MA: Amendment to the Mideast Abortion Statute II (Statute)

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

Hang on - I made a mistake and never brought the amendment to a vote.

The amendment is to remove the word incest.  This will be a 24-hour vote.  Members will vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN.

[ZuWo]

Aye on the amendment (I was confused myself at first because we didn't vote on the amendment but then I assumed that the amendment was automatically passed because no one objected)

[TJ in Wisco]

Aye

[MOPolitico]

Nay

[CathKhan]

Aye.

[afleitch]

Seems like a lot of effort being put in to legislate a 'trigger' bill.

[ZuWo]

Seems like a lot of effort being put in to legislate a 'trigger' bill.

This is not a trigger bill. Indeed, I said during the debate I would like to go further and outlaw abortions in every case but I understand that such a proposal would have a harder time being passed. Thus, I don't currently intend to propose another piece of legislation on the issue of abortion if this gets passed and can be ratified. (Actually, I originally said the "rape issue" can be handled at a later point in time but, in hindsight, that was probably mere wishful thinking).

[afleitch]

Seems like a lot of effort being put in to legislate a 'trigger' bill.

This is not a trigger bill. Indeed, I said during the debate I would like to go further and outlaw abortions in every case but I understand that such a proposal would have a harder time being passed. Thus, I don't currently intend to propose another piece of legislation on the issue of abortion if this gets passed and can be ratified. (Actually, I originally said the "rape issue" can be handled at a later point in time but, in hindsight, that was probably mere wishful thinking).

I mean that, as is my understanding, Atlasia 'replaced' the USA for the purposes of the game in 2004; all laws and court decisions remain active and presumably; Roe v Wade included. I had always viewed abortion legislation passed by the regions as 'trigger' bills to be enacted should Roe v Wade fall.

[TJ in Wisco]

How can Roe v. Wade stand if it was decided based on a constitution we no longer have in effect?

[shua]

I think the Second Abortion Statute would go against Roe v Wade already.

[afleitch]

How can Roe v. Wade stand if it was decided based on a constitution we no longer have in effect?

That is ultimately the question; what status do these rulings, alongside rulings made under the First and Second Constitutions have. All were modeled on the US Constitution.

This is in part answered by Article VIII of the Second Constitution which confirmed;

"All Legislation and Judicial Rulings not inconsistent with this Constitution passed prior to the Adoption of this Constitution shall remain in full force, unless superceded by subsequent legislation or Judicial Rulings."

This language was retained in Article VIII of the Third Constitution

'Prior' would include rulings determined under the US Constitution as in terms of Atlasia, we are considered a successor to the USA. Indeed, the legislative process refers to many US laws (Civil Rights Act etc) as being 'in force' as well as to laws created to replace or supplant US laws that were previously in force. Even Court judgements refer to US law and US legal precedent.

I have always considered therefore, and indeed it makes sense from a game viewpoint that all existing US law and legal decision was 'carried over' to Atlasia and this would include Roe vs Wade

[afleitch]

I think the Second Abortion Statute would go against Roe v Wade already.

That's in part why I tried to overturn it in February to re-instate the First Trimester condition.

[ZuWo]

Seems like a lot of effort being put in to legislate a 'trigger' bill.

This is not a trigger bill. Indeed, I said during the debate I would like to go further and outlaw abortions in every case but I understand that such a proposal would have a harder time being passed. Thus, I don't currently intend to propose another piece of legislation on the issue of abortion if this gets passed and can be ratified. (Actually, I originally said the "rape issue" can be handled at a later point in time but, in hindsight, that was probably mere wishful thinking).

I mean that, as is my understanding, Atlasia 'replaced' the USA for the purposes of the game in 2004; all laws and court decisions remain active and presumably; Roe v Wade included. I had always viewed abortion legislation passed by the regions as 'trigger' bills to be enacted should Roe v Wade fall.

So I misunderstood the term "trigger bill".
From my point of view, as a pro-life politician, it's of course inconvenient what you say but it's good that you point at Roe v Wade and the more general question how Atlasia deals with rulings made in the USA prior to the existence of Atlasia. I'm just afraid that this will open a huge can of worms and compel us in the Mideast (and people in other regions) to look through passed legislation and check whether they correspond with certain rulings or not.

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

AYE

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

Voting is now closed.  The AYEs are 4, and the NAYs are 1.  The AYEs have it, and the amendment is agreed to.  Without further debate, I'll bring this to a final vote tonight.

[ZuWo]

Speaker Inks, can we bring this bill to a final vote? Thank you.

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

Voting is now open on the bill as follows.  Members will vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN.  This will be a 48-hour vote:

Amendment to the Mideast Abortion Statute II
Section 1 of the Mideast Abortion Statute shall be amended to read:

"1: No abortions shall be permitted except in the cases of threat to the mother's health or a pregnancy caused by rape."

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

AYE

[ZuWo]

Aye

[TJ in Wisco]

Aye

[MOPolitico]

Nay

[CathKhan]

Aye.

[Hashemite]

You're acting like a bunch of Francoists, folks. Any way for the people to repeal this affront to freedom?

[ZuWo]

You're acting like a bunch of Francoists, folks. Any way for the people to repeal this affront to freedom?

I do hope your "Francoists" comment is a joke.

The Mideast Constitution is quite explicit about what can happen with this bill after it has been passed and signed by the Governor. You just have to look it up.

[afleitch]

You're acting like a bunch of Francoists, folks. Any way for the people to repeal this affront to freedom?

It's unconstitutional. Roe v Wade still stands and if the Governor signs it, I will challenge it on that basis.