Rick Santorum: Education turns US students into Communists !

[Tender Branson]

During a stop in Iowa on Thursday, Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum said that "schools indoctrinate our children," the Des Moines Register reports.

“You wonder why young people can vote and flock for a guy like Barack Obama and say, if you look at the surveys, that socialism is better than capitalism -- well, that’s because they don’t understand America,” he explained, according to the Register. “I said ‘indoctrination’ and I meant it," he said.

Santorum argued that the country's education system is leaving students with an insufficient grasp of history. His remarks come with the widely-anticipated Ames Straw poll -- a table-setter event for next year's Iowa caucuses -- less than two weeks away.

"I think it would be great to finish in the top half," Santorum said ahead of the straw poll, Iowa-based station KTIV reports. "I think that would surprise a lot of people." According to the local outlet, the GOP contender predicted he could defeat Obama in a general election match-up should he win the Republican presidential nomination.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/05/rick-santorum-iowa-2012_n_919266.html

He also has a new ad out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qKjUuETMkdA

[Tender Branson]

Said Rick:

“Sixty-two percent of incoming freshmen come into college with a faith conviction and leave without it. … I suspect if you took a control group of kids who don’t go to college, that doesn’t happen.”

“We see this humanism and secularism being pushed on our children,” said Santorum, who, with his wife, Karen, has been home-schooling their seven children through about eighth grade.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I heart Fundies.

[Torie]

Actually, Rick has a point. The U of C when I was there was about 40% Jewish, 40% Catholic, and 20% WASP. (Yes, I was a minority. ).  A considerable percentage of the Catholics had a crisis of faith issue in their Freshman year, when they decided that they just weren't leap of faith types (and of course were not following any of the Catholic rules about sex).  (The Jews and the Prots of the ilk that went to the U of C of course don't think much about religion really.)  

So, yes, faith tends to dissipate in college, but it has nothing to do with what is "taught," and everything about just the overall ambiance, and living at home alone, and that reasoned argument is the only thing really that gets one very far in one's college endeavors.

[Jacobtm]

Living with parents who indoctrinate you with religion leads you to be religious.

If we only taught kids things that actually happened, do you think they'd be religious? Nope.

If the experience of getting out of your hometown for a few years and hearing about different viewpoints is enough to shake your faith, well good, that means that you still have a mind that works.

[TJ in Oregon]

I don't buy the idea that the loss of faith on college campuses is just a result of a critical analysis of one's beliefs and exposure to new ideas. I think alcohol, followed, by sex, possibly followed by other mind altering substances has much more to do with it.  I have a weird perspective on this because I spent four years in a tight-knit community (my college cross-country team) where I'd go to every party but never drink. My perspective is a little weird because no one else seems to stay in the category I've placed myself in for very long; they tend to either stay home or start drinking. (For the record, I’m not anti-alcohol, just anti-drunkenness and anti-breaking the law. I do occasionally have a drink of something in other settings.)

I've seen plenty of people come into college with strict religious beliefs and often but not always some sort of initial repulsion to drinking. Eventually most people will take a drink and start to notice they haven’t been struck by lightning yet. So, they slowly (or in some cases not so slowly) start to get drunk every time there’s a party. Some travel toward the alcoholic direction, but more often sex becomes the more prominent next step. And once people do that, they start to be in a pretty serious conflict with their alleged beliefs. I’m told sex/drunkenness are a lot of fun and I tend to believe it, so it’s not much of a surprise which one wins more often than not. Guilt and repentance aren’t really enjoyable or popular ideas so at the critical early moments before a person’s beliefs have really changed, they are more afraid of and dreading considering where God fits in all of this. Over time, people tend to question what is really wrong with sex to begin with and that usually seems to be the defining issue. For some, this is accompanied by anger at the religious establishment for trying to ‘control’ their lives. I don’t think people just wake up one day and decided to become atheists; it’s something that happens from a long time of cold indifference.

[TJ in Oregon]

...Oh and I think the socialism thing is sort of a straw man argument.

[anvi]

That's an excellent, and very honest, description, TJ, and I think it's spot-on in very many cases for college students. 

[Torie]

Interesting perspective TJ.  I never thought before about alcohol being the first step towards atheism. But then my atheism preceded booze so perhaps I may be forgiven for that.    

But don't you think kids who were were not much into booze were in general screwing too (with screwing leading to having  an issue with religion and so forth)?  Where did you go to college if I may ask?

[Penelope]

Interesting perspective TJ.  I never thought before about alcohol being the first step towards atheism. But then my atheism preceded booze so perhaps I may be forgiven for that.    

But don't you think kids who were were not much into booze were in general screwing too (with screwing leading to having  an issue with religion and so forth)?  Where did you go to college if I may ask?

I've found that my atheism was induced by natural skepticism and thought, but okay.

[Mercenary]

College is a breeding ground for vices. Naturally when one partakes in many vices they will turn against that which forbids said vices.

It is all about the desire for instant gratification. A vice offers an instant temporary pleasure, which a virtue may not. It is the easy path. It is no wonder people take it, especially when placed in an environment where exposure to such vices like alcohol, casual sex, and drugs is constant. I don't really think the rejection of religion has to do much with faith so much as just rebelling against the values associated with it.

It isn't really the education, but the entire environment they are in.
I doubt you'd see the same shift in people who took online/distant education, despite getting the same/similar lectures.

As for me. Well college would have had little impact on any religion if I had had any at that point, I actually became agnostic some time in my early teens. I maintained my same values from the religion I was raised in though, so the vices wouldn't have been there to question faith. In my case it was simple skepticism. So that happens too, but I don't think that is why it is so common in college.

[anvi]

I started drinking before I became an atheist, but the latter was not because of the former, but more because of learning and people I interacted with and thinking seriously about my own convictions and experience.  But I think what TJ is describing, if I may venture some support for his description, is a process where young people slowly drift away from religious commitments in the living environment of a college campus.  That drift might reverse itself later and they may return to a stronger religious affiliation after entering into a family and raising kids, or they might just stay vaguely secular.  But I do think that the number of college students who just slowly drift away from religious commitments they may have grown up with as a result of the general environment of college life is far greater than the number of students who become atheists because of serious reflection or class content.  The later group is not a null set, by any means, but it's a smaller group than the former.  It should be said that there are also lots of students who remain very religious all through college and after.  But it seems to me that what TJ is saying represents the experience of lots of college students nowadays.  

[Bluegrassball]

Hide za children, science is coming!!

[Yelnoc]

I've found that my atheism was induced by natural skepticism and thought, but okay.

Mine too, though I can see where TJ is coming from.

Heh, with that statement did I just render myself de facto ineligible to hold office in the US?

[Torie]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Exactly.  And that is particularly true when kids who are religious or somewhat religious go to a college with a secular culture, where the majority of students are not particularly religious. The U of C was certainly like that.

[TJ in Oregon]

I do think that the sex issue can come up either before or without alcohol as well but in my personal opinion that happens less often. There certainly are individuals who take quite a variety of different paths from religion to lack thereof. I also think that the students who take other paths than the one I outlined are less likely to have been particularly religous in the first place. I do think that, as a few people have already pointed out, that people who are 'natural skeptics' tend to start having that opinion at a younger age than college unless they had an incredibly sheltered upbringing (I went to a public high school, and even though it was in a culturally conservative area, I was exposed to other ideas. So college wasn't new for me there and I tend to think most people are in the same boat).

Part of this may be that I went to an engineering school, so the vast majority of my classes don't really involve discussion of religion. I know there are some physics types that will swear to no end that religion is completely incompatible with science or something of the like, but most in the scientific community just ignore the whole issue altogether. When I'm learning about thermodynamics or how to design a distillation column, personal thoughts on religion don't tend to come up much.

I went to Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio. It's primarily a medical/engineering school though it does have some humanities as well. It's not an especially liberal school as far as colleges go and not really a party school either, but liberals certainly outnumber conservatives by a considerable margin.

[California8429]

Actually yes. Freshman year of high school in my English class the only way to get an A on an assignment concerning how to "solve racism" was state the answer was some form of socialism.

[Yelnoc]

Actually yes. Freshman year of high school in my English class the only way to get an A on an assignment concerning how to "solve racism" was state the answer was some form of socialism.

Really?  That's a bizarre experience.  Did you report it to the administration?

High school teachers generally try to be as neutral as possible; they don't have nearly as much a free hand as the professors Santorum refers to.

[mondale84]

Said Rick:

“Sixty-two percent of incoming freshmen come into college with a faith conviction and leave without it. … I suspect if you took a control group of kids who don’t go to college, that doesn’t happen.”

...with respect to Santi...where does he get these numbers??? Does he just make them up???

I generally agree with what is being said. Though I think that living on your own (at school) and not being made to go to church every Sunday has something to do with the fact that kids are less involved in faith. Certainly kids nowadays are more prone to challenge religious beliefs because a lot more kids are doing the same thing and are becoming atheist, agnostic, etc. Also, a lot of younger parents are bringing up kids in more secular households thus reducing the number of kids who grow up in strict faith....

[All Along The Watchtower]

in before Phil.

[Simfan34]

There's a bit of truth to what he is saying. The left-wing bent of higher education institutions is well known. His fundamentals are correct, he just manages to make himself sound like a fundamentalist.

However he needs to realize this whole college "atheist socialist hedonist" thing, for many, is a phase. Otherwise we'd see that in the polls and the census. It's very much tied to the "crisis of faith" TJ talks about prompted by sex and drinking. It's a bit sad though... loosing your faith because you want to have sex or drink. Oh well. It's a phase. I won't go through it.

Actually yes. Freshman year of high school in my English class the only way to get an A on an assignment concerning how to "solve racism" was state the answer was some form of socialism.

In the seventh grade, I was a pinko islamofascist. For an assignment we had to basically conceive a paradise. While everyone chose some kind of world where you had nothing to do, I wrote about turning Sint Maarten into some kind of country- called Jannah, the Arabic word for paradise- where everyone had the same houses, maximum wages, and excessive environmental regulation. I believe that I used "Arbeit Macht Frei" in some positive context as well. Regrettably (or thankfully?) I have lost that project.

[Landslide Lyndon]

I expect Inks coming here and explaining how Republicans aren't anti-intellectuals at all.

[Holmes]

It's not the higher education institutions that "lean left". Some professors just like to recite left-wing talking points during lectures. But it's not just professors who are teach in the humanities, or sociology or politics. I had a right-wing chemistry teacher once, amusingly enough. They just like to run their mouth and be heard.

[Simfan34]

I expect Inks coming here and explaining how Republicans aren't anti-intellectuals at all.

Not all of us are.

It's not the higher education institutions that "lean left". Some professors just like to recite left-wing talking points during lectures. But it's not just professors who are teach in the humanities, or sociology or politics. I had a right-wing chemistry teacher once, amusingly enough. They just like to run their mouth and be heard.

But they do, and have for many years. God and Man at Yale was written sixty years ago. Many, many people have come and again mentioned this. Sure, the university does not plan pogroms against conservatives. But the faculties are widely liberal, this is not deniable. I've experienced it first hand at many universities.

[pbrower2a]

Santorum is a hack who knows nothing about education. His politics depend upon reciting pre-packaged 'talking points' and makes the mistake of believing that those talking points have any intellectual basis worthy of expounding as great and undeniable truth.