King County finds 561 new ballots - Gregorie wins Washington Recount

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

The election is WAY inside the margin of error.  There is NO way to reliably determine which candidate got the most votes.  At all.  In elections this close, you do a statewide machine recount, a statewide hand recount, certify the results and declare a winner.  Yeah, it's no better than flipping a coin, but at least you get a result that has something to do with a real, actual vote count. 

The alternative, this constant battle of "look, we found more votes, we win!  But we found votes for us, now we win!" solves absolutely nothing.  We are no closer to determining with any reliability who really won.

Nobody won.  It was a tie.  Stamp the results, swear someone in, and get on with life.

[Alcon]

I am a big believer in incompetence over conspiracy when delaing with politicians.  King county has had its problems:
In the first offical count they 'discovered' they had an extra 5000 ballots they had not reproted to the SOS on election night.
During the first machine recount, they inspected ballots by hand and, after devining voter intent, enhanced 350 undervotes to become votes.
Now during the manual recount they have 'discovered' errors in the first count and will 'amend' the first count (and add to the manual recount) 573 ballots (which they call 561 in their press release).
Given this level of incompetence the election board at King county should be fired

You must understand that King County is massive. Grays Harbor County screwed up nearly 30% of their votes; Benton about 10%. King County is much less than that.

But, still, fixing needs to be done.

[Nym90]

Does anyone have any proof that these 561 votes are invalid?

If not, why would one assume they must be?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If not, why would one assume they must be?

Because Democrats are all evil, evil commies

[minionofmidas]

The election is WAY inside the margin of error.  There is NO way to reliably determine which candidate got the most votes.  At all.  In elections this close, you do a statewide machine recount, a statewide hand recount, certify the results and declare a winner.  Yeah, it's no better than flipping a coin, but at least you get a result that has something to do with a real, actual vote count. 

The alternative, this constant battle of "look, we found more votes, we win!  But we found votes for us, now we win!" solves absolutely nothing.  We are no closer to determining with any reliability who really won.

Nobody won.  It was a tie.  Stamp the results, swear someone in, and get on with life.

How about: Stamp the results, swear noone in, and get on with life.
See if you really need a governor.

[stry_cat]

I am a big believer in incompetence over conspiracy when delaing with politicians. 

It doesn't matter if it is incompetence or corruption, it needs to stop.    However I think it is interesting that it is always Democratic counties that can't seem to count the votes right.  We saw this in Florida in 2000 and now we're seeing it in Washington state in 2004. 

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

Does anyone have any proof that these 561 votes are invalid?

If not, why would one assume they must be?

The question is not whether they are invalid.  The question is whether these 561 votes are given any greater consideration than votes anywhere else in the state.  Or whether this precint/county is given any greater consideration than the rest of the state.  If we have to scour King County to find these votes, shouldn't we apply equally close scrutiny to every county, and every precinct in the state?  I'm not saying I know the answer, but I think that's that quesion at hand.  Not one of validity.

[dca5347]

Vorlon why is this here instead of another part of the forum,I don't see what it has to do with 2004 presidential results ?

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

With respect to Cantwell, why do Republicans think Rossi would have a better chance of winning a Senate race in a Democratic state against a reasonably popular incumbent than an open seat Governor's race against someone who by all accounts ran a terrible campaign?

[A18]

I don't think he lost this election.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

well the original county had him winning by 42 votes. So if he can only beat someone who ran a terrible campaign by 42 votes for Governor, I don't see why he'd have a great chance against a reasonably popular incumbent for Senate (where voters are more partisan)

[CARLHAYDEN]

I don't think he lost this election.

Its time to face reality Phil.

Dean Logan has promised to 'run' as many ballots as it takes to make sure Gregoire 'wins.'

Remember Logan's maxim, 'it doesn't matter how the votes are cast, as long as Logan can count them' the way he wants them counted.

[A18]

What I meant is that I think he'll lose the election, but had the count been fair, he would have won.

[CARLHAYDEN]

You may be right.

[Alcon]

Alright Carl, Phil, I ask of you:

Give me one single iota of reasoning that it is unrealistic that King County would make mistakes when it is handling about 30% of the state's ballots (per population statistics) and other counties have screwed up even more ballots relative to the number they are dealing with.

[A18]

I was the first to admit they could be valid votes. But as a Republican, I must say it sounds suspicious.

[Alcon]

I was the first to admit they could be valid votes. But as a Republican, I must say it sounds suspicious.

I would say that if I was a partisan Republican too...but somehow I doubt the head of the community council screwed up...

[Huckleberry Finn]

Washington needs revoting not recount.

Seriously. Is there any constitutional base for a renewal round in these kind of messy situation?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Does anyone have any proof that these 561 votes are invalid?

If not, why would one assume they must be?

The question is not whether they are invalid.  The question is whether these 561 votes are given any greater consideration than votes anywhere else in the state.  Or whether this precint/county is given any greater consideration than the rest of the state.  If we have to scour King County to find these votes, shouldn't we apply equally close scrutiny to every county, and every precinct in the state?  I'm not saying I know the answer, but I think that's that quesion at hand.  Not one of validity.

The Democrats tried to apply equal standards, but some court rejected it. You can't blame the Democrats for different standards being applied.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Alright Carl, Phil, I ask of you:

Give me one single iota of reasoning that it is unrealistic that King County would make mistakes when it is handling about 30% of the state's ballots (per population statistics) and other counties have screwed up even more ballots relative to the number they are dealing with.

I remember how Dean counts votes.

Lived across the county border, but had to work in Seattle.

It is not suprising that after two counts of the votes (since they did not result in the election of Dean's preferred candidate) that more ballots would be 'found' by Dean to make up the difference.

I understand you 'trust' Dean because you know he's going to make sure that Gregoire gets enough votes.

But, try, just try for once to answer the question, why did it take three counts to 'find' these votes?

If Gregoire had won the either of the two earlier counts, would Dean be 'finding' more votes?

[zorkpolitics]

Just for the record the incompetence continues:
the 561 ballots found yesterday have now grown to 595 today as new ones were found in a closet, on a shelf, and inside of several voting machines.

As for counting actual votes, 35 of 39 counties completed and Rossi has a respectable net gain of 79.  Of course it is really meaningless once the newly approved ballots are counted in King.  Interestingly, the 595 just happen to represent the precincts in King county that Gregoire did better than the county average, so the 595 shoudl easliy deliver enough to overcome Rossi 121 vote lead.

[bgwah]

Just for the record the incompetence continues:
the 561 ballots found yesterday have now grown to 595 today as new ones were found in a closet, on a shelf, and inside of several voting machines.

As for counting actual votes, 35 of 39 counties completed and Rossi has a respectable net gain of 79.  Of course it is really meaningless once the newly approved ballots are counted in King.  Interestingly, the 595 just happen to represent the precincts in King county that Gregoire did better than the county average, so the 595 shoudl easliy deliver enough to overcome Rossi 121 vote lead.

71 votes?? Rossi must be cheating!

[CARLHAYDEN]

Just for the record the incompetence continues:
the 561 ballots found yesterday have now grown to 595 today as new ones were found in a closet, on a shelf, and inside of several voting machines.

As for counting actual votes, 35 of 39 counties completed and Rossi has a respectable net gain of 79.  Of course it is really meaningless once the newly approved ballots are counted in King.  Interestingly, the 595 just happen to represent the precincts in King county that Gregoire did better than the county average, so the 595 shoudl easliy deliver enough to overcome Rossi 121 vote lead.

I told everybody that Logan would 'find' as many votes as it takes to change the results.

And if you happen to believe that the 595 votes Logan says he has found now that "just happen to represent the precincts in King county that Gregoire did better that the county average," then I have a bridge in Lake Havasu to sell you real cheap.

[Alcon]

Just for the record the incompetence continues:
the 561 ballots found yesterday have now grown to 595 today as new ones were found in a closet, on a shelf, and inside of several voting machines.

As for counting actual votes, 35 of 39 counties completed and Rossi has a respectable net gain of 79.  Of course it is really meaningless once the newly approved ballots are counted in King.  Interestingly, the 595 just happen to represent the precincts in King county that Gregoire did better than the county average, so the 595 shoudl easliy deliver enough to overcome Rossi 121 vote lead.

I told everybody that Logan would 'find' as many votes as it takes to change the results.

And if you happen to believe that the 595 votes Logan says he has found now that "just happen to represent the precincts in King county that Gregoire did better that the county average," then I have a bridge in Lake Havasu to sell you real cheap.

It is not as if these precincts were 70%+ Gregoire, which is not all that hard to find, even in the rich suburbs. The precincts were only 4% above the county average, which is barely a huge difference.

[CARLHAYDEN]

If Logan 'finds' yet more votes for Gregoire, will you finally admit something is fishy there?