Death Penalty: Cruelty out of Sight, out of Mind

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

When I think of heinous crimes committed, without mercy, it's hard to be against the death penalty.
But when I think of the death penalty itself, what is done to take power over a person's life and death, my perspective changes.
We have come along way in our society to reduce the violence of the death penalty method - or so we let ourselves believe. But really the "humaneness"  of a killing has less to do with making death painless and more to do with letting the punishers escape the feeling of guilt.

Read this article by Radley Balko about how and why Americans support the death penalty

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/radley-balko/death-penalty-support-america_b_984931.html?page=4

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[Associate Justice PiT]

     Aye, people enjoy deluding themselves. Just think about what public opinion of the death penalty would be if the primary method of execution were still drawing and quartering.

[Franzl]

It's something that just seems to be more trouble than it's worth, however you look at it and disregarding any moral issues.

[minionofmidas]

The least painful method of execution (to have actually been used, anyhow) is still the guillotine. The reason it's not used is the resulting fountain of blood. Same thing.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

The least painful method of execution (to have actually been used, anyhow) is still the guillotine. The reason it's not used is the resulting fountain of blood. Same thing.

Exactly. Lethal injection, for example, seems almost like a medical procedure, but if I could (and had to) choose between guillotine and injection (and we all heard of multiple problems with injection), I'd go with French way.

[Peeperkorn]

Sociologically useless and ethically wrong whatever morals you have.  It's a shame for humankind that it still exists in some countries.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The least painful method of execution (to have actually been used, anyhow) is still the guillotine. The reason it's not used is the resulting fountain of blood. Same thing.

Exactly. Lethal injection, for example, seems almost like a medical procedure, but if I could (and had to) choose between guillotine and injection (and we all heard of multiple problems with injection), I'd go with French way.

I'd go with the firing squad method myself.

The other horrible thing about lethal injection is that it turns medicine into killing. If it's a doctor who does that, it goes against the Hippocratic oath.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

The least painful method of execution (to have actually been used, anyhow) is still the guillotine. The reason it's not used is the resulting fountain of blood. Same thing.

Exactly. Lethal injection, for example, seems almost like a medical procedure, but if I could (and had to) choose between guillotine and injection (and we all heard of multiple problems with injection), I'd go with French way.

I'd go with the firing squad method myself.

The other horrible thing about lethal injection is that it turns medicine into killing. If it's a doctor who does that, it goes against the Hippocratic oath.

And it's also a lottery, much like the electric chair. Odds of a botched execution are disturbingly high.

[Cincinnatus]

The least painful method of execution (to have actually been used, anyhow) is still the guillotine. The reason it's not used is the resulting fountain of blood. Same thing.

Exactly. Lethal injection, for example, seems almost like a medical procedure, but if I could (and had to) choose between guillotine and injection (and we all heard of multiple problems with injection), I'd go with French way.

I'd go with the firing squad method myself.

The other horrible thing about lethal injection is that it turns medicine into killing. If it's a doctor who does that, it goes against the Hippocratic oath.

And it's also a lottery, much like the electric chair. Odds of a botched execution are disturbingly high.

Yes.  I certainly would not want to be killed by firing squad or electric chair.  Perhaps they should just put prisoners in shut garages and turn on the car.  Far better way to go, no?

Edit:  I don't in anyway support the death penalty

[Peeperkorn]

I don't see the point of -opossing the end- discuss the means.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I'm against the death penalty, but not on the basis of cruelty, moreso on the basis of religion, but not by much. Mainly I'm against it due to the fact that it sets up the government to determine if you've done something that makes you unworthy to live. I know the potentiality of it coming to the point where it is grossly abused might be close to nil (or it might be huge), but still. I prefer setting up hard labor camps to have the prisoners do something useful.

[angus]

I don't see the point of -opossing the end- discuss the means.

I was thinking that as well.  If you're against capital punishment, then there is no suitable means.  Bizarre thread.

Of course, if you're for it, then I think it's a reasonable question.  And if you're for it because you favor the punitive aspect of it, then strapping them to a stake over a pyre seems like the way to go.

[TJ in Oregon]

First off, I want to make it absolutely clear that I am opposed to capital punishment. (ie. I am not actually in favor of what I am about to say...)

But, if we are going to have capital punishment anyway, wouldn't it make more sense to try to maximize the publicity of it? Wouldn't serve as a bit of a crime deterent if we had public hangings and beheadings instead of all this needle stuff? I can understand the goal of minimizing the suffering for the person being executed so I certainly don't want some kind of torturous, painful death penalty, but why not bring back the guillotine?

[angus]

I prefer setting up hard labor camps to have the prisoners do something useful.

This is why you're stalin. 

I can understand the goal of minimizing the suffering for the person being executed

What's the point?  I suppose your specific reasoning for objection determines that, really.

FWIW, I'm against capital punishment as well.  And trying to make it painless offers me absolutely no consolation--unless I were the convicted, then I suppose it might.  But in the abstract I don't necessarily favor using methods more "humane" as it not only misses the point of opposition, but also makes the public more accepting of capital punishment. 

[Peeperkorn]

But, if we are going to have capital punishment anyway

You should fight against it.

[Peeperkorn]

But in the abstract I don't necessarily favor using methods more "humane" as it not only misses the point of opposition, but also makes the public more accepting of capital punishment. 

This.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I don't see the point of -opossing the end- discuss the means.

I was thinking that as well.  If you're against capital punishment, then there is no suitable means.  Bizarre thread.

Of course, if you're for it, then I think it's a reasonable question.  And if you're for it because you favor the punitive aspect of it, then strapping them to a stake over a pyre seems like the way to go.

The point is that the means we choose is to look humane, not really being humane itself, so that we can feel better about what we're doing.

[angus]

The point is that the means we choose is to look humane, not really being humane itself, so that we can feel better about what we're doing.

I get the point of the article.  What I don't get is that if you're really opposed to capital punishment, and want to end it, then why favor a veneer of humanity, since doing so will have the opposite effect. 

It's a bit like a vegetarian eating ToFurky, really.  It tastes nasty, it looks nasty, and you clearly didn't want to eat a bird in the first place, so why make something that tastes bad and resembles something you didn't want to eat?  Do yourself a favor and have a chocolate malt or something. 

[TJ in Oregon]

But, if we are going to have capital punishment anyway

You should fight against it.

Okay, I mean I could stage a protest or write editorials or something of the like, but that's really about it. If we ever have a capital punishment refferendum in Ohio, I'll vote that way. If somehow, in a strage and unexpected whim of the voters, I found myself in the appropriate elected office, I'd certainly try to ban it.

If you were refering to this forum, I wrote up a lengthy response to a different capital punishment thread making that argument. It's a little strange to repeat it every time, though I often re-iterate a generic capital punishment opposition when it comes up.

[Peeperkorn]

Humanism has nothing to do with killing.

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That's a good start.

[minionofmidas]

I don't see the point of -opossing the end- discuss the means.

I was thinking that as well.  If you're against capital punishment, then there is no suitable means.  Bizarre thread.

Of course, if you're for it, then I think it's a reasonable question.  And if you're for it because you favor the punitive aspect of it, then strapping them to a stake over a pyre seems like the way to go.

May I suggest the good ole medieval method, used IIRC for utterers of false coin, of boiling in the pot?