Markets not happy

[J. J.]

How bad is the stock market expected to be on Monday? I can't see investors buying stock when we've been downgraded for the first time ever.

Anyone taking his money out of US treasury bonds because of that (not sure anybody is that touchy, but hey) would likely put it into something else, right?

A few institutions have it in there rules that they must keep there funds, or a portion of them, in AAA instruments.  They will be moving out of US bonds.  They won't be moving it to stocks.  Conversely, these institutions, might consider US bonds as a non-AAA alternative, and may move some of their "stock money" into US bonds, with could effect stocks.

That is one of the structural changes.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

How bad is the stock market expected to be on Monday? I can't see investors buying stock when we've been downgraded for the first time ever.

Anyone taking his money out of US treasury bonds because of that (not sure anybody is that touchy, but hey) would likely put it into something else, right?

A few institutions have it in there rules that they must keep there funds, or a portion of them, in AAA instruments.  They will be moving out of US bonds.  They won't be moving it to stocks.  Conversely, these institutions, might consider US bonds as a non-AAA alternative, and may move some of their "stock money" into US bonds, with could effect stocks.

That is one of the structural changes.

With only one of the three major rating firms having downgraded the US so far, I doubt we'll see a rush out of Treasuries because of rules.  Still, I expect T-bill yields will go up sharply Monday followed by some degree of bounce back. Even with a weekend to digest what S&P did, I expect an overcorrection.

[J. J.]

How bad is the stock market expected to be on Monday? I can't see investors buying stock when we've been downgraded for the first time ever.

Anyone taking his money out of US treasury bonds because of that (not sure anybody is that touchy, but hey) would likely put it into something else, right?

A few institutions have it in there rules that they must keep there funds, or a portion of them, in AAA instruments.  They will be moving out of US bonds.  They won't be moving it to stocks.  Conversely, these institutions, might consider US bonds as a non-AAA alternative, and may move some of their "stock money" into US bonds, with could effect stocks.

That is one of the structural changes.

With only one of the three major rating firms having downgraded the US so far, I doubt we'll see a rush out of Treasuries because of rules.  Still, I expect T-bill yields will go up sharply Monday followed by some degree of bounce back. Even with a weekend to digest what S&P did, I expect an overcorrection.

S & P is still the one most everyone has heard about over the years.

On the whole, I still hold to my gold prediction, but I'd expect a spike in prices (followed by a roll back, though still higher).

I'm also worried about the possibility of Moody's and Fitch lowering the rating in a few weeks or months.

[J. J.]

How bad is the stock market expected to be on Monday? I can't see investors buying stock when we've been downgraded for the first time ever.

Anyone taking his money out of US treasury bonds because of that (not sure anybody is that touchy, but hey) would likely put it into something else, right?

A few institutions have it in there rules that they must keep there funds, or a portion of them, in AAA instruments.  They will be moving out of US bonds.  They won't be moving it to stocks.  Conversely, these institutions, might consider US bonds as a non-AAA alternative, and may move some of their "stock money" into US bonds, with could effect stocks.

That is one of the structural changes.

With only one of the three major rating firms having downgraded the US so far, I doubt we'll see a rush out of Treasuries because of rules.  Still, I expect T-bill yields will go up sharply Monday followed by some degree of bounce back. Even with a weekend to digest what S&P did, I expect an overcorrection.

S & P is still the one most everyone has heard about over the years.

On the whole, I still hold to my gold prediction, but I'd expect a spike in prices (followed by a roll back, though still higher).

I'm also worried about the possibility of Moody's and Fitch lowering the rating in a few weeks or months.

Nope.  You're wrong.

S&P and Moody's are the two largest bond rating agencies.  Finch is second to those two.  The rest don't matter.

The one most people have "heard" of is S & P, largely through their stock index.  Had it been Moody's or Fitch, it might not have been so bad.

So Link, you are still wrong and still a troll.

[J. J.]

How bad is the stock market expected to be on Monday? I can't see investors buying stock when we've been downgraded for the first time ever.

Anyone taking his money out of US treasury bonds because of that (not sure anybody is that touchy, but hey) would likely put it into something else, right?

A few institutions have it in there rules that they must keep there funds, or a portion of them, in AAA instruments.  They will be moving out of US bonds.  They won't be moving it to stocks.  Conversely, these institutions, might consider US bonds as a non-AAA alternative, and may move some of their "stock money" into US bonds, with could effect stocks.

That is one of the structural changes.

First of all the US has a split credit rating with the majority of the major credit rating agencies rating it AAA.  There may be a very small universe of funds that require all three credit ratings agencies to rate the US bonds AAA.  The majority of funds don't function this way.

Even a minority will effect the market.

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Only in troll-land.

[Middle-aged Europe]

I kind of like the picture on the tagesschau.de news site. Very Creative.



(Notice the stars the stars in the background. )

[J. J.]

How bad is the stock market expected to be on Monday? I can't see investors buying stock when we've been downgraded for the first time ever.

Anyone taking his money out of US treasury bonds because of that (not sure anybody is that touchy, but hey) would likely put it into something else, right?

A few institutions have it in there rules that they must keep there funds, or a portion of them, in AAA instruments.  They will be moving out of US bonds.  They won't be moving it to stocks.  Conversely, these institutions, might consider US bonds as a non-AAA alternative, and may move some of their "stock money" into US bonds, with could effect stocks.

That is one of the structural changes.

With only one of the three major rating firms having downgraded the US so far, I doubt we'll see a rush out of Treasuries because of rules.  Still, I expect T-bill yields will go up sharply Monday followed by some degree of bounce back. Even with a weekend to digest what S&P did, I expect an overcorrection.

S & P is still the one most everyone has heard about over the years.

On the whole, I still hold to my gold prediction, but I'd expect a spike in prices (followed by a roll back, though still higher).

I'm also worried about the possibility of Moody's and Fitch lowering the rating in a few weeks or months.

Nope.  You're wrong.

S&P and Moody's are the two largest bond rating agencies.  Finch is second to those two.  The rest don't matter.

The one most people have "heard" of is S & P, largely through their stock index.  Had it been Moody's or Fitch, it might not have been so bad.

So Link, you are still wrong and still a troll.

Wrong again.

"Most people" don't move the bond market.  You're talking about the retail investor or man on the street.  I don't base my investment strategies on the opinion of the mindless masses.  Bond professionals do NOT value S&P's opinion over Moody's.  Frankly I've never heard of ANYONE saying one was more reliable or better known than the other.  Where do you get this stuff?  I think someone has a partisan agenda.

What do you guys think?

Most people do move the markets; much of it based on psychology.  Standard and Poor is a better known brand name. 

Were is this Troll-land where you sell houses?

[J. J.]

Dow Futures down 272 points.

[J. J.]

Dow Futures down 272 points.

Now down only 246 points.

[J. J.]

Dow Futures down 272 points.

Now down only 246 points.

It's all over the place, but it looks like it's settling down 200-250.

[J. J.]

Nikkei down over 1.5%.

[J. J.]

Dow Futures were only down by 189, but they fluctuations.  A decrease in value could be expected, but not a crash.   Nikkei down 1.1%

[Ban my account ffs!]

How bad is the stock market expected to be on Monday? I can't see investors buying stock when we've been downgraded for the first time ever.

Anyone taking his money out of US treasury bonds because of that (not sure anybody is that touchy, but hey) would likely put it into something else, right?

A few institutions have it in there rules that they must keep there funds, or a portion of them, in AAA instruments.  They will be moving out of US bonds.  They won't be moving it to stocks.  Conversely, these institutions, might consider US bonds as a non-AAA alternative, and may move some of their "stock money" into US bonds, with could effect stocks.

That is one of the structural changes.

With only one of the three major rating firms having downgraded the US so far, I doubt we'll see a rush out of Treasuries because of rules.  Still, I expect T-bill yields will go up sharply Monday followed by some degree of bounce back. Even with a weekend to digest what S&P did, I expect an overcorrection.

S & P is still the one most everyone has heard about over the years.

On the whole, I still hold to my gold prediction, but I'd expect a spike in prices (followed by a roll back, though still higher).

I'm also worried about the possibility of Moody's and Fitch lowering the rating in a few weeks or months.

Nope.  You're wrong.

S&P and Moody's are the two largest bond rating agencies.  Finch is second to those two.  The rest don't matter.

I was only vaguely aware of S&P as a bond rating agency.  I was more aware of Moody's.  And given S&Ps track record in the past 4 years... if Moody's still keeps us at AAA, I'm not going to panic.  (I wouldn't panic if Moody's downgraded us to AA+ either).

[J. J.]

I was only vaguely aware of S&P as a bond rating agency.  I was more aware of Moody's.  And given S&Ps track record in the past 4 years... if Moody's still keeps us at AAA, I'm not going to panic.  (I wouldn't panic if Moody's downgraded us to AA+ either).

S & P is a brand name, basically, largely because of the S & P Index.  I never said it was a better rating, just that more people have heard of it. 

I'm looking at foreign reaction.  Jakarta was way off.  Dow Futures are not way off, so far; neither is the Nikkei.  Gold, after solid gains, is now soaring in Asia to $1695, though I think it's a spike.

The markets, while not crashing are being impacted by S & P. 

[J. J.]

Nikkei now down 2%+.  Dow Futures at 239.  Gold hovering around $1699.

[Beet]

Holy sh**t the Seoul composite is falling off a cliff.

[J. J.]

Holy sh**t the Seoul composite is falling off a cliff.

Program trading.  Nikkei is down just over 2%. 

Gold has cleared $1700. Dow Futures down 268, but off max loss.

[Beet]

The Seoul composite just rallied 2% in 15 minutes, now it's only down 5.5%. This is the kind of day, day traders live for.
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHAAWWW!!!!!

[minionofmidas]

This is hilarious.  S&P "downgrades" US debt.  The market reacts by selling everything else and buying US treasuries!  Looks like no one is buying S&P's bunk. 

Yeah, my newspaper predicted that, too. And nope, it doesn't mean that "no one is buying S&P's bunk". It's just business as usual - when overall insecurity rises, securer stuff goes up. And US Treasury funds are securer than pretty much all stocks (or, well, anything but gold and a few European treasury funds), even at AA+.
Of course, what that says about the entire business of rating government bonds as such is... nothing new really. The whole thing is bunk(ish).

[J. J.]

I was only vaguely aware of S&P as a bond rating agency.  I was more aware of Moody's.  And given S&Ps track record in the past 4 years... if Moody's still keeps us at AAA, I'm not going to panic.  (I wouldn't panic if Moody's downgraded us to AA+ either).

S & P is a brand name, basically, largely because of the S & P Index.  I never said it was a better rating, just that more people have heard of it. 

So, we can safely assume you have no idea what you are talking about.

Nice of you to sit here posting random bits of information.  Earlier you seemed so eager to talk about the US' credit rating.  How come you haven't been posting the US Treasury prices?  Is it because they have been rallying since the "downgrade"?

This is hilarious.  S&P "downgrades" US debt.  The market reacts by selling everything else and buying US treasuries!  Looks like no one is buying S&P's bunk. 

Good job.  Keep up the cherry picked Glenn Beck Goldline financial report.  I'm dying laughing at you and S&P.

Wall Street Journal headline:  10-Year US Treasury Yield Lower Than Prior To S&P Downgrade

Because, right now, I'm looking at effect on the overall economy (and the effect on gold/silver, but I follow those).

Moody's just said that they might consider a downgrade by 2013.  Fitch is still reviewing.

I think you can see the effect, well, maybe not in Troll-land.

[Beet]

I think this video aptly sums up the condition.

As does this video.

Viva la revolucion!

[Beet]

Hang on to your jewelry ladies!

Obama in 6....

[J. J.]

I was only vaguely aware of S&P as a bond rating agency.  I was more aware of Moody's.  And given S&Ps track record in the past 4 years... if Moody's still keeps us at AAA, I'm not going to panic.  (I wouldn't panic if Moody's downgraded us to AA+ either).

S & P is a brand name, basically, largely because of the S & P Index.  I never said it was a better rating, just that more people have heard of it. 

So, we can safely assume you have no idea what you are talking about.

Nice of you to sit here posting random bits of information.  Earlier you seemed so eager to talk about the US' credit rating.  How come you haven't been posting the US Treasury prices?  Is it because they have been rallying since the "downgrade"?

This is hilarious.  S&P "downgrades" US debt.  The market reacts by selling everything else and buying US treasuries!  Looks like no one is buying S&P's bunk. 

Good job.  Keep up the cherry picked Glenn Beck Goldline financial report.  I'm dying laughing at you and S&P.

Wall Street Journal headline:  10-Year US Treasury Yield Lower Than Prior To S&P Downgrade

Because, right now, I'm looking at effect on the overall economy (and the effect on gold/silver, but I follow those).

Moody's just said that they might consider a downgrade by 2013.  Fitch is still reviewing.

I think you can see the effect, well, maybe not in Troll-land.

Sure.  Sure.  Right.  Oh, I see.  You are following the effect of the US Credit downgrade on every asset other than the one the credit rating is actually talking about.  Ok  You're right.  That makes perfect logical sense.  I guess Reuter's is reporting in "Troll-land" too.

Rush into Treasuries after U.S. downgrade

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That you are so far out of touch with the issues is hilarious.  This has not too much to do with bond ratings but with the economy overall.

People are voting with their money, and they are saying gold.

[Beet]

Obama refused to attack the ratings agencies. Got his nose stuck in the clouds again. The American people are hurting! And the following people are laughing at the minstrel show:

Mr. Harold McGraw III, 62
Chairman, Chief Exec. Officer, Pres and Chairman of Exec. Committee   N/A   N/A
Mr. Jack F. Callahan Jr., 52
Chief Financial Officer and Exec. VP   N/A   N/A
Mr. Kenneth M. Vittor , 61
Exec. VP and Gen. Counsel   N/A   N/A
Mr. Charles L. Teschner Jr., 50
Exec. VP of Global Strategy   N/A   N/A
Mr. Robert J. Bahash , 65
Pres of McGraw Hill Education, Inc.   N/A   N/A

Obama needs a good f--king kick in the teeth and a beating until he learns how to fight.

[opebo]

Obama refused to attack the ratings agencies. Got his nose stuck in the clouds again. The American people are hurting! And the following people are laughing at the minstrel show:

Mr. Harold McGraw III, 62
Chairman, Chief Exec. Officer, Pres and Chairman of Exec. Committee   N/A   N/A
Mr. Jack F. Callahan Jr., 52
Chief Financial Officer and Exec. VP   N/A   N/A
Mr. Kenneth M. Vittor , 61
Exec. VP and Gen. Counsel   N/A   N/A
Mr. Charles L. Teschner Jr., 50
Exec. VP of Global Strategy   N/A   N/A
Mr. Robert J. Bahash , 65
Pres of McGraw Hill Education, Inc.   N/A   N/A

Obama needs a good f--king kick in the teeth and a beating until he learns how to fight.

I have no idea who are those people you listed, but Obama should certainly send the secret agents around to assassinate those on the S&P board who voted for the downgrade.  Of course while he's at it they should probably do the same with those who caused the grounds for the downgrade in the first place.