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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: Empowering Regions in Elections Amendment (Failed)  (Read 3485 times)
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« Reply #100 on: August 29, 2011, 12:49:26 am »
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It is technically no longer Sundaybut here goes.

A report on turnout: federal senate elections vs. regional elections.

June 2011 Northeast Senate Race: 26 voters.
June 2011 Northeast Regional Elections: 14 voters.

June 2011 Southeast Senate Race: 13 voters.
June 2011 Southeast Regional Elections: 6 voters.

June 2011 Mideast Senate Race: 19 voters.
May 2011 Mideast Regional Elections: 10 voters, as the nearest regional election.

Going back further...

February 2011 Northeast Senate Race: 22 voters.
February 2011 Northeast Regional Elections: 21 voters. The only incident of comparable turnout.

February 2011 Southeast Senate Race: 15 voters.
February 2011 Southeast Regional Elections: 8 voters.

February 2011 Mideast Senate Race: 22 voters.
January 2011 Mideast Regional Elections: 17 voters.

Still a rather small sample size, I admit.

October 2010 Northeast Senate Race: 27 voters.
October 2010 Northeast Regional Elections: 16 voters.

October 2010 Southeast Senate Race: 19 voters.
October 2010 Southeast Regional Elections: 13 voters.

October 2010 Mideast Senate Race: 21 voters.
September 2010 Mideast Regional Elections: 15 voters.

I have gone back over an entire year of elections, using statistics from the Wiki or hand counting regional voting booths. What I find is that in not one election does regional election turnout surpass federal election turnout. In fact, in only one election was the turnout difference less than 5 voters. I did not take the time to calculate the difference between Pacific and Midwest regional elections because they are held in the same months as At-Large Senate seats, though I suspect if you compared the turnout in those regions' elections to either their regional Senate elections or the amount of voters in those regions who show up to vote in At-Large elections, you will see similar differences as the three regions data has been provided for.

To conclude this report, there is significant evidence that a national election is a bigger voter draw than a regional election. The reason for this is easy to explain. The Presidency in Atlasia, just like in real life America, brings out the most voters being the most prominent position. The partisan interests at stake in the Senate elections tied to the Presidency are affected but would be diminished if transferred to regional ballots. Regional elections are less of a draw because the balance of power in most regions is so that elections are not very competitive or are rarely competitive, and even when competitive, do not draw as many voters. No evidence is found that suggests transferring Senate elections to regional ballots would increase regional election turnout.

The results of this report indicate to me that this proposal's current form would diminish turnout for Senate races while, at best, insignificantly increasing regional election turnout.


Now, my proposed solution remains to place both Presidential and Senate elections on regional ballots. This would have the benefit of a coat-tail effect for downballot races, making it easier for voters to know who is running and for what offices, as they won't have to search for two separate threads. It is possible that these voters continue to neglect Gubernatorial and other Regional elections but the likelihood of that outcome does not exceed the likelihood that my proposed solution increases turnout for Gubernatorial and Regional elections without diminishing turnout in other elections.

Some have complained that my proposal would be "too complicated". I assure you that this is the standard reactionary reaction to any attempt at progress. While instead of one national voting booth and multiple regional voting booths, we would have 5 separate voting booths, complication would not arise. It would be, in fact, simpler for voters to only vote in one booth, as you only receive one ballot per election in real life as well. Further, the only nationalized race would be the Presidency, which requires only the addition of 5 numbers. We do not imagine this to be more difficult than sorting out votes for the various regional Senate races as 5 elections take place in one thread currently. Not to mention, the Wiki would be easy to update with Presidential results by region. Grin

As shown, Regional elections drew about 50% of the voters from Presidential/Senate elections for our most recent, June 2011. This is a crisis in development if it isn't already one. Our beloved game is dependent on elections, and as such, voter turn out.

It is with this presentation that I must ask this Senate to rethink their support for my proposal, and if not, their support for this amendment, which is certain to severely impact turnout in Senate races.
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« Reply #101 on: August 29, 2011, 02:17:32 am »
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It has the potential to be complicated since there is a very long history of regional election administrators neglecting their duties and just plain not opening voting booths. You would almost certainly end up with regions voting for the Presidential elections at different times---and if you were strict and didn't allow this, some regions wouldn't get the full 72 hours or perhaps miss the election entirely. And that's not fair.

Having all five Senate elections together has worked mostly fine for about 7 years now. Don't fix something if it isn't broken.
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« Reply #102 on: August 29, 2011, 08:40:13 pm »
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Just a note - I think it'd be interesting to see how much turnout increased in regional elections if this passed. I think there would be a much more emphasis on them from the "party bosses" should Senate seats be involved, too.
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« Reply #103 on: August 31, 2011, 01:48:26 pm »
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Are there any other restrictions that should be put into clause 3? I was weighing requiring a referendum on any changes to the election method, but now I am thinking more that the regions should choose the process of how they allow their election system to be change.
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« Reply #104 on: September 02, 2011, 01:51:33 pm »
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Talking to yourself is fun, I guess. Tongue


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« Reply #105 on: September 02, 2011, 02:13:06 pm »
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Can we just get a final vote?
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« Reply #106 on: September 02, 2011, 02:37:43 pm »
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I just PMed BK about this and other matters. If he wants me too, then I can open a vote here. Otherwise it is up to him to do it with the new senate having began at noon.
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« Reply #107 on: September 04, 2011, 09:29:17 pm »
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Quote from: Current Text
Empowering Regions in Elections Amendment

1. A region's governing body shall have the authority to determine procedure for administration of voting booths and certification of election results for their own Class A Senate elections.

2. A region's governing body may determine the means of election to Class A Senate election.

3. To ensure fairness in changes in means of election, any alternative system of voting chosen by the region's governing body for Class A Senate elections must remain democratic and may not disqualify any candidate meeting the qualifications set in the Constitution.In order to ensure these standards are followed, the following conditions are set:
     a) A region may not employ a secret ballot, or any means of voting that is conducted by Personal Message or off-site, in a manner that is not publically displayed in an official voting booth created by the administrator of the election.

4. If a region fails to open a vote for their Senator within 1 day of when polls must open, a Federal Officer of the Executive Branch shall open the vote on behalf of the region.



With no debate in a really long time and final vote having been called, this bill is now at final Vote, please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.
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« Reply #108 on: September 04, 2011, 09:30:48 pm »
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AYE
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« Reply #109 on: September 04, 2011, 09:51:13 pm »
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Aye
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« Reply #110 on: September 04, 2011, 10:32:40 pm »
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Nay
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« Reply #111 on: September 04, 2011, 10:37:36 pm »
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Nay
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« Reply #112 on: September 05, 2011, 02:49:53 am »
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Nay
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« Reply #113 on: September 05, 2011, 04:25:32 am »
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Nay
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« Reply #114 on: September 05, 2011, 05:52:52 pm »
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Nay, nay, nay
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« Reply #115 on: September 05, 2011, 05:59:56 pm »
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Nay, nay, nay

Jesus, man, now need to go all excessive, there is already more then enough to fail this. Tongue
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« Reply #116 on: September 05, 2011, 06:13:08 pm »
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And a round of applause for the JCP, ladies and gentlemen. (And a standing-O for Snowguy, please! The Senator that changed from Aye to Nay!)
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« Reply #117 on: September 05, 2011, 07:19:13 pm »
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aye whatever
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« Reply #118 on: September 05, 2011, 07:25:45 pm »
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Cry
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« Reply #119 on: September 05, 2011, 07:39:13 pm »
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With 5 nays and 3 ayes, this bill has enough votes to fail. Senators have 24 hours to change their votes.
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« Reply #120 on: September 05, 2011, 08:13:32 pm »
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And a round of applause for the JCP, ladies and gentlemen. (And a standing-O for Snowguy, please! The Senator that changed from Aye to Nay!)
The regional senate seat process is clearly broken.  I don't think this bill will make it better.  As it is right now, only one region is competitive (the Northeast).

Valid points are made regarding indirect election of regional senators in that Atlasians don't vote in regional elections.

It is wholly unfair to subject half the senate to a full referendum by all Atlasians while the other half can be rushed into office by a few super active players.

I honestly didn't think that would be an issue... I thought the regions would keep similar systems to what we have now... but I think the right wants to push for indirect elections, which will hurt the senate.

If we had two federal legislative bodies, it might be different... but to give half the senators the exact same powers and responsibilities as the other half while only making them accountable to a tiny sliver of the electorate is unfair.

I have not been shy about my support for getting rid of regional senate seats altogether and making them all AL.  While I'd like to give regions the benefit of the doubt, I don't want this to become a system where a few good old boys decide who gets to be senator in 4 out of 5 regional senate seats.
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« Reply #121 on: September 05, 2011, 08:22:09 pm »
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just lobbing out attacks hoping one of them will stick?

Ah, I see you deleted that post now.
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« Reply #122 on: September 05, 2011, 08:39:15 pm »
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just lobbing out attacks hoping one of them will stick?

Ah, I see you deleted that post now.

I deleted it in the hope that this wouldn't become a fight and I could just leave it at that. But you know what? I'll bite.

You've all become a horrible parody of yourselves. You're a left-wing version of the Populares and nothing more accurately describes you than that. You yourself openly admit to moving to a region to stack voting odds in Napoleon's favor. Napoleon openly admits to voting for BRTD solely because he wants people to be in power that support his agenda, as if that's not a silly shallow selfish reason. Your own President is quite literally laughed out of the for-profit university ban by you all for daring to suggest it should be more elaborate. And now, you unanimously vote down a Game Reform proposal.

Nothing, literally major change whatsoever, will ever get through your chokehold on the Senate. I remember a day when the JCP used to stand in stark contrast to the stubborn and old fashioned RPP, the stubborn, vicious, anti-reform party of the 2009 era. We all used to hate how they acted, and now you act the same.

Everything in this game is increasingly becoming a game of the JCP vs. everyone else. What do you guys even stand for anymore? As far as I can tell you don't stand for a goddamn thing, nothing aside from getting yourself into power, anyway.

The JCP used to be the party that bragged about their active citizens, that bragged about having the most ideas, that bragged about being the party of reform, but since late-last year, you've all become a hilarious hyper-partisan caricature of your former selves, preferring to be thuggishly hostile and dismissive of anything you don't come up with yourselves over being the calm and creative party of ideas you used to be.

It's nice to stand here and say, as Napoleon often does, that "well, why wouldn't I vote for someone who reflected my own interests?" But would the Senate really be a better place with 10 BRTDs? From the perspective of getting whatever the hell you wanted, maybe. But it wouldn't be a good Senate from a standpoint of activity or competence.

JCP dominance is not good for the game. Not from my feeble opinion, but from simple fact. You've become the anti-reform party. The pro-status quo party. The thuggishly hostile party, and the hyper partisan think-only-of-ourselves party. And you get away with it, because you have the numbers to get away with it. And it's almost as if you know this, so you flaunt it. You're the "neener neener" party. You're so much more flagrantly aggressive than you've all ever been before, and you feel no shame.

I can't imagine why any self-respecting person would be a member of your party. What you stand for is so thouroughly and empirically anti-thetical to progress, civility, and good government. You maintain your power through the sheer force of your monopoly. Does knowing you rule by leaving people no other choice make you all happy? I hope so, because you've got nothing else.
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« Reply #123 on: September 05, 2011, 08:53:31 pm »
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LOL.
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When I was in the third grade, I thought that I was Jewish
Because I could count, my nose was big, and I kept my bank account fullish
I told my mom, tears blurring my vision
He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
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« Reply #124 on: September 05, 2011, 08:57:49 pm »
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LOL.

This is fast becoming the JCP equivalent of Libertas' old penchant for "Roll Eyes".
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