Big majority of Palestinians wants jobs, dead Jews

[Gustaf]

"Seventy-two percent backed denying the thousands of years of Jewish history in Jerusalem, 62% supported kidnapping IDF soldiers and holding them hostage, and 53% were in favor or teaching songs about hating Jews in Palestinian schools.

When given a quote from the Hamas Charter about the need for battalions from the Arab and Islamic world to defeat the Jews, 80% agreed. Seventy-three percent agreed with a quote from the charter (and a hadith, or tradition ascribed to the prophet Muhammad) about the need to kill Jews hiding behind stones and trees."

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=229493

Flame away everyone!

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

How rude for the modern day Amalekites to hold such views.

[GMantis]

I'm not sure how much one can trust polls by an organization which equates "stopping settlements with ethnic cleansing" (http://jstreet.org/campaigns/stopping-settlements-ethnic-cleansing-no-way/) and ally themselves with the likes of John Hagee (http://blogs.jta.org/politics/article/2009/07/10/1006455/j-street-continues-the-criticism-of-the-israel-project).

[Gustaf]

Well, it's a propaganda-filled conflict. I'd note though that the article says the poll was conducted together with the Palestinian Center for Public Opinion, which seems to be a Palestinian organization.

[Lief 🗽]

Yeah, why wouldn't they? The Israeli army has been murdering them and the state oppressing them and stealing their land for years. If a foreign power were doing that to me and my relatives, I'd support all of the above as well.

[Gustaf]

Yeah, why wouldn't they? The Israeli army has been murdering them and the state oppressing them and stealing their land for years. If a foreign power were doing that to me and my relatives, I'd support all of the above as well.

Of course, that makes sense. The Jews have been stealing our money and oppressing our race ever since they killed Jesus. That is why we need to find a final solution to them.

Do you see why there is something wrong with your charming way of reasoning?

[opebo]

Yeah, why wouldn't they? The Israeli army has been murdering them and the state oppressing them and stealing their land for years. If a foreign power were doing that to me and my relatives, I'd support all of the above as well.

Of course, that makes sense. The Jews have been stealing our money and oppressing our race ever since they killed Jesus. That is why we need to find a final solution to them.

Do you see why there is something wrong with your charming way of reasoning?

Dude, you're as usual straw-manning.  Leif is expressing an understanding or sympathy for the Palestinians hating a specific state - Israel - which has actually been killing and oppressing them.  Quite different from hating 'the Jews'.  They may hate that group as well, but it is analogous to the Jews hating the Nazi state (reasonable) and hating Germans (reasonable also, but different).

[GMantis]

Yeah, why wouldn't they? The Israeli army has been murdering them and the state oppressing them and stealing their land for years. If a foreign power were doing that to me and my relatives, I'd support all of the above as well.

Of course, that makes sense. The Jews have been stealing our money and oppressing our race ever since they killed Jesus. That is why we need to find a final solution to them.

Do you see why there is something wrong with your charming way of reasoning?

Be careful not to inhale the straw.

[Gustaf]

Yeah, why wouldn't they? The Israeli army has been murdering them and the state oppressing them and stealing their land for years. If a foreign power were doing that to me and my relatives, I'd support all of the above as well.

Of course, that makes sense. The Jews have been stealing our money and oppressing our race ever since they killed Jesus. That is why we need to find a final solution to them.

Do you see why there is something wrong with your charming way of reasoning?

Dude, you're as usual straw-manning.  Leif is expressing an understanding or sympathy for the Palestinians hating a specific state - Israel - which has actually been killing and oppressing them.  Quite different from hating 'the Jews'.  They may hate that group as well, but it is analogous to the Jews hating the Nazi state (reasonable) and hating Germans (reasonable also, but different).

No, he said that it was reasonable by the Palestinians to want to kill all the Jews because they had suffered wrongs from the Israeli state. That type of mindset is extremely destructive and should not be condoned by anyone. The dehumanizing of the other is the groundswell for all ideologies of hate.

[Gustaf]

Yeah, why wouldn't they? The Israeli army has been murdering them and the state oppressing them and stealing their land for years. If a foreign power were doing that to me and my relatives, I'd support all of the above as well.

Of course, that makes sense. The Jews have been stealing our money and oppressing our race ever since they killed Jesus. That is why we need to find a final solution to them.

Do you see why there is something wrong with your charming way of reasoning?

Be careful not to inhale the straw.

I know you're also fond of persecuting groups that you do not identify with, but I'm afraid I'm too liberal for that sort of thing.

[GMantis]

Yeah, why wouldn't they? The Israeli army has been murdering them and the state oppressing them and stealing their land for years. If a foreign power were doing that to me and my relatives, I'd support all of the above as well.

Of course, that makes sense. The Jews have been stealing our money and oppressing our race ever since they killed Jesus. That is why we need to find a final solution to them.

Do you see why there is something wrong with your charming way of reasoning?

Be careful not to inhale the straw.

I know you're also fond of persecuting groups that you do not identify with, but I'm afraid I'm too liberal for that sort of thing.

Which groups?

[Gustaf]

Yeah, why wouldn't they? The Israeli army has been murdering them and the state oppressing them and stealing their land for years. If a foreign power were doing that to me and my relatives, I'd support all of the above as well.

Of course, that makes sense. The Jews have been stealing our money and oppressing our race ever since they killed Jesus. That is why we need to find a final solution to them.

Do you see why there is something wrong with your charming way of reasoning?

Be careful not to inhale the straw.

I know you're also fond of persecuting groups that you do not identify with, but I'm afraid I'm too liberal for that sort of thing.

Which groups?

Well, we seem to be up to Muslims and Jews so far. I'm guessing the Roma might be in there as well though?

[GMantis]

Yeah, why wouldn't they? The Israeli army has been murdering them and the state oppressing them and stealing their land for years. If a foreign power were doing that to me and my relatives, I'd support all of the above as well.

Of course, that makes sense. The Jews have been stealing our money and oppressing our race ever since they killed Jesus. That is why we need to find a final solution to them.

Do you see why there is something wrong with your charming way of reasoning?

Be careful not to inhale the straw.

I know you're also fond of persecuting groups that you do not identify with, but I'm afraid I'm too liberal for that sort of thing.

Which groups?

Well, we seem to be up to Muslims and Jews so far. I'm guessing the Roma might be in there as well though?

When have I said that I wanted to prosecute Muslims and Jews for who they are?

[bore]

Just because it's wrong doesn't mean it's not completely understandable, the state of Israel has been opressing them for years and when that state is trying closely to identify itself as a jewish state its an easy conclusion to jump to, that ""jews" are opressing me and need to be stopped".

[Gustaf]

Yeah, why wouldn't they? The Israeli army has been murdering them and the state oppressing them and stealing their land for years. If a foreign power were doing that to me and my relatives, I'd support all of the above as well.

Of course, that makes sense. The Jews have been stealing our money and oppressing our race ever since they killed Jesus. That is why we need to find a final solution to them.

Do you see why there is something wrong with your charming way of reasoning?

Be careful not to inhale the straw.

I know you're also fond of persecuting groups that you do not identify with, but I'm afraid I'm too liberal for that sort of thing.

Which groups?

Well, we seem to be up to Muslims and Jews so far. I'm guessing the Roma might be in there as well though?

When have I said that I wanted to prosecute Muslims and Jews for who they are?

Well, you seem to be in agreement with Lief that it is fair to murder Jews because the state of Israel does bad things. Of course, with Muslims it is less PC to state such things outright.

You do seem to reflexively take a stand against Muslims and Muslim countries on most issues, which is indicative of a certain, rather narrow-minded attitude. I remember you cited some weird page which seemed rather racist as well.

[Gustaf]

Just because it's wrong doesn't mean it's not completely understandable, the state of Israel has been opressing them for years and when that state is trying closely to identify itself as a jewish state its an easy conclusion to jump to, that ""jews" are opressing me and need to be stopped".

Of course, one can analyze and understand certain patterns of thought. But saying what Lief said seems to go beyond that. It seems to be more of a "if I had the chance I would jump in and kill some Jews myself"

And I always try to be wary of people who too readily proclaim understanding for the murder of innocents. It spooks me a little bit.

[GMantis]

Yeah, why wouldn't they? The Israeli army has been murdering them and the state oppressing them and stealing their land for years. If a foreign power were doing that to me and my relatives, I'd support all of the above as well.

Of course, that makes sense. The Jews have been stealing our money and oppressing our race ever since they killed Jesus. That is why we need to find a final solution to them.

Do you see why there is something wrong with your charming way of reasoning?

Be careful not to inhale the straw.

I know you're also fond of persecuting groups that you do not identify with, but I'm afraid I'm too liberal for that sort of thing.

Which groups?

Well, we seem to be up to Muslims and Jews so far. I'm guessing the Roma might be in there as well though?

When have I said that I wanted to prosecute Muslims and Jews for who they are?

Well, you seem to be in agreement with Lief that it is fair to murder Jews because the state of Israel does bad things. Of course, with Muslims it is less PC to state such things outright.

You do seem to reflexively take a stand against Muslims and Muslim countries on most issues, which is indicative of a certain, rather narrow-minded attitude. I remember you cited some weird page which seemed rather racist as well.

No, I think it's not surprising that such an attitude has developed among the Palestinians. I've certainly not stated that I approve of this.
And no, I don't take a reflexive stand against Muslims or Muslim countries. What do you think I'm doing on this thread (or all the threads were I've taken a pro-Palestinian position)?
As for that site, I was just using it to link to a video that was certainly authentic.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Yeah, why wouldn't they? The Israeli army has been murdering them and the state oppressing them and stealing their land for years. If a foreign power were doing that to me and my relatives, I'd support all of the above as well.

Of course, that makes sense. The Jews have been stealing our money and oppressing our race ever since they killed Jesus. That is why we need to find a final solution to them.

Do you see why there is something wrong with your charming way of reasoning?

Be careful not to inhale the straw.

I know you're also fond of persecuting groups that you do not identify with, but I'm afraid I'm too liberal for that sort of thing.

Which groups?

Well, we seem to be up to Muslims and Jews so far. I'm guessing the Roma might be in there as well though?

That brings up an interesting question.  I wonder if one were to do a survey of Israelis today how many of them would be aware that Jews were not the only ethnic group targeted by the Nazis for extermination?

[Gustaf]

Yeah, why wouldn't they? The Israeli army has been murdering them and the state oppressing them and stealing their land for years. If a foreign power were doing that to me and my relatives, I'd support all of the above as well.

Of course, that makes sense. The Jews have been stealing our money and oppressing our race ever since they killed Jesus. That is why we need to find a final solution to them.

Do you see why there is something wrong with your charming way of reasoning?

Be careful not to inhale the straw.

I know you're also fond of persecuting groups that you do not identify with, but I'm afraid I'm too liberal for that sort of thing.

Which groups?

Well, we seem to be up to Muslims and Jews so far. I'm guessing the Roma might be in there as well though?

That brings up an interesting question.  I wonder if one were to do a survey of Israelis today how many of them would be aware that Jews were not the only ethnic group targeted by the Nazis for extermination?

Presumably about as few as in most groups? Given the general awareness of history overall I doubt many people know of the Roma and how they were targeted (or, for that matter, gays and social democrats).

[opebo]

No, he said that it was reasonable by the Palestinians to want to kill all the Jews because they had suffered wrongs from the Israeli state. That type of mindset is extremely destructive and should not be condoned by anyone. The dehumanizing of the other is the groundswell for all ideologies of hate.

Perhaps, but I'm not worried about it, and find your concern a bit inappropriate.  This sort of concern is like making the 'good Germans' (all three of them) your main priority in 1943 rather than fomenting hatred of the whole society to get the job done (destroying it).

[Gustaf]

No, he said that it was reasonable by the Palestinians to want to kill all the Jews because they had suffered wrongs from the Israeli state. That type of mindset is extremely destructive and should not be condoned by anyone. The dehumanizing of the other is the groundswell for all ideologies of hate.

Perhaps, but I'm not worried about it, and find your concern a bit inappropriate.  This sort of concern is like making the 'good Germans' (all three of them) your main priority in 1943 rather than fomenting hatred of the whole society to get the job done (destroying it).

You're such an old reactionary. You need to get with the times. Modern people don't have to walk around and hate so much in order to get things done. It seems rather uncivilized.

[opebo]

You're such an old reactionary. You need to get with the times. Modern people don't have to walk around and hate so much in order to get things done. It seems rather uncivilized.

I don't know what is so 'modern' about getting your land stolen, getting shot in the head, and your house knocked down by the Israelis.   Perhaps you meant post-modern, given WWII was a kind of high point of modernity.  But leaving that aside, warfare seems to always be uncivilized, does it not?

[Gustaf]

You're such an old reactionary. You need to get with the times. Modern people don't have to walk around and hate so much in order to get things done. It seems rather uncivilized.

I don't know what is so 'modern' about getting your land stolen, getting shot in the head, and your house knocked down by the Israelis.   Perhaps you meant post-modern, given WWII was a kind of high point of modernity.  But leaving that aside, warfare seems to always be uncivilized, does it not?

Oh, it's rather that you seem to think that the masses must be wiped into a hate-filled frenzy in order to reach desirable policy aims. That seems to reflect a rather medieval mindset. We did not for example slaughter all Germans after WWII and the world has been a lot better off for it - Germany has contributed a lot both economically and culturally to Europe and the world during the last 60 years.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I wonder if one were to do a survey of Israelis today how many of them would be aware that Jews were not the only ethnic group targeted by the Nazis for extermination?

Presumably about as few as in most groups? Given the general awareness of history overall I doubt many people know of the Roma and how they were targeted (or, for that matter, gays and social democrats).

One would hope that a country that owes its very existence due to what happened in the Holocaust would be a bit more mindful of what happened then.

[Gustaf]

I wonder if one were to do a survey of Israelis today how many of them would be aware that Jews were not the only ethnic group targeted by the Nazis for extermination?

Presumably about as few as in most groups? Given the general awareness of history overall I doubt many people know of the Roma and how they were targeted (or, for that matter, gays and social democrats).

One would hope that a country that owes its very existence due to what happened in the Holocaust would be a bit more mindful of what happened then.

The Holocaust is a pretty important event for most European countries. I can assure you that the population of Sweden has very little idea about events that were essential for our creation.