Markets not happy

[Beet]

Obama refused to attack the ratings agencies. Got his nose stuck in the clouds again. The American people are hurting! And the following people are laughing at the minstrel show:

Mr. Harold McGraw III, 62
Chairman, Chief Exec. Officer, Pres and Chairman of Exec. Committee   N/A   N/A
Mr. Jack F. Callahan Jr., 52
Chief Financial Officer and Exec. VP   N/A   N/A
Mr. Kenneth M. Vittor , 61
Exec. VP and Gen. Counsel   N/A   N/A
Mr. Charles L. Teschner Jr., 50
Exec. VP of Global Strategy   N/A   N/A
Mr. Robert J. Bahash , 65
Pres of McGraw Hill Education, Inc.   N/A   N/A

Obama needs a good f--king kick in the teeth and a beating until he learns how to fight.

I have no idea who are those people you listed, but Obama should certainly send the secret agents around to assassinate those on the S&P board who voted for the downgrade.  Of course while he's at it they should probably do the same with those who caused the grounds for the downgrade in the first place.

It's certainly not easy to find a more deserving bunch. These whiny little titty babies will roll over and bawl at the first sign of spine:

"S&P, which along with other rating agencies has been strongly criticised in Europe for downgrading countries such as Greece, said in a statement it believed the Trani inquiry "has no foundation". It added: "We shall strenuously defend our work, our reputation and that of our analysts."

Moody's said it took "its responsibilities surrounding the dissemination of market-sensitive information very seriously", and was co-operating with the authorities."

"http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/04/police-raid-milan-moodys-standard-poors

That's right, make them defend it.

[J. J.]

They will be moving out of US bonds. 

Here is I really said:

A few institutions have it in there rules that they must keep there funds, or a portion of them, in AAA instruments.  They will be moving out of US bonds.  They won't be moving it to stocks.  Conversely, these institutions, might consider US bonds as a non-AAA alternative, and may move some of their "stock money" into US bonds, with could effect stocks.

That is one of the structural changes.

How is your stock market doing in Troll-land, Link?  Here it isn't doing too well.

[bgwah]

Link, I like your posting style.

[J. J.]

And the Dow closed down by 632 634 and below 11,000. 

Poor link does not understand that the bond value has very little to do with the economy.  Treasury yields are still safer, but they are not safe.

Gold, BTW, currently is at 1713.

Welcome to the second dip of the recession.

[J. J.]

Now about gold.  I can buy a 10 year US bond and keep it under my mattress.  I KNOW in ten years it will be worth $1000 plus interest.  Guaranteed.  Now if you buy $1000 worth of gold today are you 100% certain it will be worth $1000 plus interest 10 years from now?  No of course not.  Gold is for people that like to speculate.  US Treasuries are for people that like to invest.  There is a difference.  A big difference.

But you don't know how much that $1000 plus interest will be worth.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Sure you do.  Here is a whole bunch:  http://www.goldinmind.com/gold-updates-news/gold-price-forecasts.html  Most are very conservative and gold has exceeded predictions for 2011, in most cases.

I'm holding with mine, though today it looks exceptionally pessimistic.

[J. J.]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Sure you do.  Here is a whole bunch:  http://www.goldinmind.com/gold-updates-news/gold-price-forecasts.html  Most are very conservative and gold has exceeded predictions for 2011, in most cases.

I'm holding with mine, though today it looks exceptionally pessimistic.

So you are ignoring all those sell recommendations.  My point exactly.  You aren't calling a market top.  You'll hold it for a loss like everyone else.  Thanks for proving my point.

No, I've actually said that if you are looking for a long term investment, more than a year, you should not buy.  I have not though gold was at the high point as of yet and will top off above $2000, probably between February and April of next year.  If I held gold, I would be looking to sell in early 2012.

I expect there to be a lot of profit takers in the market in February.

If someone would offer me five ounces of gold at January 5, 2011 prices to be delivered a year from today, I'd jump on it.

[J. J.]

Dow Futures now down 255.  It looks like we might be in for another sell off.

[J. J.]

Dow Futures now down 255.  It looks like we might be in for another sell off.

Now down 155, so there is improvement.

[Beet]

Dow exploded 430 at the very end of the day.

The Fed announcement was actually a dud. All they said was they'd hold interest rates where they are now.

[J. J.]

Dow Futures now down 255.  It looks like we might be in for another sell off.

Man pin drop quiet on this thread today.  I kept rushing back to the computer to see if I missed anymore of the play by play.  Interesting.  No J.J. posts today... Hhhmmm.

Ah, you missed one from last night.

Dow Futures now down 255.  It looks like we might be in for another sell off.

Now down 155, so there is improvement.

I'm just reporting it.  Of course, we're still down by about 200 points, and gold is still moving up (though off its highs).

[J. J.]

I'm just reporting it.  Of course, we're still down by about 200 points, and gold is still moving up (though off its highs).

Oh, whew.  There you are.  I was beginning to suspect foul play.

Because I'm primarily looking at gold.

Bonds were down, right?

[CARLHAYDEN]

As I noted some time ago, the stock market is NOT a good investment under current financial circumstances.

I went with the Loonie (the Canadian Dollar) which has appreciated from approximately $0.78 US when Obama took office to approximately $1.02 US today.

Also recommend the Aussie (the Australian Dollar) which has appreciated from approximately $0.63 when Obama took office to approximately $1.05 US today.

So, when did you actually put these trades on?  What day?  I can't wait to hear the answer.

Sorry, but I don't divulge specific information on my transactions.

If you look back (see you're new here) you will find that I had a long series of posts on this approximately a year ago.

I saw what you did there.

That's pretty much what I figured.  Well really I figured you didn't buy anything you just looked up some exchange rates to take some political shots at Obama.  You're financial recommendations would be a lot more credible if they weren't such obvious partisan contrivances.  You do realize the Canadian dollar has been appreciating since Bush took office.  Interesting that you arbitrarily picked the Obama inauguration.

Ten years ago (July of 2001), there were 1.53 Canadian dollars to a US dollar.  That is as far back as the data is available. http://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/exchange/monthly-average-lookup/

On December, 2008, there were 1.22 Canadian dollars to a US dollar.

As of  July of 2011, there were approximately 0.96 Canadian dollars to a US dollar.

So under Bush, there was a reduction in the value of the US dollar relative to the Canadian dollar of approximately of approximately 20%, over a period of approximately seven  and a half years.

Under Obama, there was a reduction in the value of the US dollar relative to the Canadian collar of approximately 21% over a period of approximately two and a half years.

Oh, and before you became a poster here, I noted the upsurge in the value of commodities, especially copper and cotton.

[J. J.]

Down again today.  I'd expect the Dow to be volatile for a while and at some point this year drop below 10,000.

[J. J.]

Down again today.  I'd expect the Dow to be volatile for a while and at some point this year drop below 10,000.

Thanks for the update.  What are US Treasuries doing after the S&P downgrade?

Really not important since we know where the money is coming from; the Dow is off 520 and gold is continuing to soar.

In all fairness, it is only down about 700 for the week.

[J. J.]

Down again today.  I'd expect the Dow to be volatile for a while and at some point this year drop below 10,000.

Thanks for the update.  What are US Treasuries doing after the S&P downgrade?

Really not important since we know where the money is coming from; the Dow is off 520 and gold is continuing to soar.

In all fairness, it is only down about 700 for the week.

Really not important?!  Yesterday you were curious what they were doing.  I wonder why you don't want to look at them anymore?  Hhhhmmm...

Bonds were down, right?

Not really important.  Money is leaving the stock market here; I don't know about troll-land.  We're seeing capital leave.  Long term, that is not good for the market and the economy.

Investors are moving their money into safer investments, bonds and gold. 

[Sbane]

Are US stock markets doing worse than the world average, JJ?
 

[phk]

Look at the sea of red there.

[J. J.]

Are US stock markets doing worse than the world average, JJ?
 

I'd have to look, but I don't think so.  I'm sure it is better than some.  The problem is, a lot of them are reflective.  After this crisis, that might not be the case.

Gold is the current indicator of international uncertainty.

[J. J.]

In some good news Dow Futures are only off 24.

[J. J.]

Now Dow Futures up 85. 

[J. J.]

Dow now up 145.

[phk]

@Sbane

[phk]

Are US stock markets doing worse than the world average, JJ?
 

I'd have to look, but I don't think so.  I'm sure it is better than some.  The problem is, a lot of them are reflective.  After this crisis, that might not be the case.

Gold is the current indicator of international uncertainty.

[J. J.]

Well, Futures were up. 

[J. J.]

Well back up, a bit, at 57.