An idea about the House-Senate deficit panel that both Reid and Boehner endorse

[Torie]

The fear is that the panel will gridlock, and back we are at square zero whenever. How about, if they cannot agree, then each party gets to pick 50% of the cuts, with a provision that you cannot count as a cut spending saved from winding down the twin wars as currently projected by the Obama administration's time tables, since that is already baked into the cake? In other words, no phony cuts!

 That way, we know we will not have another redux of the raising the debt ceiling circus before the election.  Which should make the Dems happy, no, since avoiding a redux, and another series of votes on this, with all the political attention attending it,  seems to be their major concern these days? 

Just a thought.  I am trying to think of ways out of the box. Light a candle rather than just curse the darkness.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

The fear is that the panel will gridlock, and back we are at square zero whenever. How about, if they cannot agree, then each party gets to pick 50% of the cuts, with a provision that you cannot count as a cut spending saved from winding down the twin wars as currently projected by the Obama administration's time tables, since that is already baked into the cake? In other words, no phony cuts!

That way, we know we will not have another redux of the raising the debt ceiling circus before the election.  Which should make the Dems happy, no, since avoiding a redux, and another series of votes on this, with all the political attention attending it,  seems to be their major concern these days? 

Just a thought.  I am trying to think of ways out of the box. Light a candle rather than just curse the darkness.

The fatal flaw in your plan, old man.

[Torie]

It's impossible to put into legislation language that precludes phony cuts Grumps?  How pessimistic of you! 

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

It's impossible to put into legislation language that precludes phony cuts Grumps?  How pessimistic of you! 

It's almost impossible to pass legislation to preclude phony cuts.

Scratch pessimistic and insert realistic

[Torie]

It's impossible to put into legislation language that precludes phony cuts Grumps?  How pessimistic of you! 

It's almost impossible to pass legislation to preclude phony cuts.

Scratch pessimistic and insert realistic

"Almost" eh?  That is the time when you hire a really good and creative lawyer Grumps, to find the daylight attending the qualify adjective.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I actually like your idea, Torie......out of the box, it is!

[Marston]

Yes, out of one box and, subsequently, into another. All this doesn't circumvent the veto pen which, if the present debate is any indication, the President will likely use on any substantial gutting of entitlements from the GOP's 50%. Yes, I know that Obama was about to agree to changes in eligibility, some means-testing and COLA fixes in his 'Grand Bargain' with Boehner but most of those adjustments were cosmetic, at best, and they were the GOP's attempt at 'compromise'. Imagine what they would do if they had free reign over their 50%!

It is still an admirable attempt at getting out of this mess. One question: can projected interest savings be included in the mix? That's not really a direct "cut" but it's still factored in by both the Blue's and Red's plans.

[Torie]

Yes, out of one box and, subsequently, into another. All this doesn't circumvent the veto pen which, if the present debate is any indication, the President will likely use on any substantial gutting of entitlements from the GOP's 50%. Yes, I know that Obama was about to agree to changes in eligibility, some means-testing and COLA fixes in his 'Grand Bargain' with Boehner but most of those adjustments were cosmetic, at best, and they were the GOP's attempt at 'compromise'. Imagine what they would do if they had free reign over their 50%!

It is still an admirable attempt at getting out of this mess. One question: can projected interest savings be included in the mix? That's not really a direct "cut" but it's still factored in by both the Blue's and Red's plans.

Reductions in interest costs count. That is a real cash flow savings. Obama won't veto it. If he did, he would own the partial government shutdown.  One thing we know about Obama - he hates to have his fingerprints on much, without a lot of political cover. Soaring gauzy rhetoric is more his thing.  Heck, he is going to sign at this point whatever hits his desk, no matter what is in it, including apparently the Boehner bill, which he has been careful to avoid saying he would veto - for good political reasons.   

[anvi]

I think, Torie, at this stage in the game, it's not a bad idea.  The provision about each party getting to pick 50% of the cuts if no agreement is reached should act as an incentive for the two sides to cooperate some.  Of course, the word *should* in politics is now pretty much un-meaningful, but that doesn't mean something like this is not worth a try.

I've spent so much of my time the last few days fuming of the blunders both sides have made, and what opportunities have been lost as a result, to see a desirable way forward.  But, sadly, lots of ships have left the harbor, leaving the country standing on the dock, and we have to just get past it at this point.  I personally wouldn't have been nearly as worried about another ceiling lift before the next election as the Dems were, and I think the Pubbies have emerged from this as the comparative winners.  But the Dem leaders have chosen their priorities, and now have to live with them.  

Thanks for the candle.  

[Torie]

In tandem with this, we need to get going with tax reform - now. Yes, now. Hopefully someday, the Dems will get the memo that if they want to Pubbies to sign off on revenue increases, that is the only way to get there.  And on that one, team Boehner is going to have to jettison the Tea Party, because getting anywhere near what they are proposing means slashing the level of the entitlement state in a way that would be political suicide.  At the end of the day, public opinion matters. Someone needs to tell the Tea Party that.

[anvi]

I'll start off by saying that someone needs to send the Dems who are still resistant to the idea a memo informing them that lowering the brackets and trashing the deductions does raise more revenue than just raising the rate of the top bracket, and is better for economic growth, and job growth, too. 

But telling the TEA Party anything that they will accept is, at this point, in my view, pretty much impossible.  Having won elections and galvanized the GOP revival in the last two and a half years, their members believe that public opinion does back them up and that the GOP owes them.  I for one am not jealous at all of Boehner's job, and give him plus points for having been willing in principle to go for so many revenue enhancements in talks with Obama, which would have drawn huge fire from the "rank and file" in the House.  Of course, the TEA Party is not in touch with the consequences of what they are advocating, and does not care about either those consequences or how much the GOP establishment fears, rightly, public backlash against those consequences. 

If anybody can successfully make the TEA Party swallow some needed medicine, I will personally raise General Patton from the dead so that he can decorate the persuader.

[memphis]

There's no way the GOP would give the Dems 50%. They want it all.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

There's no way the GOP would give the Dems 50%. They want it all.

And they're much better than the Dems at getting it.

[Marston]

There's no way the GOP would give the Dems 50%. They want it all.

And they're much better than the Dems at getting it.

[memphis]

There's no way the GOP would give the Dems 50%. They want it all.

And they're much better than the Dems at getting it.

No doubt about it. It's absurd how spineless and ineffective the Dems are.

[Bull Moose Base]

Lighting a candle in a box sounds dangerous.  Regardless what about this? We agree to cut 4.5 trillion dollars from debt in the 10 years between 2013-2023, with a half trillion job stimulus im effect now and no spending cuts or tax hikes go into effect before July 2013.  So net 4 trillion debt reducer (not counting the growth of the new job stimulus) Each side will be wholly responsible for their share of debt reduction: revenue or spending cuts, any way you like.  What share of the 4 trillion is each parties responsibility will be determined by their proportion of congressmen and senators in the 113th congress.  So in effect, the parties agree they can't agree on squat except a commitment to cut 4 trillion in 10 years, scored by CBO.  Baseline is Bush tax rates but no using war drawdown.  But to rule out counting war draw down Republicans have to issue a statement admitting they did the same thing in Ryan plan they're now criticizing Reid for and they apologize.  Let the American people decide how to cut their own debt.

[Torie]

That's about 50% revenue raisers in a way that Pubbies would not like and 50% spending cuts.  Er no. No! That is even more than Obama is asking for. No!

No, it needs to be about 2/3 spending cuts, and 1/3 revenue raisers that Pubbies would like - at a minimum. Either that, or the Dems need to take back the House, hold POTUS and the Senate, and get rid of filibusters. Come to think of that, why didn't they do all of that in January, 2009?  How time flies.

[Bull Moose Base]

I think Democrats should offer that and announce they'll do no more than 1/3 from revenue so that if the country elects 50% GOP it'll be 5/6 spending cuts and only 1/6 revenue.  Good luck!  Also Boehner has to do another primetime speech apologizing for his last one and admitting it was 5/6 fiction (I'm being generous.)

[Marston]

If I was a Democrat in Congress, I would try and get the GOP to sign onto the chained-CPI for the tax code. In exchange, I'd probably have to concede doing the same for Social Security COLA.

This would give Republican's cover in the sense that it's not a blatant, outright tax hike. The genius is it slowly pushes more and more American's into higher tax brackets via the lower measure for inflation. Plus few voters actually understand the concept of a chained-CPI so it's less likely to garner popular opposition. 

[BigSkyBob]

If I was a Democrat in Congress, I would try and get the GOP to sign onto the chained-CPI for the tax code. In exchange, I'd probably have to concede doing the same for Social Security COLA.

This would give Republican's cover in the sense that it's not a blatant, outright tax hike. The genius is it slowly pushes more and more American's into higher tax brackets via the lower measure for inflation. Plus few voters actually understand the concept of a chained-CPI so it's less likely to garner popular opposition. 

A stellar example of why the political class must be treated like cockroaches because they act like cockroaches.

[Torie]

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When Boehner and Obama were chatting about tax reform, now off the table, which is and of itself just so damning in so many ways, about our governance, they agreed to precisely that! And it is entirely appropriate, because the chained CPI is a more accurate measure of what it really costs to maintain one's standard of living, and thus more neutral. Thus it is just so sensible and obvious, but it died, because we are dysfunctional, and have deficits in far more than just money matters.  

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

If I was a Democrat in Congress, I would try and get the GOP to sign onto the chained-CPI for the tax code. In exchange, I'd probably have to concede doing the same for Social Security COLA.

This would give Republican's cover in the sense that it's not a blatant, outright tax hike. The genius is it slowly pushes more and more American's into higher tax brackets via the lower measure for inflation. Plus few voters actually understand the concept of a chained-CPI so it's less likely to garner popular opposition. 

A stellar example of why the political class must be treated like cockroaches because they act like cockroaches.

The political class will stop acting like cockroaches when the public stop acting like hyenas.

[BigSkyBob]

If I was a Democrat in Congress, I would try and get the GOP to sign onto the chained-CPI for the tax code. In exchange, I'd probably have to concede doing the same for Social Security COLA.

This would give Republican's cover in the sense that it's not a blatant, outright tax hike. The genius is it slowly pushes more and more American's into higher tax brackets via the lower measure for inflation. Plus few voters actually understand the concept of a chained-CPI so it's less likely to garner popular opposition. 

A stellar example of why the political class must be treated like cockroaches because they act like cockroaches.

The political class will stop acting like cockroaches when the public stop acting like hyenas.

Another stellar example of how much the political class overrates itself.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

If I was a Democrat in Congress, I would try and get the GOP to sign onto the chained-CPI for the tax code. In exchange, I'd probably have to concede doing the same for Social Security COLA.

This would give Republican's cover in the sense that it's not a blatant, outright tax hike. The genius is it slowly pushes more and more American's into higher tax brackets via the lower measure for inflation. Plus few voters actually understand the concept of a chained-CPI so it's less likely to garner popular opposition. 

A stellar example of why the political class must be treated like cockroaches because they act like cockroaches.

The political class will stop acting like cockroaches when the public stop acting like hyenas.

Another stellar example of how much the political class overrates itself.

I'm not a member of the political class, and I fully admit that people who are are despicable. I just think that most of the public is even more so.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Random sidenote, I'm sick of Republicans saying that the government needs to act more like an American household and live within it's means when their example is so awful. The average American lives under a mountain of debt that is worse than our government's debt to GDP ratio: