Obama storms out of debt ceiling talks

[Bull Moose Base]

If Obama does not want to sign a short term measure, he can shut it all down. The GOP will not agree to tax increases without real entitlement reform, and should not, and so far, none is in the offing.  The GOP might as well shut down as a party rather than agree to tax increases that will sustain the feds spending at 24% of the GDP, rather than what the debt commission proposed, which was around 20% (as opposed to 18% now). 

I don't know what Obama's storming out accomplished.  That is hardly a way to instill confidence.

In the meantime, an article came out in the WSJ today about how if we want to leave entitlements in place, the middle class is going to have to pay more taxes - a lot more. It is either that, or increase the federal income tax rate on those earning more than $250,000 per year to something like 77%. No reputable economist thinks that it economically practicable, and of course it is not politically possible. I will start a new topic on the WSJ article.

That's fine.  But then don't threaten to crash the economy.  At least McConnell has found a reason not to crash it even if it is just political damage to the GOP.

[Bull Moose Base]

If Obama does not want to sign a short term measure, he can shut it all down. The GOP will not agree to tax increases without real entitlement reform, and should not, and so far, none is in the offing.  The GOP might as well shut down as a party rather than agree to tax increases that will sustain the feds spending at 24% of the GDP, rather than what the debt commission proposed, which was around 20% (as opposed to 18% now). 

I don't know what Obama's storming out accomplished.  That is hardly a way to instill confidence.

In the meantime, an article came out in the WSJ today about how if we want to leave entitlements in place, the middle class is going to have to pay more taxes - a lot more. It is either that, or increase the federal income tax rate on those earning more than $250,000 per year to something like 77%. No reputable economist thinks that it economically practicable, and of course it is not politically possible. I will start a new topic on the WSJ article.

That's fine.  But then don't threaten to crash the economy.  At least McConnell has found a reason not to crash it even if it is just political damage to the GOP.

If Obama won't agree to a short term measure given the impasse, it seems to me he is the one who will kill a debt ceiling increase, and then we can litigate how the feds will slash a third of their spending. I think Obama got pissed and lost his cool, because he realized that in the end, he has no choice but to take Cantor's medicine on this. We shall see.

Won't agree to a short-term measure because it's part of a terrible deal.  If the Republican say no taxes + give us these spending cuts or we'll tank the economy and Obama says F your threats and Republicans tank the economy, good luck with the response.  Though if this story is an indication, maybe the media will shepherd the GOP through it.  There's no story.  Sounds like Obama was concluding a meeting for the day, Cantor was being a nuisance so Obama gave him some crap, then called it a day. They're meeting tomorrow anyway.  Who gives a ?

[Bull Moose Base]

I now positively want congress not to raise the debt ceiling.  Congress decides whether of not to raise the ceiling, and congress also tells the executive branch how much to spend on what, so the decision is theirs.  Let the president make his case to the public about whom he wants more taxes from and when and what spending he wants to cut for whom, let congress make their case to the public about what spending they want to cut for whom in exchange for no tax hikes at all on anybody, presumably ever.  Then, just let August 2nd pass, let the public see how much government spending will have to be cut in the wake of the default, and what the effects are just so nobody ever has to pay any more taxes in any form, and let the public decide what they want.  I was against a version of this idea before, but now, well, sometimes the best way to deal with a virus is to inject the virus.  If talking is doing no good, then stop talking; silence and consequences can be quite good things all by themselves.

The financial crash of 2008 was everybody's fault; it was the fault of the Fed, of politicians on both sides wanting to artificially inflate home ownership, of GSE's that crafted a mortgage investment model, of banks and Wall Street deciding to cash in by using that model, and for those Americans who bought houses that they honestly couldn't afford.  If there is a crash of 2011, it will again be everybody's fault, Dems resisting any kind of entitlement reform and need for a broader and less progressive tax base, Pubbies for their very practiced my-way-or-the-abyss negotiation tactics and worship of private-sector profit-maximization as the only worthwhile thing about life, and the American people for lining up behind them year after year after ever-more-miserable year.  I'm serious, we should honestly blame ourselves for all of this.  I certainly blame myself.  I supported Obama in '08, and in that, I was being much too naive for someone who should know better.  Not that anybody else was a better choice.  But, all I do is support politicians who I naively think can accomplish anything, and then, when they don't, sit on the sidelines and bitch in internet forums; there's no particular virtue in that at all, and it sure doesn't make me any better than any of them.  Why blame the politicians when it was we who hired them all?

So, Obama is impatient and has a temper and Cantor is a cardboard-cutout parody of himself.  That's supposed to be news to anyone?  

Well, it's not news at all.  The real news...will be coming shortly.     And my only editorial on the news that's coming is that we all absolutely deserve it.

I agree with your conclusion about who is to blame.  We buy Chinese like we're hungry Jews on Christmas Night, then look around for someone to blame for the state of the economy.  But as for Obama, what can he possibly do here?  He's dependent on congress passing his proposals.  He proposed a plan to reduce the debt by $4 trillion and was rejected.  Who cares if he has a temper and Republicans inevitably distort their account of what happened for political advantage?  There is no equivalence between GOP and Democratic behavior here, let alone Obama who is presiding as if he were an Independent. The solution is easy.  We need the debt ceiling raised? The GOP blocks it.  We need more stimulus? The GOP blocks it.  We need effective financial regulation?  The GOP blocks it.  We need anti-global warming policy? The GOP denies its reality.  Divided government is nothing but gridlock and with this government, it's paralysis trying to get out of the way of a freight train.  So pick the less insane party and give it full control of government.

[Bull Moose Base]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/148454/Debt-Ceiling-Increase-Remains-Unpopular-Americans.aspx

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/562535/201102081909/Nyet-On-Debt.aspx

Mr. president, please make this an issue with the American people. Just make sure you listen, rather than tell them what you want them to think.

Even Gallup cannot hide how unpopular it is, the same pollster that highly off in the presidential race last go around.

Nope.  Tell them what to think because people (understandably) have no idea what the debt ceiling is or what will happen if it's not raised.  Better than listening to them say "Don't you dare raise the debt ceiling" and then in a month listening to them rant about "Why the f didn't you raise the debt ceiling?!"

[Bull Moose Base]

Anyone else think the McConnell escape hatch will pass and then the country immediately forgets this whole thing happened?