56% of the British public support reinstating the draft

[Phony Moderate]

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http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/3893

[opebo]

If they're overseas bashing the wogs, they can't be riotin' in the terraces!  Eh what what?

[Simfan34]

Urqhart was right.

[Franzl]

Germany finally got rid of it this year. I certainly hope nobody in Europe actually goes in the wrong direction on this issue. (Not that it'll happen. It's just sad to see that so many people hate freedom.)

[Hash]

People also always overreact badly to stuff like riots. They turn overnight into angry far-right lunatics who want the death penalty back and want "to put 'em kids into the 'military to inject some discipline into 'em!".

[greenforest32]

Germany finally got rid of it this year. I certainly hope nobody in Europe actually goes in the wrong direction on this issue. (Not that it'll happen. It's just sad to see that so many people hate freedom.)

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It's a knee-jerk reaction and nothing more. If National Service were to be brought back it would become unpopular - at least in almost every individual case - remarkably quickly.

[Tender Branson]

Germany finally got rid of it this year. I certainly hope nobody in Europe actually goes in the wrong direction on this issue. (Not that it'll happen. It's just sad to see that so many people hate freedom.)

Tell that to the Austrian ÖVP.

Not only do they want to keep the draft now, they also want to keep the civil service at 9 months AND create a new disaster control civil service with 5 months.

And the so called "Untauglichkeitskriterien" would also be considerably lowered under the ÖVP plan, so that only people who have a medically diagnosed "Berufsunfähigkeit" are exempt from the draft.

I guess this would  mean that only 3-5% or so of all drafted men would be unfit for service, instead of the 12-15% now ...

http://www.oe24.at/oesterreich/politik/Wehrpflicht-wird-Oesterreich-Dienst/37861266

[Franzl]

Very disgusting, Tender!

[Peter]

From a personal perspective, I find it quite worrying that I count myself in the 56% majority here. The reason I find it worrying is that I consider myself quite socially liberal (as evidenced by PM score).

Bottom line: The British education system is failing to instil in a significant minority of children the necessary values to function as members of civilized society.

I have been teaching in a state comp for 5 years in a relatively urban area - my school has a slightly warped catchment: we have a significant contingent of middle class kids, and also kids from "the rough end of town". I'd like not to tar all the kids from that area - many are perfectly polite, honest and respectable kids who are keen to learn (and by the same token, there are some middle class kids who are vile). The school has results that are slightly above average at GCSE, and outstandingly good at A-level (the reasons for this split are related to our ability to hold onto our good middle class kids whilst weening out the dross), we are rated as an Outstanding school by OfSTED (though I would take issue with that assessment). I greatly enjoy my job and wouldn't trade it for another, so these are not the musings of a disgruntled teacher.

As a school, we have seen a marked decline in behaviour in recent years (there are many school specific reasons intertwined in this, but it does reflect a more general trend I believe) with certain kids. I would seriously estimate that about 10-20% of our kids are functionally incapable of holding down a job with any basic expectations that could be placed upon them (e.g. punctuality, politeness, general conversational language, honesty). Many of the more experienced teachers tell me that this is a marked increase on earlier in their careers. Some of our former students were involved in the looting of 2 weeks ago  - I would not be surprised if some of the teens who "cannot be named for legal reasons" were ours (in fact I might write some guesses down on a piece of paper!)

I'm not wanting to get into the underlying causes, or the effect of the behaviour on the wider attempt to educate, but the coming storm. Kids who are presently 14 will stay in education till they are 17, those presently 13 will stay till they are 18. Schools are already failing to truly engage the vast majority that this will effect (whilst truancy is historically low, there are several who exhibit the "head on desk" mentality) - what exactly we could do with them, I am not sure.

The best thing we could do with these kids is not to keep them in an academic environment - these kids need to develop some life skills in terms of skilled manual tasks and how to survive healthily and inexpensively on their own. An environment away from their hometown, with genuine boundaries and a new experience for the kids - I honestly believe this would increase the life chances of those kids massively.

To be fair to myself, I think my reasons for supporting a form of optional national service (with the alternative being to start A-levels, which obviously have entry requirements) are a lot more nuanced than your average Daily Mail reader. Nonetheless, its the kids at the bottom we are missing, and we need to fundamentally address what is best for them.

[You kip if you want to...]

Well, it's not like they can afford University these days, so if they're not busy with all that book-learnin'...

[Franzl]

Well, it's not like they can afford University these days, so if they're not busy with all that book-learnin'...

[afleitch]

Well, it's not like they can afford University these days, so if they're not busy with all that book-learnin'...

Shh Franzl. You should know better; Labour supporters don't look at things relatively

[Username MechaRFK]

They sound like HP for those that are supporting  bring back the draft.

[Username MechaRFK]

Germany finally got rid of it this year. I certainly hope nobody in Europe actually goes in the wrong direction on this issue. (Not that it'll happen. It's just sad to see that so many people hate freedom.)

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Is there some reason I'm not getting that some people think instituting the draft would help resolve urban tension?

[Silent Hunter]

If we're worried about young tearaways, is teaching them how to kill people more effectively a good idea?

[Peter the Lefty]

Why, might I ask? 

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Is there some reason I'm not getting that some people think instituting the draft would help resolve urban tension?

Peter gave a fairly cogent argument in favor, and it could also help out somewhat with youth unemployment.

That said, I wouldn't favor restoring the draft, but I could see putting back in place a program like the 1930's Civilian Conservation Corps in the U.S.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

There's a brilliant episode of Yes, Prime Minister talking about the reinstatement of national service (which is usually the issue of these surveys). How you frame the question and how you lead up to it will have an impact on the public response.

[Dr. Cynic]

Well, it's not like they can afford University these days, so if they're not busy with all that book-learnin'...

I bet you paid less than I did.