Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 21, 2014, 03:09:16 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion
| |-+  Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections (Moderator: Joe Republic)
| | |-+  NOW, NARAL, etc., it's time for a war
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 Print
Author Topic: NOW, NARAL, etc., it's time for a war  (Read 5510 times)
Harry
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18967
United States


View Profile
« on: September 12, 2011, 09:49:02 pm »
Ignore

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/12/mississippi-personhood-law-abortions_n_959100.html

Quote
Mississippi voters will be allowed to decide on a ballot measure that defines "personhood" from the moment of fertilization, the Mississippi Supreme Court ruled last week. The measure could potentially outlaw abortions, birth control, in vitro fertilization and stem cell research across the state.

Measure 26, which will bypass the legislature and go straight to a popular ballot vote, redefines the term "person" as it appears throughout Mississippi's Bill of Rights to include "all human beings from the moment of fertilization, cloning or the functional equivalent thereof." The American Civil Liberties Union of Mississippi, Planned Parenthood and the Center for Reproductive Rights filed a lawsuit against the proposal earlier this year, not based on its content or constitutionality, but because Mississippi state law says a ballot initiative cannot be used to change the Bill of Rights.

...

This is way beyond a simple abortion ban.  No exception for rape!?!  No MAP for rape victims?!?  No in vitro!?!  No exceptions for health of the mother?!?!  Birth control illegal?!?

If this passes, our teen pregnancy (already #1 in the nation) will skyrocket, our poverty rate will skyrocket, our state debt will skyrocket (both in increased welfare, etc., and in defending this obviously-will-be-eventually-thrown-out case), and the now-illegal (and thus more dangerous) abortion rate will skyrocket.

This will fail even in Mississippi if the voters realize how far-reaching it is.  But someone has to make sure it's known.  I think the Yes on 26 movement is essentially trying to sneak this on the ballot and hope it just passes, and that's exactly what's going to happen in NOW/NARAL/etc. don't get their act together.
Logged
Sam Spade
SamSpade
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 27871


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2011, 09:59:38 pm »
Ignore

So, we already know the measure will get all white voters except for Harry, and maybe a couple of women who still have clotheshangers stuck in their body.

The real question is how many black votes will it get.
Logged
nclib
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8791


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2011, 10:38:59 pm »
Ignore

I once saw a paragraph by a group advocating for this (fetal personhood, not necessarily Miss.) that claimed that

[I'm paraphrasing, but the bold is accurate]

fetuses should have the same rights as all other people BORN in America.

Consistency is not their strength.
Logged



[George W. Bush] has shattered the myth of white supremacy once and for all. -- Congressman Charles Rangel (D-NY)

"George Bush supports abstinence. Lucky Laura."
- sign seen at the March for Women's Lives, 4/25/04

realisticidealist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6552
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: 3.48

View Profile
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2011, 11:14:43 pm »
Ignore

Hopefully it passes. Knowing Mississippi, it has a chance.
Logged

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return."
Governor TJ
TJ in Cleve
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4898
United States


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2011, 11:23:41 pm »
Ignore

Sure I hope it passes but I seriously doubt it won't be overturned by the courts.
Logged

Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
htmldon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8876
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.03, S: -2.26

View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2011, 11:27:10 pm »
Ignore

Now might be a good time to set up a Birth Control shop at the state line... kinda like fireworks stands.
Logged
black and white band photos
BRTD
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 72228
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2011, 11:28:45 pm »
Ignore

Meh, courts will toss it anyway.
Logged



Green = Fake Scotland
Red = Real Scotland


01/05/2004-01/10/2014
Harry
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18967
United States


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2011, 11:32:28 pm »
Ignore

Sure I hope it passes but I seriously doubt it won't be overturned by the courts.
you hope that rape victims won't be able to have the MAP?  It would be one thing if this were a simple abortion ban...I wouldn't agree with you, but I could accept your opinion.  This is way beyond that, though.

Meh, courts will toss it anyway.
Eventually, but what about in the lag time between the passage and the tossing?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 12:05:38 am by No on 26 »Logged
realisticidealist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6552
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: 3.48

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2011, 02:14:30 am »
Ignore

Sure I hope it passes but I seriously doubt it won't be overturned by the courts.
you hope that rape victims won't be able to have the MAP?  It would be one thing if this were a simple abortion ban...I wouldn't agree with you, but I could accept your opinion.  This is way beyond that, though.

If you're defining life as beginning at conception, as this measure does, then the morning after pill, which prevents implantation, effectively kills a person by starving them to death, in essence. The rape part is irrelevant.
Logged

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return."
greenforest32
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2556


Political Matrix
E: -7.94, S: -8.43

View Profile
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2011, 03:28:16 am »
Ignore

I feel sorry for any liberal living in a bible belt state. I would have to leave due to getting pissed off every day from the theocratic conservatism. How do you manage?
Logged
Ebowed
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16382
Australia


Political Matrix
E: -8.32, S: -9.30

View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2011, 03:39:25 am »
Ignore

If you're defining life as beginning at conception, as this measure does, then the morning after pill, which prevents implantation, effectively kills a person by starving them to death, in essence. The rape part is irrelevant.

Generally not even doctors consider the pregnancy to have begun until implantation*, as many blastocysts will be unsuccessful in reaching that stage.  The morning after pill is, of course, only a potential abortifacient, preventing implantation thereby killing a blastocyst in the event that one has been created.  I don't know if it would be quite fair to equate this with starving a person to death, though no doubt if 'personhood' begins at conception, then the zygote with its undetermined chance of survival and the famished are one and the same.

*This can explain a discrepancy found in some literature about related subjects, namely if someone is hoping to advance the viewpoint that life begins at conception, all of the dates and times in a pregnancy will move ahead two weeks (and the pregnancy in total takes two weeks longer), as it is, it would seem, easier to redefine pregnancy rather than go into technical details.
Logged

A tidal wave of healthcare has swept across coal country. 
RomneyGekko Situation Hairgel
Flyers2004
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10527


Political Matrix
E: -3.48, S: -4.87

View Profile
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2011, 11:22:07 pm »
Ignore

And I thought Pennsylvania was a theocratic nightmare!
Logged


DOUCHEBAGGERY AT ITS FINEST!
shua
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11428
Russian Federation


Political Matrix
E: 2.06, S: -4.52

View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2011, 11:26:51 pm »
Ignore

If it passes, it will be on record as an abstract principle but have no practical effect.
Logged

Invisible Obama
DrScholl
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3477
United States



View Profile
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2011, 11:49:55 pm »
Ignore

I expect that to get a very large margin, but I also am anxious to see how black voters sign off on it. When it comes to social conservatism in the south, there can be very little racial polarization.
Logged
Scott
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18806
United States
View Profile
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2011, 12:23:27 am »
Ignore

I expect that to get a very large margin, but I also am anxious to see how black voters sign off on it. When it comes to social conservatism in the south, there can be very little racial polarization.
Don't be too sure.  Sure, it might pass.  But narrowly.  Remember that Colorado defeated its measure overwhelmingly, even though it isn't the most socially liberal state in the country.

I'm not sure how much of an impact this will have if it passes, but this is a very important issue that people need to know about.
Logged
Ogre Mage
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2055
United States


Political Matrix
E: -4.00, S: -4.35

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2011, 01:27:02 am »
Ignore

Sure I hope it passes but I seriously doubt it won't be overturned by the courts.
you hope that rape victims won't be able to have the MAP?  It would be one thing if this were a simple abortion ban...I wouldn't agree with you, but I could accept your opinion.  This is way beyond that, though.

Meh, courts will toss it anyway.
Eventually, but what about in the lag time between the passage and the tossing?

I am not a lawyer, but because this state initiative conflicts with federal precedent set by Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey, I do not think the law would be allowed to immediately go into effect if it passed.  But that is a murky question which would probably require a court hearing of its own.  Yes, this is the strategy by the "pro-life" movement these days, to define personhood at the moment of conception.  It was popular during the 1980s, fell out of fashion during the 1990s but now seems to be making a comeback.  I'm sorry that the pro-choice movement is basically dead in your state.  This law is insidious in its potentially far-reaching effects and inexcusable in my view.
Logged
Harry
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18967
United States


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2011, 01:27:10 pm »
Ignore

Jim Hood and Johnny DuPree both "support" this abomination.  That disappoints me a lot.

Unless something changes and there's a chance of DuPree winning or Hood losing, I'm probably going to be leaving those races blank on my ballot.
Logged
Harry
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18967
United States


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2011, 05:46:54 pm »
Ignore

Haven't seen any no on 26 commercials yet, but Parents Against 26 published this excellent video against the initiative:
http://youtu.be/r_Cfi8cf9co

I hope they'll be able to use this theme in TV commercials closer to the election date (assuming they have the money)
Logged
Rochambeau jk I'm Hamilton
Conservatarian1989
Full Member
***
Posts: 113
United States
View Profile
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2011, 06:04:36 pm »
Ignore

As a Pro Lifer, I strongly support this.
Logged

Economic Score: +7.48
Social Score: -3.15

Conservatarian...live from Colorado! Cheesy
Harry
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18967
United States


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2011, 06:11:47 pm »
Ignore

As a Pro Lifer, I strongly support this.

Do you support abortion being illegal even in the case of rape? What about to save the life of the mother?
Do you think birth control pills and in vitro fertilization should be illegal?
Do you support DAs having the authority to investigate miscarriages as they see fit?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 06:13:30 pm by No on 26 »Logged
realisticidealist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6552
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: 3.48

View Profile
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2011, 06:34:13 pm »
Ignore

As a Pro Lifer, I strongly support this.

Do you support abortion being illegal even in the case of rape? What about to save the life of the mother?
Do you think birth control pills and in vitro fertilization should be illegal?
Do you support DAs having the authority to investigate miscarriages as they see fit?

I can't speak for Conservatarian, but for the me, the answers are yes, no, maybe depending on a number of factors, and I've never really thought about it but probably no, respectively.
Logged

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return."
The Professor
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 93


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2011, 02:06:27 pm »
Ignore

As a Pro Lifer, I strongly support this.

I'll give you some reefer if you change your support to against this measure
Logged
Ebowed
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16382
Australia


Political Matrix
E: -8.32, S: -9.30

View Profile WWW
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2011, 02:10:31 pm »
Ignore

As a Pro Lifer, I strongly support this.

I'll give you some reefer if you change your support to against this measure

I'm pretty sure that dude stops being pro-life as soon as secondhand smoke gets involved, Professor.
Logged

A tidal wave of healthcare has swept across coal country. 
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58778
India


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2011, 02:49:06 pm »
Ignore

Birth control illegal?!?

What!?
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
Marston
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 339
United States


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2011, 02:42:37 pm »
Ignore

Yeah, most guys, sadly enough, don't understand how a baby is made. If you want to legislate sexual organs then you should at least have a working knowledge of the ovaries, uterus, fertilization, implantation, etc. Unfortunately, this is not usually the case.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines