US Stocks Down 15% in 2 Weeks

[opebo]

The veto would have led to precisely the same collapse.  The only way to avoid the depression was for the Republican congress to raise taxes upon the rich.

So Obama had the power, but lacked the leadership to use it.

No, he had no power at all.  He could accept the House's madness, and have a depression, or veto and have a depression.  It is the same either way.  He had no power at all to change anything.

Yes, there are two things, in tandem, to solve the fiscal problem, cut spending and raise revenue.

Actually a more responsible economic program - and one which would have lead to a more secure AAA rating - would be to increase both spending and taxation.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

You have enough structural problems to bring down "the system".

Oil has finally given up the ghost -- $76.

Oil is basically what drove us to this point.  Expensive oil, consumer spending is lackluster... so companies don't stock up on stuff and are reluctant to hire...

Oil will crash... the economy will start to mend slowly.  And then as soon as the economy shows signs of growing again (albeit from a lower position than we are now), oil will spike again.  And the process repeats itself.

Wow, you are very off-base.  We are at this point because of poor government policy (neo-liberalism).

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Regardless of whether or not one thinks the root cause of all the problems in the American economy is Neo-Liberalism, it doesn't change the impact which oil prices have on the economy and the thus need to do something to diversify, achive energy independence, or whatever you want to call it.

[BigSkyBob]

The President never has any role in legislation, J.J. - he's from the executive branch you see.  The Legislative Branch is the Congress.

Ever hear of a veto?

The veto would have led to precisely the same collapse.  The only way to avoid the depression was for the Republican congress to raise taxes upon the rich.

No, that would be merely an attempt to redouble upon a failed policy.

[BigSkyBob]

The veto would have led to precisely the same collapse.  The only way to avoid the depression was for the Republican congress to raise taxes upon the rich.

So Obama had the power, but lacked the leadership to use it.

No, he had no power at all.  He could accept the House's madness, and have a depression, or veto and have a depression.  It is the same either way.  He had no power at all to change anything.

Yes, there are two things, in tandem, to solve the fiscal problem, cut spending and raise revenue.

Actually a more responsible economic program - and one which would have lead to a more secure AAA rating - would be to increase both spending and taxation.

This is why the present situation exists. Democrats aren't talking about a "balance" between taxes and so-called "cuts."  Their intention in raising taxes is to spend the money. That is why it is utterly pointless for Republicans to agree to any new taxes. They won't reduce the deficit. The Democrats would just spend the money, and point to the ballooning deficit to justify even more taxes [that will in turn be spent, ad infinitum.]

[J. J.]

The veto would have led to precisely the same collapse.  The only way to avoid the depression was for the Republican congress to raise taxes upon the rich.

So Obama had the power, but lacked the leadership to use it.

No, he had no power at all.  He could accept the House's madness, and have a depression, or veto and have a depression.  It is the same either way.  He had no power at all to change anything.

Yes, there are two things, in tandem, to solve the fiscal problem, cut spending and raise revenue.

Actually a more responsible economic program - and one which would have lead to a more secure AAA rating - would be to increase both spending and taxation.

You were not paying attention in class were you.  The spending was what lowered the rating.

[courts]

The veto would have led to precisely the same collapse.  The only way to avoid the depression was for the Republican congress to raise taxes upon the rich.

So Obama had the power, but lacked the leadership to use it.

No, he had no power at all.  He could accept the House's madness, and have a depression, or veto and have a depression.  It is the same either way.  He had no power at all to change anything.

Yes, there are two things, in tandem, to solve the fiscal problem, cut spending and raise revenue.

Actually a more responsible economic program - and one which would have lead to a more secure AAA rating - would be to increase both spending and taxation.

This is why the present situation exists. Democrats aren't talking about a "balance" between taxes and so-called "cuts."  Their intention in raising taxes is to spend the money. That is why it is utterly pointless for Republicans Conservatives to agree to any new taxes. They won't reduce the deficit. The Democrats politicians would just spend the money, and point to the ballooning deficit to justify even more taxes [that will in turn be spent, ad infinitum.]

[J. J.]

Regardless of whether or not one thinks the root cause of all the problems in the American economy is Neo-Liberalism, it doesn't change the impact which oil prices have on the economy and the thus need to do something to diversify, achive energy independence, or whatever you want to call it.

That would help, but oil is not the problem today.

[Lief 🗽]

Er... I seem to remember that the last time we raised taxes and thereafter had a surplus, the Republicans spent it all on wars and pointless tax cuts for the rich that have resulted in our current debt problems.

[J. J.]

Er... I seem to remember that the last time we raised taxes and thereafter had a surplus, the Republicans spent it all on wars and pointless tax cuts for the rich that have resulted in our current debt problems.

And then the Democrats borrowed and spent that it on a stimulus and the start of Obamacare.  We can see how well the stimulus is working from the title of the thread.

[Ebowed]

And then the Democrats borrowed and spent that it on a stimulus and the start of Obamacare.  We can see how well the stimulus is working from the title of the thread.

I don't understand why people are still talking about the stimulus as though it is relevant to the present economic situation.

You are right, though, it should have been about twice the size and consisting half of tax cuts and credits was a total joke.  No wonder it was ineffective.

[King]

I would like to add that there is a difference between US Stocks being down 15% and DJIA being down 15%.

[courts]

Er... I seem to remember that the last time we raised taxes and thereafter had a surplus, the Republicans spent it all on wars and pointless tax cuts for the rich that have resulted in our current debt problems.

You mean the last time the Republicans (and Clinton, but I repeat myself) stole from Social Security and called it a surplus.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I'm about at the point where I was in 2008 in that I usually avoid CNBC or any other financial news network during the day. As it stands, we will continue to see the market deteriorate as long as our fiscal state remains the same. There's no way we can actually grow our economy when 102% of our GDP is going to pay off the debt. The looming possibility that S&P downgrades our debt rating again will be another shock to the system.

If I was smart, I would've cashed out my stocks today, because this is probably the last time we'll see a rally like this in a while.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Well you can all quit freaking out about 1929 redux.

[BigSkyBob]

Well you can all quit freaking out about 1929 redux.

Then again, maybe not.

[Beet]

Its more like 1931 (CreditAnstalt) than 1929.

[Beet]

And technically, CreditAnstalt shares trading were just halted trading today, in the form of parent UniCredit!

[Beet]

LOL @ Capital One Financial (COF). Shares are up. It just went ex-dividend too!

[Beet]

LOL @ Swiss National Bank. Intervening in the markets again. They're almost as hyperactive as I am.

[opebo]

The spending was what lowered the rating.

No, it was the failure to increase taxes.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Dow Plunges another 500+ points today......glad I'm not retired.

[J. J.]

Dow Plunges another 500+ points today......glad I'm not retired.

It's down about 700 points for the week, which sounds a bit better.  It is just hugely volatile.

[rwoy]

John Boehner said he got 98% of what he wanted with the Debt Ceiling Deal.  Long story short, the Republican plans brought us to the blood letting of the last 2 weeks.

Obama was an idiot for trusting that the Republicans wouldn't trash the economy in an attempt to benefit themselves politically.  He should have linked the renewal of the Bush tax cuts back in December to raising the Debt Ceiling.

Long story short, Obama is a trusting fool who doesn't "get it".  Boehner and the Republicans are borderline traitors who were willing to drive us to a point where, during a time of war, we would be unable to pay our soldiers.

[BigSkyBob]

John Boehner said he got 98% of what he wanted with the Debt Ceiling Deal. 

Boehner may very well have gotten want he wanted: cover to screw deficit hawks, in general, and the Tea Party in particular. Deficit hawks, in general, and the Tea Party in particular got closer to 2% of what they want as opposed to 98%

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Our downgrade has everything to do with Obama massively increasing spending while cutting taxes.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Not true, but, why let minor details like facts get in the way of a good story?