SENATE BILL: OSPR Amendment (Passed)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 11:53:23 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Government (Moderators: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee, Lumine)
  SENATE BILL: OSPR Amendment (Passed)
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6
Author Topic: SENATE BILL: OSPR Amendment (Passed)  (Read 8063 times)
Napoleon
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,892


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2011, 10:01:25 PM »

AMENDMENT

Article 3, Section 2.3 is removed.
Logged
bgwah
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,833
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.03, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2011, 10:04:29 PM »
« Edited: September 24, 2011, 10:56:14 PM by bgwah »

AMENDMENT

Article 3, Section 2.3 is removed.

Senators have 24 hours to object.

nvm
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2011, 10:13:38 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.



Unless Snowguy's motion for cloture is rescinded, no new amendments maybe entered/considered, till cloture is voted down.
Logged
bgwah
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,833
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.03, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2011, 10:55:55 PM »

Didn't see Snowy's post, my bad.

Scratch that last post of mine! We are now voting on cloture.

(yankee has to change the thread title)
Logged
Napoleon
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,892


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2011, 11:01:36 PM »

No
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2011, 01:54:27 AM »

Nay


This is why I hate the cloture procedure in most circumstances. In my opinion, we should only use it to stop the rogue amender/filibusterer.  Also, I think it would be respectfull to defer to the bill sponsor as to whether such is necessary, unless he is the rogue.

Other then that, if you think it is time to call it quits and start a vote, just call for a final vote. If no debate has occured for 24 hours the PPT can open a vote. If debate has occured, the PPT can use the UC get around (if someone disagrees, they can object during the 24 period). Either is much cleaner then having debate get interrupted by a failed to launch cloture motion (2 or 3 posts dealing with procedural administration, rather than 10-12 and a possibly page change). In this instance, I think debate had been occuring so the UC would have been necessary. Napoleon could have entered a pre-objection when he posted his amendment (or a defacto one just be posting the amendment itself), which would allow the PPT to proceed with the amendment in question and ignore the call for a final vote. Since the debate rule is triggered, the motion for a final vote is not a procedural motion, as such would be barred by said debate rule. It is thus instead, an informal request of the PPT to use UC.

It only sounds confusing. Tongue

Logged
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 112,700
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #56 on: September 25, 2011, 03:07:32 PM »

Aye
Logged
Ban my account ffs!
snowguy716
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,632
Austria


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #57 on: September 25, 2011, 07:38:16 PM »

Aye

I support using cloture in such cases because oftentimes someone will just chime in with "Oh I think this bill is great!" at 23 hours and 40 minutes and reset the clock for another 24 hours and it goes on for days and days at a time.

So I call for a cloture vote, which is what cloture votes are designed for... to close debate.  They can also be used to end filibusters, etc.

But when I was PPT I got tired of having people chime in every 23 hours or so and then the bill, which is due for a vote, would languish and take up a slot.  So I'd call for a cloture vote.  Fairly simple.

But yes, I understand your concerns, and I mean no disrespect to the bill sponsor.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2011, 07:46:43 PM »

Aye

I support using cloture in such cases because oftentimes someone will just chime in with "Oh I think this bill is great!" at 23 hours and 40 minutes and reset the clock for another 24 hours and it goes on for days and days at a time.

So I call for a cloture vote, which is what cloture votes are designed for... to close debate.  They can also be used to end filibusters, etc.

But when I was PPT I got tired of having people chime in every 23 hours or so and then the bill, which is due for a vote, would languish and take up a slot.  So I'd call for a cloture vote.  Fairly simple.

But yes, I understand your concerns, and I mean no disrespect to the bill sponsor.


A vote can take days as well. With the UC get around we enacted in July, the PPT can have a final vote open in 24 hours, regardless of who chimes in what.
Logged
Ban my account ffs!
snowguy716
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,632
Austria


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2011, 09:16:01 PM »

Aye

I support using cloture in such cases because oftentimes someone will just chime in with "Oh I think this bill is great!" at 23 hours and 40 minutes and reset the clock for another 24 hours and it goes on for days and days at a time.

So I call for a cloture vote, which is what cloture votes are designed for... to close debate.  They can also be used to end filibusters, etc.

But when I was PPT I got tired of having people chime in every 23 hours or so and then the bill, which is due for a vote, would languish and take up a slot.  So I'd call for a cloture vote.  Fairly simple.

But yes, I understand your concerns, and I mean no disrespect to the bill sponsor.


A vote can take days as well. With the UC get around we enacted in July, the PPT can have a final vote open in 24 hours, regardless of who chimes in what.
And not every bill is going to have unanimous consent.. in fact, I'd say most bills will not.  UC is used for non-controversial bills, especially emergency ones.  I'd say we should avoid using UC except in those cases and use cloture to end debate in any bill that might garner opposition.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2011, 09:20:39 PM »

Aye

I support using cloture in such cases because oftentimes someone will just chime in with "Oh I think this bill is great!" at 23 hours and 40 minutes and reset the clock for another 24 hours and it goes on for days and days at a time.

So I call for a cloture vote, which is what cloture votes are designed for... to close debate.  They can also be used to end filibusters, etc.

But when I was PPT I got tired of having people chime in every 23 hours or so and then the bill, which is due for a vote, would languish and take up a slot.  So I'd call for a cloture vote.  Fairly simple.

But yes, I understand your concerns, and I mean no disrespect to the bill sponsor.


A vote can take days as well. With the UC get around we enacted in July, the PPT can have a final vote open in 24 hours, regardless of who chimes in what.
And not every bill is going to have unanimous consent.. in fact, I'd say most bills will not.  UC is used for non-controversial bills, especially emergency ones.  I'd say we should avoid using UC except in those cases and use cloture to end debate in any bill that might garner opposition.

Ah! Snowguy, but you are confusing the two different UC procedures. You are thinking of the one for minimum debate times. The one for avoiding cloture votes is for "when there is a consensus that work is done". Only a RowanBrandon type would oppose going to a final vote on a bill they oppose. Tongue
Logged
bgwah
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,833
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.03, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2011, 09:37:29 PM »

Aye. There is such a large queue!
Logged
bgwah
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,833
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.03, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #62 on: September 26, 2011, 11:22:34 PM »

Current cloture vote is 3-2...

A two-thirds majority is required. So we'll have to wait for 6 ayes or 4 nays.

*waits*
Logged
CatoMinor
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,007
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #63 on: September 27, 2011, 10:05:07 PM »

Nay
Logged
Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 24,020


Political Matrix
E: -1.94, S: -3.13

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #64 on: September 27, 2011, 10:19:38 PM »

Nay
Logged
bgwah
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,833
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.03, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #65 on: September 27, 2011, 10:50:20 PM »

With 4 nays, the 2/3 threshold has not been met. Debate resumes.
Logged
Fuzzybigfoot
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,211
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #66 on: September 28, 2011, 04:38:26 AM »

Aye
Logged
Napoleon
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,892


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #67 on: September 28, 2011, 01:47:45 PM »

AMENDMENT

Article 3, Section 2.3 is removed.
Logged
bgwah
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,833
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.03, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #68 on: September 28, 2011, 03:07:09 PM »

Senators have 24 hours to object to the sponsor's amendment.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #69 on: September 28, 2011, 05:43:07 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.




I am afraid I will have to object to the removal of this clause

I would support upping the concurrence requirement to 2/3rds which is in line with similar passages elsewhere in the OSPR. I don't recall ever seeing this actually invoked and should the standard be increased, I doubt it would ever be, unless it is being thoroughly abused to the point of motivating a super majority to use it. Thus it hardly hinders the actions of the PPT.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #70 on: September 28, 2011, 05:47:26 PM »

I offer this amendment to Article 3, Section 2, Clause 3:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.



Logged
Napoleon
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,892


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #71 on: September 28, 2011, 06:38:52 PM »

I offer this amendment to Article 3, Section 2, Clause 3:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.


Friendly


Logged
bgwah
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,833
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.03, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #72 on: September 28, 2011, 08:52:32 PM »

Alright, we're debating Napoleon's amendment right now. Due to NCY's objection, I'll bring it to a vote once the appropriate time limit has passed.
Logged
bgwah
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,833
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.03, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #73 on: September 29, 2011, 10:30:19 PM »

We are now voting on the following amendment. Please vote aye, nay, or abstain.

Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #74 on: September 29, 2011, 10:37:17 PM »

Nay, retain the leash, but increase the length.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.053 seconds with 13 queries.