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Author Topic: Who would you vote for?: Spanish edition  (Read 1163 times)
PASOK Leader Hashemite
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« on: September 01, 2011, 02:57:23 pm »
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1. All general elections since 1931 assuming you lived in a region with no major regionalist party (excluding Euskadi, Catalonia, Galicia, Canaries, Navarre)
1931:
1933:
1936:
1977:
1979:
1982:
1986:
1989:
1993:
1996:
2000:
2004:
2008:
2011:

2. Assuming you lived in Catalonia, regional elections:
1980:
1984:
1988:
1992:
1995:
1999:
2003:
2006:
2010:

3. Assuming you lived in Euskadi, regional elections:
1980:
1984:
1986:
1990:
1994:
1998:
2001:
2005:
2009:
2012/2013:

4. If you want and understand the fun world of Canarian politics, regional elections in the islands:
1983:
1987:
1991:
1995:
1999:
2003:
2007:
2011:

Feel free to do general elections in you lived in Catalonia and Euskadi too. Or even municipal and EU elections. Or even elections under the Restoration (hahahaha).
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RodPresident
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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2011, 04:57:28 pm »
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1. All general elections since 1931 assuming you lived in a region with no major regionalist party (excluding Euskadi, Catalonia, Galicia, Canaries, Navarre)
1931: PSOE, ERC (Catalonia), FRG (Galicia)
1933: PSOE, ERC (Catalonia), Republicans (Galicia)
1936: Republican Left, ERC (Catalonia)
1977: PCE, EE (Basque Country), Catalonian Left (Catalonia)
1979: PCE, PA(Andalusia), UPC (Canaries), HB (Euskadi)
1982: PSOE
1986: CDS, HB (Euskadi)
1989: IU, EA (Euskadi)
1993: IU, EA (Euskadi), BNG (Galicia)
1996: IU, EA (Euskadi), BNG (Galicia)
2000: IU, EA (Euskadi), BNG (Galicia), CHA (Aragon)
2004: PSOE, ERC (Catalonia), BNG (Galicia), CHA (Aragon)
2008: PSOE, ERC (Catalonia), BNG (Galicia)
2011: IU (in large constituencies)/ PSOE (in small), BNG (Galicia)

2. Assuming you lived in Catalonia, regional elections:
1980: PSUC
1984: PSUC
1988: ICV
1992: ICV
1995: ICV
1999: ERC
2003: ERC
2006: ERC
2010: SI

3. Assuming you lived in Euskadi, regional elections:
1980: EE
1984: PSE
1986: EA
1990: EA
1994: EA
1998: EU-IU-B
2001: EU-IU-B
2005: PCTV
2009: PSE
2012/2013: Bildu

4. If you want and understand the fun world of Canarian politics, regional elections in the islands:
1983: PSOE
1987: CDS
1991: PSOE
1995: PSOE
1999: PSOE
2003: PSOE
2007: PSOE
2011: NC

5. Galician elections (Bahia has a large Galician diaspora)
1981: PCG
1985: BNG
1989: BNG
1993: BNG
1997: PS de G/ Galician Left
2001: BNG
2005: BNG
2009: BNG

6. European elections
1987: CDS
1989: IU
1994: IU
1999: PSOE, BNG (Galicia)
2004: PSOE
2009: Izquierda, Europa de los Pueblos-Verdes (Galicia/Catalonia)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 07:31:08 pm by RodPresident »Logged


10 years without Brizola
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JulioMadrid
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2011, 07:28:40 pm »
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You know, PSOE/PSC/PSdeG/PSE-EE all the way...

I could have voted CHA in 2000 if I lived in Aragon.. but probably would vote for Almunia at the end...
In Canarias, I think I could have voted NC in 2011... unlikely, however.

I'm a PSOE hack Wink

If the candidate wasn't Montilla, I would have definitely vote ICV in 2010 if I lived in Catalunya.


Why Bildy, Rodrigo?
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E: -6.06 -> -6.97 -> -6.97 -> -8.13 -> -7.29 -> -8.26 -> -8.65 -> -7.03
S: -6.78 -> -6.09 -> -7.30 -> -7.13 -> -8.09 -> -8.35 -> -9.04 -> -8.61
RodPresident
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2011, 07:34:08 pm »
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In Euskadi, I would be a left-wing nationalist, although I would vote in 2009 against PNV's machine. Now, Bildu is a strong progressive force and Patxi Lopez is an epic fail while PNV never.
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10 years without Brizola
PASOK Leader Hashemite
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2011, 07:56:15 pm »
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But the most important question of all: what do you think of ETA?
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Antonio V
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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2011, 03:57:28 am »
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PSOE all the way.

Don't know enough the regional sub-party systems.
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It REALLY is.



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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2011, 10:29:27 am »
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PSOE all the way.

Don't know enough the regional sub-party systems.

Somebody didn't read my Guide! <angry smilie>

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« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2011, 10:50:18 am »
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In Euskadi, I would be a left-wing nationalist, although I would vote in 2009 against PNV's machine. Now, Bildu is a strong progressive force and Patxi Lopez is an epic fail while PNV never.

Patxi López is not a fail. He may loose in 2013, but he's the new hero of the PSOE, and really popular among IU-PSOE-PP-UPyD voters... what I mean is... he may be our candidate in 2016 or 2020.
And Bildu is a strong terrorist force, not a progressive one. What do you mean by progressive? what have they done since they're in power? Ban private security in the cities/towns they have the power? Support ETA terrorists? Help "etarra's" families? Burn the Spanish flag?

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My evolution (by The Political Matrix):
E: -6.06 -> -6.97 -> -6.97 -> -8.13 -> -7.29 -> -8.26 -> -8.65 -> -7.03
S: -6.78 -> -6.09 -> -7.30 -> -7.13 -> -8.09 -> -8.35 -> -9.04 -> -8.61
PASOK Leader Hashemite
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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2011, 11:01:01 am »
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1. All general elections since 1931 assuming I lived in a region with no major regionalist party (so NOT in Euskadi, Catalonia, Galicia, Canaries, Navarre)
1931: AR (Manuel Azaña) or PRRS (Marcelino Domingo)
1933: AR (Manuel Azaña) or a strategic vote against CEDA-PRR (with hindsight)
1936: Frente Popular [IR (Manuel Azaña)]
(all 3 depend on where I lived, who were the candidates and so forth)

1977: PSP-US (Tierno Galván)
1979: UCD (Adolfo Suárez)
1982: CDS (Adolfo Suárez) [with hindsight]; PSOE (Felipe González) without hindsight
1986: CDS (Adolfo Suárez)
1989: CDS (Adolfo Suárez)
1993: eat my hand
1996: vote strategically PSOE (Felipe González) before eating my hand
2000: PSOE (Joaquín Almunia); CHA (José Antonio Labordeta) in Aragon
2004: PSOE (José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero); CHA (José Antonio Labordeta) in Aragon
2008: PSOE (José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero)
2011: Equo

2. Assuming you lived in Catalonia, regional elections:
1980: CiU (Jordi Pujol)
1984: CiU (Jordi Pujol)
1988: CiU (Jordi Pujol)
1992: CiU (Jordi Pujol)
1995: CiU (Jordi Pujol)
1999: PSC (Pasqual Maragall)
2003: PSC (Pasqual Maragall)
2006: PSC (José Montilla)
2010: CiU (Artur Mas) before regretting it
I'd vote similarly in general elections, though perhaps more often for the PSC

3. Assuming you lived in Euskadi, regional elections:
1980: PNV (Carlos Garaikoetxea) or EE (Juan María Bandrés)
1984: PNV (Carlos Garaikoetxea)
1986: EA (Carlos Garaikoetxea)
1990: PNV (José Antonio Ardanza)
1994: PNV (José Antonio Ardanza)
1998: PNV (Juan José Ibarretxe)
2001: PNV-EA (Juan José Ibarretxe)
2005: PNV-EA (Juan José Ibarretxe)
2009: PNV (Juan José Ibarretxe)
2012/2013: Bildu or PNV
I'd vote similarly in general elections

4. If you want and understand the fun world of Canarian politics, regional elections in the islands:
1983: CDS
1987: CDS
1991: PSOE
1995: PSOE
1999: PSOE
2003: PSOE
2007: PSOE or NCa
2011: NCa

5. Euros:
1987: CDS (Eduard Punset) or UE-EB (Jon Gangoiti)
1989: CN (Jon Gangoiti) or IdP (Juan María Bandrés)
1994: CN (Josu Jon Imaz)
1999: CN-EdP (Josu Ortuondo)
2004: Galeusca (Ignasi Guardans)
2009: CE (Ramon Tremosa)
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Antonio V
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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2011, 01:18:24 pm »
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PSOE all the way.

Don't know enough the regional sub-party systems.

Somebody didn't read my Guide! <angry smilie>



Well, yeah. Sad I'm sorry. Sad
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Quote from: IRC
22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It REALLY is.



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
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« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2011, 01:22:00 pm »
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I'm a PSOE hack Wink

If I were Spanish like you, I'd be PSOE hack too Wink
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Niemeyerite
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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2011, 01:56:04 pm »
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I'm a PSOE hack Wink

If I were Spanish like you, I'd be PSOE hack too Wink

=)

___

Hash, you'd vote Ibarretxe in 2009 and 2005, really? What do you like about him?

And I still can't understand your vote on Bildu. It was understandable before May elections... but Martin Garitano has proven to be a bad person, almost a terrorist. and Juan Karlos Izaguirre, mayor of San Sebastian, is worse than Garitano... a terrorist, but a dumb one.
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My evolution (by The Political Matrix):
E: -6.06 -> -6.97 -> -6.97 -> -8.13 -> -7.29 -> -8.26 -> -8.65 -> -7.03
S: -6.78 -> -6.09 -> -7.30 -> -7.13 -> -8.09 -> -8.35 -> -9.04 -> -8.61
PASOK Leader Hashemite
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« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2011, 03:04:04 pm »
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Hash, you'd vote Ibarretxe in 2009 and 2005, really? What do you like about him?

And I still can't understand your vote on Bildu. It was understandable before May elections... but Martin Garitano has proven to be a bad person, almost a terrorist. and Juan Karlos Izaguirre, mayor of San Sebastian, is worse than Garitano... a terrorist, but a dumb one.

I sympathize with Basque nationalism. I like to cling to hopelessly stupid notions of nineteenth century 'Romantic' sub-state nationalism. The PNV is the party which is the closest to my views on the matter and I tend to support them. Ibarretxe isn't perfect, and neither is the PNV. They're not anything close to a fabulous party, but then again no Spanish political party is all that good. But they're closest to my views. I can't say I entirely agree with the Ibarretxe plan and especially the parts on citizenship vs. nationality which is a very slippery slope, but I can agree, as a sympathizer of Basque nationalism, with the aim it embodies. The PSE-EE is undoubtedly a decent party too and their hearts are generally in the good place when it comes to the national question. But how do you expect me (knowing my views and all) to vote for the party which now governs through a pact with the viscerally anti-Basque PP? (though it's slightly less bad now that it isn't led by the racists Oreja or San Gil). What is quite amusing when you consider how Patxi Lopez won the PSE's leadership from Redondo's gang in 2002. Amusing but it also makes him both dishonest and a swindling for pacting with the PP.

Calling Bildu a "terrorist force" is a mix of excessive hyperbole, dishonesty and overblown exaggeration. I can certainly see why somebody would strongly dislike Bildu and hate the guts of its leaders. That's quite understandable. I myself am not a fan of their little separatist posturing and their provocative symbolic gestures. But what is wrong is calling Bildu a "terrorist party". That's dishonest. Have its leaders, in the recent past, condoned any terrorist attack? Have they themselves committed acts of terrorism? Have they praised terrorism? Have they advocated the use of political violence and terrorism as a means of achieving their goals? Has Izaguirre, the "terrorist", planted a bomb himself? Have its leaders called on ETA to take up arms again and keep murdering innocents? Only a Francoist hack can answer 'yes' to any of the above. None of what they have done in power constitutes 'terrorism'. Moves in favour of etarra prisoners and their families are not acts of terrorism. They may, from your perspective, be equivalent to terrorism because of guilt by association (which is a weird position to hold in this case considering ETA's prisoners have, in majority, condemned violence); but I think from my perspective - I'm not a sympathizer of ETA - those actions are not akin to terrorism. If there is to be reconciliation, as there should be, then the issue of prisoners needs to be on the table. Supporting an end to the 'dispersion of prisoners' is not terrorism, in fact it's a normal political belief. Helping etarra families is not an act of terrorism either. As for the other symbolic provocative gestures... what do you expect? They're separatists. They're not going to sing the national anthem or fly the Spanish flag with pride anytime soon.

I understand why you may hate them. They're separatists. They act irrationally. They do stupid things. They repeat provocative gestures and incidents which angers many. They have not called on ETA to formally disarm. But calling them 'terrorists' is... how should I say... totally wrong? None of what they have done so far constitutes acts of terrorism. In fact, they have condemned ETA's violence and unambiguously supports peaceful, democratic ways for achieving their aims. They have stated that the Hipercor attack was 'more than a mistake'. They have even said that one day there would be need to speak about 'the pains caused' by ETA's actions. Calling them terrorists is merely writing them off and the ideas they uphold - some of which are good. It is an ad hominem attack and it is the equivalent of Fox News' various incendiary statements about 'teh libruls'. You can disagree with them, hell that's politics, but you go nowhere and only act like an immature hack when you write them off as "terrorists".

I don't necessarily like Bildu (though I could have voted for them) or particularly care deeply about them, but I defend their right to participate in the democratic process. Their ideals and aims, like them or not, are shared by a significant portion of the Basque electorate. In a democratic society founded on the right to participate, the freedom of speech, freedom and so forth all parties - even if they uphold the most repulsive views (racism, condoning terror, Nazism etc) - have a right to exist and participate. Is a country where parties can be banned from participating in the political process a real democracy? Those parties may be awful parties who deserve to be kicked in the balls, but they express the political, legitimate opinions of at least some people in a democratic society even if those people don't support that same democratic society. By banning Bildu, its antecedents and so forth you are basically preventing (not actually, but theoretically) up to one-fourth of the Basque population from political participation and representation! Is that democracy? You'll tell me that ETA isn't democratic either and that ETA's violence totally rejects democracy as it is. It does. But, sadly, ETA's goals are supported by some citizens. By banning those citizens from expressing their legitimate, albeit heinous and repulsive, political opinions, you are taking away their right to political participation, political expression and political representation. Is a society where certain people can't participate, express themselves and be represented politically a true democracy? For me, the right to participation and expression is one of the founding blocks of democracy. Take away that right from a handful of people, and you are already undermining the foundations of democracy just like political terrorism undermines it. As much as people hold repulsive political views and as much as I personally would like those people to DIAF at times, I recognize and respect their right to political expression even though it results in something I hate (eg: the Harper government) or in something disgusting (eg: far-right parties). As far as I'm concerned, every convinced democrat should to. Those who don't undermine the foundings of democracy.
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« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2011, 03:50:57 pm »
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They didn't do all you said, because if they had done it, they wouldn't have been able to run in May elections. But ETA is intelligent. they're running Bildu with unknown people, ETA supporters, who have never been famous by their political views (excluding Garitano, the "GARA" jornalist, who, yes, was, and is, an etarra).

My english is not good enough to answer all that... but I have friends in the Basque Country, one of them is Arizt Arrieta, who succeded Isaias Carrasco as General Secretary of PSOE in Mondragon after ETA killed him. And I've talked to Patxi Lopez, Odon Elorza among others, and everybody knows ETA is USING the democracy to get money and power.
I have also one good friend who is PeNeuVista, Alvaro Lopez de Verde. A nationalist, no doubts. He lives in Bilbao. And agrees Bild and ETA are the same thing.
You may know a lot about Basque politicians... unfortunately, you have to VISIT it and talk to the people to know if I'm being dishonest Smiley

Talking about the PSE-PP pact... well, Patxi would have not done that if Ibarretxe wasn't PNV's candidate. Put Erkoreka there, and you would have a PNV lehendakari and a PSE vicelehendakari. It was necessary to "kill" Ibarretxe politically. PSOE voters wouldn't have understood why Ibarretxe continued there if Patxi could have governed himself.

And Basagoiti had promissed not to enter the Basque Government. In fact, Patxi prefers to pact with the PNV.

Hash, I know you like Spain a lot. You should really visit my beautiful country, and talk to Bildu, PSOE, PP, PNV, CiU.. voters. I think you would understand my views on Bildu. ETA has hurt Spain a lot, lots of people have been killed by them, innocent people... And Garitano appeared the other day on TV with etarra's families, ETA has done SOME WRONG THINGS IN CATALUNYA!!!!!!!!!!!!! What about the wrong things (only some) in the rest of Spain?

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My evolution (by The Political Matrix):
E: -6.06 -> -6.97 -> -6.97 -> -8.13 -> -7.29 -> -8.26 -> -8.65 -> -7.03
S: -6.78 -> -6.09 -> -7.30 -> -7.13 -> -8.09 -> -8.35 -> -9.04 -> -8.61
Elyski
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« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2011, 03:27:25 pm »
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1. All general elections since 1931 assuming you lived in a region with no major regionalist party (excluding Euskadi, Catalonia, Galicia, Canaries, Navarre)
1931: PRR
1933: CEDA
1936: CEDA
1977: UCD
1979: UCD
1982: AP
1986: CP
1989: PP
1993: PP
1996: PP
2000: PP
2004: PP
2008: PP
2011: PP

2. Assuming you lived in Catalonia, regional elections:
1980: CiU
1984: CiU
1988: CiU
1992: CiU
1995: CiU
1999: CiU
2003: CiU
2006: CiU
2010: CiU

3. Assuming you lived in Euskadi, regional elections:
1980: AP
1984: AP
1986: AP
1990: PP
1994: PP
1998: PP
2001: PP
2005: PP
2009: PP
2012/2013: PP

4. If you want and understand the fun world of Canarian politics, regional elections in the islands:
1983: PP
1987: PP
1991: PP
1995: CC
1999: CC
2003: CC
2007: CC
2011: CC

Euro:
1987: PP
1989: PP
1994: CiU
1999: CiU
2004: CiU
2009: CiU
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Mynheer Peeperkorn
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« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2011, 06:59:08 am »
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4. If you want and understand the fun world of Canarian politics, regional elections in the islands:


Hey, I got canarian friends ¬¬
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