Greek spending has actually been rising

[Gustaf]

Why not let Greece default, and just kick them out of the EU? Just asking.

Tiny Greece seems to be holding everyone hostage as it were, and it's annoying. They need to get a memo that the penalties will be severe. Just cut them loose is my visceral reaction, so tell me why that is unwise. It may well be, but I want to start a discussion on this. I want to get educated. Thanks.

Well, it's bank bailout writ large, really.

The fear is that if Greece fails markets will turn on Portugal, Spain and Italy and bring down the entire euro zone.

[Beet]

Greek finance ministry reports that the primary surplus is projected to be 3.2% next year. It only turns into a 6.8% deficit once interest payments are factored in. But seeing as Greece is not borrowing from the market, it is borrowing from the Troika, I do not understand this. The whole point of the bailout is to save Greece, so why not charge a low interest rate, such as 0.5%? If that were the case, wouldn't Greece run a primary surplus? Just another thing that makes no sense when it comes to Greece.

[Peeperkorn]

Why not let Greece default, and just kick them out of the EU? Just asking.

1) There aren't institutional mechanisms inside the EU for such a thing.

2) There would be a radical mistrust in the other PIIGS compromises.

2) Every country in possession of greek doubt will be quite fuçked, incluiding Germany.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Why not let Greece default, and just kick them out of the EU? Just asking.

Tiny Greece seems to be holding everyone hostage as it were, and it's annoying. They need to get a memo that the penalties will be severe. Just cut them loose is my visceral reaction, so tell me why that is unwise. It may well be, but I want to start a discussion on this. I want to get educated. Thanks.

Goddamn, you're an elitist authoritarian.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Why not let Greece default, and just kick them out of the EU? Just asking.

Tiny Greece seems to be holding everyone hostage as it were, and it's annoying. They need to get a memo that the penalties will be severe. Just cut them loose is my visceral reaction, so tell me why that is unwise. It may well be, but I want to start a discussion on this. I want to get educated. Thanks.

Goddamn, you're an elitist authoritarian.

Actually, surveys in a number of EU countries indicate that the voters are opposed to continuing the Greek bailout,

Its the supporters of the bailouts who have ignored the voters who are the arrogant elitists.

[Peeperkorn]

Why not let Greece default, and just kick them out of the EU? Just asking.

Tiny Greece seems to be holding everyone hostage as it were, and it's annoying. They need to get a memo that the penalties will be severe. Just cut them loose is my visceral reaction, so tell me why that is unwise. It may well be, but I want to start a discussion on this. I want to get educated. Thanks.

Goddamn, you're an elitist authoritarian.

Actually, surveys in a number of EU countries indicate that the voters are opposed to continuing the Greek bailout,

Its the supporters of the bailouts who have ignored the voters who are the arrogant elitists.

This is quite true. Even Spaniards criticize the idea of giving more money to Greece.

[Peeperkorn]

ATHENS, Greece (AP) — Greece's central government deficit continued to grow in the first nine months of the year despite a series of austerity measures designed to raise revenues, figures from the country's finance ministry showed Wednesday.

Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/business/article/Greek-deficit-widens-in-first-9-months-of-years-2214340.php#ixzz1aZa9pCvZ

lol?

[CARLHAYDEN]

Why not let Greece default, and just kick them out of the EU? Just asking.

Tiny Greece seems to be holding everyone hostage as it were, and it's annoying. They need to get a memo that the penalties will be severe. Just cut them loose is my visceral reaction, so tell me why that is unwise. It may well be, but I want to start a discussion on this. I want to get educated. Thanks.

Goddamn, you're an elitist authoritarian.

Actually, surveys in a number of EU countries indicate that the voters are opposed to continuing the Greek bailout,

Its the supporters of the bailouts who have ignored the voters who are the arrogant elitists.

This is quite true. Even Spaniards criticize the idea of giving more money to Greece.

This is understandable.

Greece is unique among the PIIGS in failing to make reasonable efforts to curtail spending.

[Peeperkorn]

I don't see the point of more bailouts. What will it happen when Italy ask for 10 times the same help?

Let's put it simple:

EU gives credit to EU to pay EU.

But that "x" amount because of inefficiency and devaluation returns as "x-1". And, in order to pay interests, the country will ask for more "x" ad infinitum.

It's a vicious circle. Politicians are only trying to save their asses for the upcoming elections, but sooner or later the bomb will explode.

[opebo]

I don't see the point of more bailouts. What will it happen when Italy ask for 10 times the same help?

Let's put it simple:

EU gives credit to EU to pay EU.

But that "x" amount because of inefficiency and devaluation returns as "x-1". And, in order to pay interests, the country will ask for more "x" ad infinitum.

It's a vicious circle. Politicians are only trying to save their asses for the upcoming elections, but sooner or later the bomb will explode.

You just print it, Peep.  The lesson of every debt-deflation depression is - replace everything with fiat.

Curtailing spending is madness in a depression, the Greeks are the heroes, and the Germans the villains.

[Gustaf]

I don't see the point of more bailouts. What will it happen when Italy ask for 10 times the same help?

Let's put it simple:

EU gives credit to EU to pay EU.

But that "x" amount because of inefficiency and devaluation returns as "x-1". And, in order to pay interests, the country will ask for more "x" ad infinitum.

It's a vicious circle. Politicians are only trying to save their asses for the upcoming elections, but sooner or later the bomb will explode.

You just print it, Peep.  The lesson of every debt-deflation depression is - replace everything with fiat.

Curtailing spending is madness in a depression, the Greeks are the heroes, and the Germans the villains.

Heroes and villains? What archaic and moralistic terms to use. Surely you do not believe in such comic book nonsense?

[Beet]

I would support a bailout if it would work, but this isn't working. I mean it's not really a bailout if you don't succeed in bailing them out. Where is the road map forward?

[Sam Spade]

I would support a bailout if it would work, but this isn't working. I mean it's not really a bailout if you don't succeed in bailing them out. Where is the road map forward?

Kicking the can until it explodes?

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

There is no public will in Greece to stave off default, therefore the country will default.

[Peeperkorn]

I don't know if I posted this before:

Bloomberg: So many Greek companies and employees cheat on their taxes that a third of all economic activity delivers no revenue to the government, the Finance Ministry says. Some Greeks say tax evasion is rooted in the Ottoman Empire’s control of the country for centuries until the 1820s. “We very much lack a tax conscience,” says Ilias Plaskovitis, the Finance Ministry’s general secretary. “Some trace it back to the Ottoman Empire, when tax evasion was resistance to foreign powers.”

http://www.businessinsider.com/corruption-in-greese-hampering-economic-recovery-2010-1

Don't pay taxes, say that it's cultural because of the struggle for independence.

[opebo]

Heroes and villains? What archaic and moralistic terms to use. Surely you do not believe in such comic book nonsense?

Good policy = hero, bad policy = villain.  They're just figures of speech, lunkhead.

[© tweed]

youth unEmp in Greece is now over 40%.

[opebo]

youth unEmp in Greece is now over 40%.

The youths should be eliminated by the market soon.  'Market clearing' don't you know.

[Beet]

Another option is that instead of giving money to Greece, the EFSF will purchase Greek debt directly at a discount and then let Greece out to dry. The country will go bust and be forced into adjustment, but at the same time avoid crippling interest payments.

There are just so many possible solutions-- I just can't understand why none of them are being implemented. What the Europeans are doing now is making a plan for disaster, all the while living in an obvious fantasy world. It's surreal.

[Gustaf]

Heroes and villains? What archaic and moralistic terms to use. Surely you do not believe in such comic book nonsense?

Good policy = hero, bad policy = villain.  They're just figures of speech, lunkhead.

It is almost moving to see such a simple mind at work. Like watching a little child playing with his first action man.

[Peeperkorn]

Heroes and villains? What archaic and moralistic terms to use. Surely you do not believe in such comic book nonsense?

Good policy = hero, bad policy = villain.  They're just figures of speech, lunkhead.

It is almost moving to see such a simple mind at work. Like watching a little child playing with his first action man.

You are talking about pedophilia ?

[opebo]

Good policy = hero, bad policy = villain.  They're just figures of speech, lunkhead.

It is almost moving to see such a simple mind at work. Like watching a little child playing with his first action man.

Your simplicity seems to be of the autistic variety, Gustaf.  It is a commonplace to refer to effective policies as 'good', and damaging policies as 'bad', and in the same way to refer to governments in the positive and the negative based on an overall assessment of their performance.  

Rhetorical flourishes are also common among the emotionally and cognitively normal.  Remember, your writing doesn't have to be as boring as it is.  Try harder, and we'll all try to give you encouragement.

[Gustaf]

Good policy = hero, bad policy = villain.  They're just figures of speech, lunkhead.

It is almost moving to see such a simple mind at work. Like watching a little child playing with his first action man.

Your simplicity seems to be of the autistic variety, Gustaf.  It is a commonplace to refer to effective policies as 'good', and damaging policies as 'bad', and in the same way to refer to governments in the positive and the negative based on an overall assessment of their performance.  

Rhetorical flourishes are also common among the emotionally and cognitively normal.  Remember, your writing doesn't have to be as boring as it is.  Try harder, and we'll all try to give you encouragement.

You really have lost your touch, haven't you?

[Gustaf]

Heroes and villains? What archaic and moralistic terms to use. Surely you do not believe in such comic book nonsense?

Good policy = hero, bad policy = villain.  They're just figures of speech, lunkhead.

It is almost moving to see such a simple mind at work. Like watching a little child playing with his first action man.

You are talking about pedophilia ?

I'm talking about "playing with action man", if you catch my drift.