debt isn't even that high. Once you disregard the amount the government owes itself, it's fifty-something percent of GDP. Not that high compared to other developed nations. Yet, we've all been whipped up into this moral panic by the GOP in a cynical move that has all the worst intentions.

[Lief 🗽]

Lost amid all this debate is that the overall debt isn't even that high. Once you disregard the amount the government owes itself, it's fifty-something percent of GDP. Not that high compared to other developed nations. Yet, we've all been whipped up into this moral panic by the GOP in a cynical move that has all the worst intentions.

Pretty much. The fact that we're talking about debt reduction at a time of low interest rates and persistently high unemployment continues to be insane.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

The Big O is putting Medicare and SS cuts on the table now to get the pubs to agree to tax increases.......your thoughts?

[Verily]

The Big O is putting Medicare and SS cuts on the table now to get the pubs to agree to tax increases.......your thoughts?

That article doesn't tell us anything. However, cuts to SS to "reduce the deficit" are troubling as SS is supposed to be fiscally independent of the rest of the government. It indicates that the government still views the SS fund as a pot of free money to be dipped into whenever they want. We need Al Gore's lockbox.

[t_host1]

At this stage, with debt this high it's only ideological pandering which is stopping the GOP doing the correct thing, which is to increase taxes... a small increase that an overwhelming majority of people will not even notice would make a HUGE difference collectively.

 a foundational corner stone in the existence of Obama. He is still over 6T short of an imaginary budget, the Dem's haven't had a budget for some time now, and, do not want anything to do with establishing of a budget.
 Stopping the dilution of the dollar is the task at hand while the mass's survive the governess/wall street collective rape of the economy. Anything short of "disbursement only of existing confiscated monies", will be a failure for the US to succeed by, and, of it's declaration of independents.

[memphis]

Forgive my cognitive dissonance. I'm reluctantly giving Obama the benefit of the doubt and am going to assume this is all some giant stunt to create the narrative the he offered the GOP the moon and they wouldn't take it because they are that damned ideological and stubborn. Nothing else makes sense. Even so, Obama is giving the GOP a huge opening for attacks in 2012. If W had proposed slashing Medicare and SS, there would have been anarchy.

[Jacobtm]

Nate Silver actually just chimed in on this topic. His conclusion is that Republicans will be unlikely to compromise because of one key fact:






Only 41% of Democratic voters are ´´liberal´´, wheras 67% of Republican voters are ´´conservative´´. Republicans have a much more ideologically united base than Democrats. Democrats have to rely on moderates and even some conservatives to get into office.

So the Democrats, relying on a more ideologically diverse set of voters, have plenty of reason to compromise. The Republicans don´t.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/07/why-the-g-o-p-cannot-compromise/

[t_host1]

Nate Silver actually just chimed in on this topic. His conclusion is that Republicans will be unlikely to compromise because of one key fact:






Only 41% of Democratic voters are ´´liberal´´, wheras 67% of Republican voters are ´´conservative´´. Republicans have a much more ideologically united base than Democrats. Democrats have to rely on moderates and even some conservatives to get into office.

So the Democrats, relying on a more ideologically diverse set of voters, have plenty of reason to compromise. The Republicans don´t.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/07/why-the-g-o-p-cannot-compromise/

 That is a very accurate point. It also explains why? when, it comes to making clear and decisive decisions, it is, nearly impossible.

[Mr. Morden]

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/91555/the-non-grand-bargain-might-pass

[Torie]

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/91555/the-non-grand-bargain-might-pass

Chait makes a lot of sense, in part because that way both parties have fodder to bash each other and will perceive that it preserves their pre-existing political position at least (absent that, of course no deal could be cut given the lack of selflessness in the political class).  The loser? Us.

[Хahar 🤔]

no

[specific_name]

Of course not. The Republicans want to make the country ungovernable until they have control again. The real failing of Obama and the Democrats is that they still appeal to this sham bipartisanship. The party has to grow a pair or go down in flames. It's a real tragedy when the anti-bank populist rhetoric is coming from the right because the supposedly left wing party hasn't advocated for working people in ages.

[CARLHAYDEN]

This thread is so funny,

Obama's constant pushing for more and higher taxes isn't likely to be too popular in the real world.

[Skill and Chance]

This thread is so funny,

Obama's constant pushing for more and higher taxes isn't likely to be too popular in the real world.

Primarily GOP-advocated fiscal austerity sending us into a true depression and pushing unemployment up to 18% by 2013 is likely to be even less popular in the real world.  But that doesn't matter as long as you win the next election, right?

[memphis]

This thread is so funny,

Obama's constant pushing for more and higher taxes isn't likely to be too popular in the real world.

Primarily GOP-advocated fiscal austerity sending us into a true depression and pushing unemployment up to 18% by 2013 is likely to be even less popular in the real world.  But that doesn't matter as long as you win the next election, right?

^^^^^^^^^^^
"Real" people are just dying to kick Grandma off Medicare. Who cares that she's 85 with osteoporosis, diabetes, and heart disease? The market will take care of her.

[Skill and Chance]

This thread is so funny,

Obama's constant pushing for more and higher taxes isn't likely to be too popular in the real world.

Primarily GOP-advocated fiscal austerity sending us into a true depression and pushing unemployment up to 18% by 2013 is likely to be even less popular in the real world.  But that doesn't matter as long as you win the next election, right?

^^^^^^^^^^^
"Real" people are just dying to kick Grandma off Medicare. Who cares that she's 85 with osteoporosis, diabetes, and heart disease? The market will take care of her.

Well that was rhetorical.  I don't think anyone really expects it to get that bad.  That said, I do believe this labor market is truly the new normal and it will require a government stimulus/public works project on the same scale as World War II to change that. 

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

This thread is so funny,

Obama's constant pushing for more and higher taxes isn't likely to be too popular in the real world.

Primarily GOP-advocated fiscal austerity sending us into a true depression and pushing unemployment up to 18% by 2013 is likely to be even less popular in the real world.  But that doesn't matter as long as you win the next election, right?

^^^^^^^^^^^
"Real" people are just dying to kick Grandma off Medicare. Who cares that she's 85 with osteoporosis, diabetes, and heart disease? The market will take care of her.

Well that was rhetorical.  I don't think anyone really expects it to get that bad.  That said, I do believe this labor market is truly the new normal and it will require a government stimulus/public works project on the same scale as World War II to change that. 

That would be a cure worse than the disease.  Short-term stimulus to deal with a transient problem is one thing, but we can't afford to have spending and taxation permanently out of whack.  We need some long term spending reductions.

[CARLHAYDEN]

This thread is so funny,

Obama's constant pushing for more and higher taxes isn't likely to be too popular in the real world.

Primarily GOP-advocated fiscal austerity sending us into a true depression and pushing unemployment up to 18% by 2013 is likely to be even less popular in the real world.  But that doesn't matter as long as you win the next election, right?

^^^^^^^^^^^
"Real" people are just dying to kick Grandma off Medicare. Who cares that she's 85 with osteoporosis, diabetes, and heart disease? The market will take care of her.

Let me change the "funny" to farcical.

http://townhall.com/columnists/donaldlambro/2011/07/08/in_a_weak_economy,_new_taxes_make_no_sense

[Badger]

I think the GOP will agree to raise taxes if the Democrats agree not to say the word "taxes".  Not so unlike something a child would demand.

I'm torn between this response and "F$%k no."

Strangely, I think the GOP caucus is too.

[memphis]

Thing is, we've been down this tax thing before. 1993. Huge deficits. Clinton budget raises taxes. GOP unanimously votes against, claiming that taxes destroy jobs. How'd that end again?