Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 21, 2014, 04:37:26 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
| |-+  U.S. Presidential Election Results
| | |-+  2004 U.S. Presidential Election Results (Moderator: True Federalist)
| | | |-+  Why the Zell Miller transformation?
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: Why the Zell Miller transformation?  (Read 7159 times)
LBJer
Full Member
***
Posts: 150
View Profile
« on: August 17, 2011, 08:12:01 pm »
Ignore

Zell Miller delivered a ferocious, fire and brimstone speech against John Kerry at the Republican convention in 2004.  Yet only three years earlier, he gave a very warm speech on Kerry's behalf:

http://www.alternet.org/election04/19761/

What happened?  Why did Miller make such a dramatic transformation at the end of his career?
Logged
Snowstalker
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 17572
Cuba


Political Matrix
E: -8.45, S: -4.26

View Profile
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2011, 05:05:47 pm »
Ignore

Attention.
Logged

Link
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3464
View Profile
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2011, 05:18:08 pm »
Ignore

Zell Miller delivered a ferocious, fire and brimstone speech against John Kerry at the Republican convention in 2004.  Yet only three years earlier, he gave a very warm speech on Kerry's behalf:

http://www.alternet.org/election04/19761/

What happened?  Why did Miller make such a dramatic transformation at the end of his career?

When you're dealing with Palpatine there is no way of knowing what he's planning.


Logged

Insane quote of the year-

"Every aspect of life in America is worse than when he [Obama] took over" -Marco Rubio
Scott
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18805
United States
View Profile
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2011, 06:26:15 pm »
Ignore

My only guess is, as Georgia became more conservative, so did he.

"Fiscal responsibility is unbelievable in the face of massive new spending promises. A foreign policy based on the strength of 'allies' like France is unacceptable …A strong national defense policy is just not believable coming from a candidate who built a career as an anti-war veteran, an anti-military candidate and an anti-action senator. …When will national Democrats sober up and admit that that dog won't hunt? Secular socialism, heavy taxes, big spending, weak defense, limitless lawsuits and heavy regulation – that pack of beagles hasn't caught a rabbit in the South or Midwest in years."

Haha, Tea Party Democrat.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 06:30:43 pm by Scott »Logged
Stranger in a strange land
strangeland
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6329
United States


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2011, 10:12:12 pm »
Ignore

My only guess is, as Georgia became more conservative, so did he.

"Fiscal responsibility is unbelievable in the face of massive new spending promises. A foreign policy based on the strength of 'allies' like France is unacceptable …A strong national defense policy is just not believable coming from a candidate who built a career as an anti-war veteran, an anti-military candidate and an anti-action senator. …When will national Democrats sober up and admit that that dog won't hunt? Secular socialism, heavy taxes, big spending, weak defense, limitless lawsuits and heavy regulation – that pack of beagles hasn't caught a rabbit in the South or Midwest in years."

Haha, Tea Party Democrat.

Miller went from a fairly standard Blue Dog Democrat to Jim Inhofe with a D after his name in the space of about four years. It's very unusual for a man of Miller's age to change his political and social views so drastically. He wasn't running for reelection, so I doubt he was genuinely changing with his state. He did, however, realize that he would get much more attention and sell a lot more books if he became an Iconoclastic Archconservative Democrat, in other words a Democrat who hated Democrats. Had he just switched parties or continued to be a conservative Democrat who didn't actively undermine the party, he would have gotten a lot less attention and made a lot less money.
Logged

Scott
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18805
United States
View Profile
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2011, 10:40:29 pm »
Ignore

My only guess is, as Georgia became more conservative, so did he.

"Fiscal responsibility is unbelievable in the face of massive new spending promises. A foreign policy based on the strength of 'allies' like France is unacceptable …A strong national defense policy is just not believable coming from a candidate who built a career as an anti-war veteran, an anti-military candidate and an anti-action senator. …When will national Democrats sober up and admit that that dog won't hunt? Secular socialism, heavy taxes, big spending, weak defense, limitless lawsuits and heavy regulation – that pack of beagles hasn't caught a rabbit in the South or Midwest in years."

Haha, Tea Party Democrat.

Miller went from a fairly standard Blue Dog Democrat to Jim Inhofe with a D after his name in the space of about four years. It's very unusual for a man of Miller's age to change his political and social views so drastically. He wasn't running for reelection, so I doubt he was genuinely changing with his state. He did, however, realize that he would get much more attention and sell a lot more books if he became an Iconoclastic Archconservative Democrat, in other words a Democrat who hated Democrats. Had he just switched parties or continued to be a conservative Democrat who didn't actively undermine the party, he would have gotten a lot less attention and made a lot less money.
That's possible.  But who knows?  People change their minds about things all the time.  Maybe he had hung around with Saxby Chambliss for too long.

One thing I never liked about him was how he claimed it's just the Democratic Party that's changed over the years, and not him.  Which is totally incorrect.
Logged
Governor TJ
TJ in Cleve
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4960
United States


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2011, 10:44:50 pm »
Ignore

I think he changed views because of the War in Iraq. Most of his fire and brimstone speech had that as its subject. Just a guess.
Logged

Tidewater_Wave
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 525
United States


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2012, 02:26:35 am »
Ignore

Zell Miller didn't change. His party left him. Miller stands exactly where Democrats did in the 50's as I do myself for the most part.
Logged
Joe Republic
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 30714
United States


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2012, 02:38:14 am »
Ignore

Zell Miller didn't change. His party left him. Miller stands exactly where Democrats did in the 50's as I do myself for the most part.

1950's Democrats from Georgia are certainly not to be revered in the 21st century.

Also, I take issue with your first sentence.  Compare Miller's keynote speech at the 1992 Democratic National Convention with his voting record on economic issues during his partial term in the Senate.
Logged



Real Americans (and Big Sky Bob) demand to know.


I just slept for 11 hours, so I should need a nap today, but we'll see.
Tidewater_Wave
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 525
United States


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2012, 02:41:15 am »
Ignore

The Democrats of that era weren't as conservative on economics as they were on social and foreign issues. His party left him and he did not leave his party. He would be representative of the party until 1980.
Logged
Joe Republic
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 30714
United States


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2012, 02:49:47 am »
Ignore

You missed my point.  Read/listen to his 1992 speech - specifically the portions where he praised all the work the previous Democratic presidents had done to build a social safety net - and then look at his series of Senate votes to dismantle it.  Of course he changed.

The social policies of the Dixiecrats are an embarrassment to the modern day party, as they should be, so it's little wonder that they eventually realigned with the Republicans instead.  Miller is simply an anachronism.  But if he had followed everybody else, he wouldn't be notable or have sold so many of his books, so here we are.
Logged



Real Americans (and Big Sky Bob) demand to know.


I just slept for 11 hours, so I should need a nap today, but we'll see.
Ebowed
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16396
Australia


Political Matrix
E: -8.32, S: -9.30

View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2012, 03:29:41 am »
Ignore

The Democrats of that era weren't as conservative on economics as they were on social and foreign issues.

Southern Democrats allied with Republicans in preventing FDR, Truman, and JFK from fully implementing their economic platforms on a wide variety of subjects.  About the only thing keeping those politicians (and the voters who supported them) from joining the Republicans in the first place was the fact that Lincoln freed the slaves.
Logged

A tidal wave of healthcare has swept across coal country. 
Miles
MilesC56
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15566
United States


Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 4.52

View Profile
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2012, 03:33:03 am »
Ignore

Zell Miller didn't change. His party left him. Miller stands exactly where Democrats did in the 50's as I do myself for the most part.
Logged


Joe Republic
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 30714
United States


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2012, 10:22:38 am »
Ignore

Zell Miller didn't change. His party left him. Miller stands exactly where Democrats did in the 50's as I do myself for the most part.

Once again, that is not only inaccurate, but also pretty vile.
Logged



Real Americans (and Big Sky Bob) demand to know.


I just slept for 11 hours, so I should need a nap today, but we'll see.
Napoleon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15419


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2012, 10:39:55 am »
Ignore

Zell Miller didn't change. His party left him. Miller stands exactly where Democrats did in the 50's as I do myself for the most part.

Once again, that is not only inaccurate, but also pretty vile.

QFT
Logged

When I was in the third grade, I thought that I was Jewish
Because I could count, my nose was big, and I kept my bank account fullish
I told my mom, tears blurring my vision
He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
Stranger in a strange land
strangeland
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6329
United States


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2012, 10:43:41 am »
Ignore

Zell Miller didn't change. His party left him. Miller stands exactly where Democrats did in the 50's as I do myself for the most part.

Once again, that is not only inaccurate, but also pretty vile.

QFT

Miller's views changed substantially from the early 90s to the mid-2000s. While he was governor of Georgia, he was pretty much a conservative-leaning typical Blue Dog Democrat. Once he got to the Senate, and particularly after the 2000 election, he became Jim Inhofe with a D after his name. 
Logged

Pope Kalwejt I of Northeast
Kalwejt
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 37329


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2012, 11:03:07 am »
Ignore

Zell Miller didn't change. His party left him. Miller stands exactly where Democrats did in the 50's as I do myself for the most part.

Nonsense.

Miller changed after his narrow reelection as Governor in 1994.

Btw, are you saying you're a fan of Jim Crow? Ah, those great 1950s Democrats...
Logged

I'm JewCon in name only.
Klecly
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 922
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.61, S: 6.52

View Profile
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2012, 02:54:51 pm »
Ignore

Zell Miller is awesome. My favorite Democrat, hands down. I'd easily vote for him in a presidential election or a senate election.
Logged

Snowstalker
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 17572
Cuba


Political Matrix
E: -8.45, S: -4.26

View Profile
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2012, 03:03:04 pm »
Ignore

Zell Miller didn't change. His party left him. Miller stands exactly where Democrats did in the 50's as I do myself for the most part.

You're way to the left of him on economic issues.
Logged

Tidewater_Wave
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 525
United States


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2012, 05:15:26 pm »
Ignore

Zell Miller didn't change. His party left him. Miller stands exactly where Democrats did in the 50's as I do myself for the most part.

Nonsense.

Miller changed after his narrow reelection as Governor in 1994.

Btw, are you saying you're a fan of Jim Crow? Ah, those great 1950s Democrats...

Everyone, this ^^ is what liberals do. They take conservatives out of context in order to change the issue to benefit them. This is comparable as well to they way they're trying to change the abortion issue to contraceptives. No one ever said anything about Jim Crow. Stop what you're trying to do because no one on this forum is falling for it.
Logged
wormyguy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8548
Liechtenstein


Political Matrix
E: 4.52, S: -1.57

View Profile
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2012, 06:58:23 pm »
Ignore

Zell Miller was more of an early 70s southern Democrat than a 50s one.
Logged
IDS Legislator Pingvin
Pingvin99
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2407
Estonia


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2012, 02:43:19 am »
Ignore

Zell Miller is awesome. My favorite Democrat, hands down. I'd easily vote for him in a presidential election or a senate election.
Logged

Pope Kalwejt I of Northeast
Kalwejt
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 37329


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2012, 03:53:25 am »
Ignore

Zell Miller didn't change. His party left him. Miller stands exactly where Democrats did in the 50's as I do myself for the most part.

Nonsense.

Miller changed after his narrow reelection as Governor in 1994.

Btw, are you saying you're a fan of Jim Crow? Ah, those great 1950s Democrats...

Everyone, this ^^ is what liberals do. They take conservatives out of context in order to change the issue to benefit them. This is comparable as well to they way they're trying to change the abortion issue to contraceptives. No one ever said anything about Jim Crow. Stop what you're trying to do because no one on this forum is falling for it.

You know very well for what the Southern Democrats stood for in 1950s. Maybe you should be little more careful next time by making such declarations.
Logged

Mechaman
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14087
Jamaica


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2012, 07:57:13 am »
Ignore

Zell Miller didn't change. His party left him. Miller stands exactly where Democrats did in the 50's as I do myself for the most part.

Nonsense.

Miller changed after his narrow reelection as Governor in 1994.

Btw, are you saying you're a fan of Jim Crow? Ah, those great 1950s Democrats...

Everyone, this ^^ is what liberals do. They take conservatives out of context in order to change the issue to benefit them. This is comparable as well to they way they're trying to change the abortion issue to contraceptives. No one ever said anything about Jim Crow. Stop what you're trying to do because no one on this forum is falling for it.

You know very well for what the Southern Democrats stood for in 1950s. Maybe you should be little more careful next time by making such declarations.

To be fair Kal, he said he stood where the Democrats did in the 50's for the most part.

For the record Zell Miller did in fact campaign in favor of segregation in 1964 and 1966 when he ran for Congress.

But even if we assume he meant he stood exactly where the Democrats did in the 50's..............how the hell would that be possible?  I mean the Democratic Party was exponentially more big tent in the 50's than it is today.  I mean yeah sure, now days you have some blue dogs and moderates but back then the Democratic Party had everybody and their grandmother who for some reason or other didn't like the Republicans.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 08:00:02 am by MechaRepublican »Logged



17:20   bore   the point of atlasia is to achieve things which you can then use as pick up lines
OC
olawakandi
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9990
United States


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2012, 05:24:20 pm »
Ignore

He saw that besides Clinton who was the most moderate prez, he saw the modern day democratic party ( AL Gore's defeat in 2000) moving too far to the left even after 911. He mistook that as a sign of weakest after 911 and became a defacto along with Joseph Lieberman member of GOP Party. Along with the Zell Miller seat LA, NC, SC, and FL went GOP in 2004.  You could say that it was a political realignment or being soft on nat'l security.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 05:26:02 pm by OC »Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines