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| | |-+  Do generous welfare states inevitably drift towards isolationism & xenophobia?
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Question: Do generous welfare states inevitably drift towards isolationism/xenophobia?
Yes   -10 (29.4%)
Often, but not inevitably   -8 (23.5%)
No   -16 (47.1%)
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Total Voters: 34

Author Topic: Do generous welfare states inevitably drift towards isolationism & xenophobia?  (Read 877 times)
Jacobtm
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« on: September 12, 2011, 12:37:45 pm »
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You build up a generous welfare state. Quality public schooling for everyone, quality infrastructure, universal healthcare, the whole deal.

Then immigrants come in.

The narrative is all too common. Nationalists say ''they'' don't respect ''our'' society. ''They'' only come to take ''our'' services. ''They'' are parasites on ''us''.

And the drift towards isolationism and xenophobia commences.

Re: Europe
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Why do so many people here cheer on war crimes?
Israel and the United States "killing dozens of civilians with explosives", as you phrase it, has, throughout history, almost always been a good thing.
Californian Tony
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2011, 12:50:18 pm »
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Is scandinavia the most xenophobic part of Europe ? Is Southern Europe the least xenophobic one ? Are underdevelopped welfare-less countries in Africa or Asia less xenophobic than Europe ?

Conclusion : fail.
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Franzl
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2011, 12:57:03 pm »
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Is scandinavia the most xenophobic part of Europe ? Is Southern Europe the least xenophobic one ? Are underdevelopped welfare-less countries in Africa or Asia less xenophobic than Europe ?

Conclusion : fail.

Pretty much...I agree.
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angus
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2011, 01:28:05 pm »
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Do generous welfare states inevitably drift towards isolationism & xenophobia?

Not necessarily.  consider the Tahuantinsuyu.  It was the best, and perhaps the only good, example of a socialist/imperialist empire.  By definition imperialist, due to its extension of cultural power and economic dominion by direct territorial acquisitions.  And by definition socialist, since the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution of capital lay with the community as a whole.  

Now, it is well-known, and it had been observed by Pizarro and others during the Spanish Conquest, that poverty was nearly eliminated in the Tahuantinsuyu, owing to the system by which the Inca was able to deliver grains and other goods, rapidly and efficiently, from regions of plenty to regions stricken by drought or flood.  Common men and women were treated much more equally than in Spain.  Education was free and compulsory.  Boys at the age of 13 and girls at the age of first menstruation had their intelligence tested by the local Inca officials, and pupils were tracked and educated appropriately.  Taxes were high, of course, since the Inca maintained a complex system of roads and communication routes.  And penalties for legal infractions were severe--For example, the punishment for adultery was death--but elders and invalids were well cared for by society, and the wealth was distributed to all.  Poets and artisans enjoyed presitge, and public works were constantly being constructed.  Medicine, in the form of surgery as well as herbal remedies, were generally available to all.  Hard work was expected from all and beggars simply did not exist.

There is no evidence of a drift toward isolationism among the Inca.  In the ever-expanding Tahuantinsuyu, when new peoples were conquered, such as when the Inca army made its way north into what is now Ecuador, the native populations of the conquered lands were not brutalized.  Nor were the conquered peoples treated as inferior.  At least we have no evidence of this sort of xenophobia.  Rather the opposite:  in order to make their new Inca rulers more palatable, the Inca subtly infused the mythological and religious traditions of conquered peoples into the pantheon of Inca tradition.  The city god of Quito remained the city god of Quito, even after Quito became part of the Tahuantinsuyu.  All subjects of the empire were allowed to worship their ancestral gods as long as they accepted the supremacy of Inti, the sun god.  

No isolationism had yet become apparent in the expansion of the Inca.  And the only force that really halted their march was the force of guns and horses brought by Spaniards.  

There are probably other examples of societies with expansive welfare states which did not drift into isolationism and xenophobia.  But I'm more familiar with that of the Quechua-speaking peoples of the Andes, having spent some time in Peru and having read a number of academic treatises by Hiram Bingham and others of their society.  Anyway, one counterexample serves to make the point that isolation and xenophobicity does not necessarily follow from wealth redistribution.  
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 01:47:05 pm by angus »Logged
greenforest32
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« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2011, 03:22:01 am »
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Is scandinavia the most xenophobic part of Europe ? Is Southern Europe the least xenophobic one ? Are underdevelopped welfare-less countries in Africa or Asia less xenophobic than Europe ?

Conclusion : fail.
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King
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« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2011, 12:39:38 pm »
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Regions prone to immigration inevitably drift towards isolationism and xenophobia.

See: Countless refugee-plagued African nations, Arizona.
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Ghyl Tarvoke
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« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2011, 02:00:59 pm »
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No.

Question doesn´t dignify a response more much comprehensive than that.
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Quote from: Liveline On Séan Quinn
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Guess it's a question of perspective & choice of narrative method ...

... and that, by the way, is also one of the reasons why none of Eric Hobsbawm's books has been turned into a succesful Broadway musical so far.
republicanism
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« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2011, 02:45:15 pm »
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No.

Question doesn´t dignify a response more much comprehensive than that.

This.
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Social score: -0.17



Californian Tony
Antonio V
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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2011, 02:52:12 am »
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So, everybody who cared to express an opinion in this thread agree that this theory is utter bullsh*t, yet the poll is about evenly split. LOL.
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Truer today than it was yesterday.



"A good portion of this country has created an alternate universe. I call this place were these folks live Bullsh*t Mountain. The denizens of Bullsh*t Mountain believe many things: they believe that a Kenyan Muslim President has fundamentally changed the relationship between government and the people of this country."

Jon Stewart
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2011, 02:10:55 pm »
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So, everybody who cared to express an opinion in this thread agree that this theory is utter bullsh*t, yet the poll is about evenly split. LOL.

The majority is always silent.  That's what makes them so dangerous.
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Link
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« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2011, 08:33:47 pm »
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No.

Question doesn´t dignify a response more much comprehensive than that.

This.

This.
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Insane quote of the year-

"Every aspect of life in America is worse than when he [Obama] took over" -Marco Rubio
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