Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
August 28, 2014, 06:16:50 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  Political Debate (Moderator: Beet)
| | |-+  Gun Control
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: Gun Control  (Read 1696 times)
hawkeye59
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2763
United States


View Profile
« on: September 10, 2011, 12:10:02 pm »
Ignore

In my opinion, we should ban all guns except for hunting purposes, and I would also limit hunting.
Banning guns/strict gun laws work
Examples:
USA- lax gun laws 15 people killed by guns per 100,000 a year
Switzerland-lax gun laws-6 people per 100,000
Uk-bans guns- 0.49 for England/Wales per 100,000, 0.6 for Scotland
Hong kong-bans guns 0.19 per 100,000
Japan-bans guns 0.07 per 100,000
South Korea-bans guns- 0.13 per 100,000
If we banned guns, we would have a lot less gun-related deaths.
Logged

My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.  So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world.-Jack Layton 1950-2011
A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on-John F. Kennedy 1917-1963
hawkeye59
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2763
United States


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2011, 12:36:22 pm »
Ignore

So what does everyone else think? I hope this will be a civilized discussion.
Logged

My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.  So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world.-Jack Layton 1950-2011
A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on-John F. Kennedy 1917-1963
Kalwejt
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 36863


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2011, 12:53:59 pm »
Ignore

Gun control certainly works when it's coming to reduce gun-related killings. Even moderate, after all, Brady Bill saved thousands of lives.

However, I wouldn't agree with you that guns should be limited to hunting only. What about shooting as a sport discipline? I think that category, regulated carefully as well, should be included too (I enjoy shooting to the targets myself).
Logged
hawkeye59
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2763
United States


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2011, 12:54:56 pm »
Ignore

Gun control certainly works when it's coming to reduce gun-related killings. Even moderate, after all, Brady Bill saved thousands of lives.

However, I wouldn't agree with you that guns should be limited to hunting only. What about shooting as a sport discipline? I think that category, regulated carefully as well, should be included too (I enjoy shooting to the targets myself).
I forgot that. Yes, that would also be allowed, but limited. But not for non-sporting purposes.
Logged

My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.  So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world.-Jack Layton 1950-2011
A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on-John F. Kennedy 1917-1963
Thomas D
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3467
United States


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2011, 01:01:14 pm »
Ignore

I don't like guns. I don't own one myself. And I think automatic weapons should be banned. But if someone wants to keep a handgun in their nightstand for protection I don't think the government should stop them.
Logged
J. J.
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 32037
United States


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2011, 01:07:16 pm »
Ignore

I'm generally opposed.  Some adult that is without a record and sane should be able to buy an carry a gun.
Logged

J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
Likely Voter
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4607


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2011, 01:17:22 pm »
Ignore

I have always thought the 2nd amendment was an anachronism and more to do with the era. I dont think we should ban guns, but it shouldn't be so easy to get them either. Not sure exactly how and where to draw the line. After the shooting in NV last week and the shooting in Tuscon in Jan shows that there needs to be some way to keep crazy people from getting guns, but not sure how you do that.
Logged

Carlos Danger
wormyguy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8404
Liechtenstein


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2011, 01:44:09 pm »
Ignore

Lying sure is fun!  Unfortunately, claiming that the US has more gun-related homicides than the total homocide rate in Mexico (which bans guns!) just makes you look retarded.
Logged

shua
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11305
Russian Federation


View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2011, 02:04:55 pm »
Ignore

In my opinion, we should ban all guns except for hunting purposes, and I would also limit hunting.
Banning guns/strict gun laws work
Examples:
USA- lax gun laws 15 people killed by guns per 100,000 a year
Switzerland-lax gun laws-6 people per 100,000
Uk-bans guns- 0.49 for England/Wales per 100,000, 0.6 for Scotland
Hong kong-bans guns 0.19 per 100,000
Japan-bans guns 0.07 per 100,000
South Korea-bans guns- 0.13 per 100,000
If we banned guns, we would have a lot less gun-related deaths.
Where did you get these numbers? There's no way Switzerland is higher than UK, much less 10x higher.
Logged

Jbrase
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5922
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.32, S: -5.74


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2011, 02:11:03 pm »
Ignore

Opposed.

People have a right to defend themselves. For those who stayed awake in their history classes, if they even mentioned it, I am sure you would recall that the Armenians were forced to give up their firearms to the Ottoman Empire shortly before the Armenian Genocide. And we all know how much safer the people in the Soviet Union were after they imposed gun control.




Logged

Username MechaRFK
RFK
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1275
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -5.16, S: -7.30

View Profile
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2011, 02:12:16 pm »
Ignore

Gun control... I'm moderate on. Weapons such as hunting rifles I'm okay with others as long as there is background check to make sure the individual has never committed any crimes in regarding to guns and other weapons.

Guns such as AA-12... there is no reason for someone to own such a dangerous piece of weapon. I mean, do you honesty believe someone should go around the street and carrying this? If you do believe the individual should go around the street and blowing people heads off away until some corrupt cop comes out of his car and kills the individual with the AA-12... you have mental problems.



Logged



 
GM Napoleon
Napoleon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15413


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2011, 02:59:12 pm »
Ignore

The statistics you present do not make your argument for you. It is a logical fallacy. What is behind the gun related deaths? Self-defense during a home invasion? Homicide by an already illegal firearm? What you have presented actually has nothing to do with your topic. I read that and I think "So what?". There has to be something more.
Logged

When I was in the third grade, I thought that I was Jewish
Because I could count, my nose was big, and I kept my bank account fullish
I told my mom, tears blurring my vision
He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
morays or demon
Ghost_white
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3622


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2011, 03:29:01 pm »
Ignore

The statistics you present do not make your argument for you. It is a logical fallacy. What is behind the gun related deaths? Self-defense during a home invasion? Homicide by an already illegal firearm? What you have presented actually has nothing to do with your topic. I read that and I think "So what?". There has to be something more.

Assuming those were real statistics they don't really take into account regional or racial differences either, which skew the crime rate statistics a lot in general for the US. Also:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/03/national/main576422.shtml
Logged


That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
hawkeye59
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2763
United States


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2011, 03:33:35 pm »
Ignore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
Logged

My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.  So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world.-Jack Layton 1950-2011
A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on-John F. Kennedy 1917-1963
GM Napoleon
Napoleon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15413


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2011, 03:51:18 pm »
Ignore

1/2 suicide? A gun is probably the least of their issues.
Logged

When I was in the third grade, I thought that I was Jewish
Because I could count, my nose was big, and I kept my bank account fullish
I told my mom, tears blurring my vision
He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
Mechaman
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13807
Jamaica


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2011, 04:06:41 pm »
Ignore

1/2 suicide? A gun is probably the least of their issues.

And Switzerland?  A vast majority of those firearm related deaths (let me see here 5.61/6.4*100=87.65625%, since I'm an honest user of statistics) are suicides!
Yeah, lax gun laws in Switzerland are sure making them murder crazed psychopaths.

Want a civil debate?  Well you can start by being a little goddamn honest.  6 people per 100,000 in Switzerland aren't killed by guns, 5.61 per 100,000 in Switzerland kill themselves with guns!
Like Americans, the Swiss apparently have major depression issues.
Logged



23:19   Xahar   you're literally a white dude Mechaman
Carlos Danger
wormyguy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8404
Liechtenstein


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2011, 04:19:52 pm »
Ignore

One might also note that the US suicide rate is below average - the highest suicide rates in the world are found in Sweden and Japan.
Logged

hawkeye59
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2763
United States


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2011, 04:22:05 pm »
Ignore

Still, countries with less strict gun laws tend to have more murders than countries with stricter gun laws. Fine, I'll do murders.
Even just with murders
Us-7.07
Switzerland-0.58
England/Wales 0.07
Scotland 0.2
Hong Kong 0.12
South Korea 0.04
Japan 0.02
Logged

My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.  So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world.-Jack Layton 1950-2011
A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on-John F. Kennedy 1917-1963
shua
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11305
Russian Federation


View Profile WWW
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2011, 05:10:05 pm »
Ignore

Still, countries with less strict gun laws tend to have more murders than countries with stricter gun laws. Fine, I'll do murders.
Even just with murders
Us-7.07
Switzerland-0.58
England/Wales 0.07
Scotland 0.2
Hong Kong 0.12
South Korea 0.04
Japan 0.02
Just note that you're talking about homicide by firearms. Also some of the figures in that article are nearly two decades old. If you look at overall more recent murder rates (not just guns), Switzerland is lower than the other countries you listed.
Logged

IDS Attorney General PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22463
United States


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2011, 05:43:14 pm »
Ignore

     Gun violence is really a cultural thing. Switzerland has really liberal gun laws & a very low homicide rate. For that matter, so does Vermont. To say that banning guns reduces gun murders misses the issue that people in the countries where they are banned in many cases never used guns much anyway, hence why they were banned there when attempts in the United States & Switzerland have been less successful.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 05:47:23 pm by Emperor PiT »Logged

hawkeye59
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2763
United States


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2011, 06:05:58 pm »
Ignore

Still, countries with less strict gun laws tend to have more murders than countries with stricter gun laws. Fine, I'll do murders.
Even just with murders
Us-7.07
Switzerland-0.58
England/Wales 0.07
Scotland 0.2
Hong Kong 0.12
South Korea 0.04
Japan 0.02
Just note that you're talking about homicide by firearms. Also some of the figures in that article are nearly two decades old. If you look at overall more recent murder rates (not just guns), Switzerland is lower than the other countries you listed.
The issue here is gun control, correct?
Also, I didn't want to ban guns, I would ban all but for hunting/sporting purposes.
Logged

My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.  So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world.-Jack Layton 1950-2011
A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on-John F. Kennedy 1917-1963
#Ready4Nixon
Cathcon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15050
United States


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2011, 07:07:48 pm »
Ignore

I've never owned a gun, and I'm neither a hunter nor someone who would find a gun useful in case they got mugged on the way to school, so I never really felt the connection to guns that other Conservatives might have. That said, when I turn eighteen, I fully intend on using my right to bear arms and own a gun. In case of the zombie apocalypse, collapse of government, dictatorship, burglar in my house, etc., I plan on owning a gun. Therefore, I believe that at least some guns should be legal, though my opinion isn't as formed on things like assault rifles (but hey, who wouldn't want one? Hell, once I start exercising my right to bear arms, I might get one!).
Logged

dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21948
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.84, S: -4.52

View Profile
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2011, 06:45:28 am »
Ignore

You Gun Control people should be happy that the people you vote for have dropped this issue.
Logged

Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
hawkeye59
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2763
United States


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2011, 06:49:35 am »
Ignore

You Gun Control people should be happy that the people you vote for have dropped this issue.
Yeah, I agree that it's a vote-loser. But sometimes, the things you think are right must be done, not saying this is necessarily right, just that I would because I think it is.
Logged

My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair.  So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world.-Jack Layton 1950-2011
A man may die, nations may rise and fall, but an idea lives on-John F. Kennedy 1917-1963
shua
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11305
Russian Federation


View Profile WWW
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2011, 10:58:35 am »
Ignore

Still, countries with less strict gun laws tend to have more murders than countries with stricter gun laws. Fine, I'll do murders.
Even just with murders
Us-7.07
Switzerland-0.58
England/Wales 0.07
Scotland 0.2
Hong Kong 0.12
South Korea 0.04
Japan 0.02
Just note that you're talking about homicide by firearms. Also some of the figures in that article are nearly two decades old. If you look at overall more recent murder rates (not just guns), Switzerland is lower than the other countries you listed.
The issue here is gun control, correct?

Yes, but I don't really see how being killed with a gun is worse than being killed any other way.
Logged

Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines