Platform Discussion

[12th Doctor]

Well, I have finally gotten around to it.  You all know what this party stands for at its core and those of you who have joined have done soon because you believe in the ideals of the party.  Now let us see if we can hammer out a more specific platform that every member of the Freedom Party can be proud of.

[12th Doctor]

I'll start with some issues to get us moving:  Abortion, Capital Punishment, Tax policy

[The Duke]

Foreign Affairs Rough Draft (Excluding the War on Terrorism)

Globalization- Globalization is a positive process that breeds peace and prosperity.  Nations that trade together rarely wage war together.  By advancing the process of globalization, we can make America and the world safer. more prosperous, and more free.

Africa- Africa is poor not because of western exploitation, but because of corrupt governance.  Only by supporting emerging democracies like those in Kenya and Botswana and opposing dictators like those in Zimbabwe and Sudan can we end this cycle of suppression of political freedom and economic opportunity.  Foreign aid to Africa needs to be icnreased through the USAID program.  For only $15 billion a year, according to studies by the UN, we could provide basic nutrition and medical care to every child in the third world.  We can and should do this.

Latin America- The first priority here should be to prepare for the inevitable demise of Fidel Castro and advance the cause of the opposition to Hugo Chavez in Venezuela.  Our second goal should be the globalize Latin America through advocating the FTAA.

Europe- A European superstate is not in America's interests.  Nor is it in Europe's interests.  Only a select few bureaucrats in Strasbourg benefit, while the real ails of Europe continue to erode away the home of western civilization.  European protectionism hurts American businesses and the third world, and it should be ended.  If Europe continues its unfair trade practices, we will work through the WTO to bring about an end to this practice.

India- India, the worlds largest democracy, is a potential long term US ally. We had ought to pursue expanded trade relations and military cooperation.  They understand the threat of radical Islam and the power of democracy.  They are a natural friend to America, and we should stop treating them like a second tier nation in terms of their importance to us.

Russia- Russia has become the arms dealer to the world.  We need to oppose Russian attempts to exert its influence over Eastern Europe, including their audacious moves in Ukraine and Georgia.  We should continue the Nunn-Lugar program to safeguard Russian nuclear materials.  We need to prepare our own military to deal with hostile nations that will arm themselves with top end Russian weapons and treat Vladmir Putin as someone not to be trusted.

China- China has become the single most hostile nation on Earth outside the Middle East.  We had ought to begin holding them accountable for their illegal occupations of Tibet, their beligerrence towards Taiwan, and there support for facist governments in North Korea and Burma.  They are not a free nation, we are.  We must oppose their anti-freedom agenda as we contained a similar agenda when espoused by the USSR.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Latin America- The first priority here should be to prepare for the inevitable demise of Fidel Castro and advance the cause of the opposition to Hugo Chavez in Colombia.  Our second goal should be the globalize Latin America through advocating the FTAA.

Unless somehow the Republic of Gran Colombia has been revived while I wasn't paying attention, shouldn't that be Hugo Chavez of Venezuela?

[Colin]

Foreign Affairs Rough Draft (Excluding the War on Terrorism)


Africa- Africa is poor not because of western exploitation, but because of corrupt governance.  Only by supporting emerging democracies like those in Kenya and Nigeria and opposing dictators like those in Zimbabwe and Sudan can we end this cycle of suppression of political freedom and economic opportunity.  Foreign aid to Africa needs to be icnreased through the USAID program.  For only $15 billion a year, according to studies by the UN, we could provide basic nutrition and medical care to every child in the third world.  We can and should do this.

I know I'm not Freedom Party but you may want to exclude Nigeria from there. Nigeria has been becoming increasingly dictatorial in recent years and the dictator in that country only stepped down in 1998. This is not the type of Democracy Atlasia should back. I would say replace Nigeria with Botswana which has been a functioning Democracy for over 45 years and has been free of the corruption and rampant political turmoil that has plagued other African nations.

[Gustaf]

I agree with Ford on all the stuff he said.

ABortion is not an issue really linked to the core of the party's beliefs, so I'm not sure whether it should be included or not. I'd favour a centrist policy, but I'm open to suggestions.


Capital Punishment is sort of similar. I'm personally against it, in times of peace.

On tax policy, we should support some sort of progressive tax, but a generally low tax level that encourages business and hard work.

[The Duke]

Latin America- The first priority here should be to prepare for the inevitable demise of Fidel Castro and advance the cause of the opposition to Hugo Chavez in Colombia.  Our second goal should be the globalize Latin America through advocating the FTAA.

Unless somehow the Republic of Gran Colombia has been revived while I wasn't paying attention, shouldn't that be Hugo Chavez of Venezuela?

Woops.  My bad.

Foreign Affairs Rough Draft (Excluding the War on Terrorism)

Africa- Africa is poor not because of western exploitation, but because of corrupt governance.  Only by supporting emerging democracies like those in Kenya and Nigeria and opposing dictators like those in Zimbabwe and Sudan can we end this cycle of suppression of political freedom and economic opportunity.  Foreign aid to Africa needs to be icnreased through the USAID program.  For only $15 billion a year, according to studies by the UN, we could provide basic nutrition and medical care to every child in the third world.  We can and should do this.

I know I'm not Freedom Party but you may want to exclude Nigeria from there. Nigeria has been becoming increasingly dictatorial in recent years and the dictator in that country only stepped down in 1998. This is not the type of Democracy Atlasia should back. I would say replace Nigeria with Botswana which has been a functioning Democracy for over 45 years and has been free of the corruption and rampant political turmoil that has plagued other African nations.

Noted.  While I still have great hopes for Nigeria, Botswana is the more clear cut choice.

[12th Doctor]

I agree with Ford on all the stuff he said.

ABortion is not an issue really linked to the core of the party's beliefs, so I'm not sure whether it should be included or not. I'd favour a centrist policy, but I'm open to suggestions.


Capital Punishment is sort of similar. I'm personally against it, in times of peace.

On tax policy, we should support some sort of progressive tax, but a generally low tax level that encourages business and hard work.

I agree with you that John Ford's foriegn policy is very good.  I would add that strong relations with India would act as an effective counter-balance to Chinese power.  We need to work hard, however, to resolve the differences between India and Pakistan.  Both are key allies for us and I see both as being important to the world's future.

I must dissagree with you, Gus.  I think that abortion and capital punishment go to the heart of this party.  As a populist party, we must see that these issues are crucial to the average people of Atlasia.

I propose that we take a middle road that reflects the compassion of the party, but does not ignore present realities.  We cannot overturn the culture of abortion in our country, but we can do everything in the power of this government to convince a woman to take a baby to term.  We should loosen adoption restrictions, create federally funded programs that provide for maternity training and expenses.  After the child is born, the government should do everything in its power to assure that an unwed, unpartnered mother has some form of job training and monitary protection.  These programs wouldn't cost that much, I would have to run some numbers, but it could be done for a small cost to the government and tax payers and the benefits to society would be worth it.  Granted, there would be abuses, but that is an exceptable cost toward saving lives.

Capital Punishment should be voided for all but the worst of offenders (large scale drug dealers, mass murderers, terrorists).  I think that we should work on rehabilitation through spiritual means of some sort, for lifers.  We should also figure out something that these people can do for the community, once rehabilitated (for instance, training dogs for the blind).  In the end, this would benefit society in tangable and intangable ways, making us all better for it in the end.

Well, what do you guys think?

[WMS]

Super, I like your ideas quite a bit. Your abortion position sounds a lot like what I mentioned in my campaign speech. Same for John Ford. There's been nothing bad so far from anyone. I'll say more later - I have Christmas shopping to do in a bit.

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"Stepped down" *snicker* Well, that's one way to put it...

[The Duke]

On abortion, we should endorse the measures Super suggested because our job is to make it easier for citizens to make responsible choices, but I agree with Gus that abortion should not be a central issue.  It tends to divide people.  We should welcome pro-life and pro-chocie members and do everything we can to discourage abortions.

We should not, however, shy away from parental notification and partial birth abortion laws.  Reasonable people can disagree about whether abortion is wrong, but I think some of the periphery questions related to abortion are not in doubt.

Agree with Gus 100% on taxes, agree that the death penalty should only be used in extreme cases like terrorism or treason.

[12th Doctor]

On abortion, we should endorse the measures Super suggested because our job is to make it easier for citizens to make responsible choices, but I agree with Gus that abortion should not be a central issue.  It tends to divide people.  We should welcome pro-life and pro-chocie members and do everything we can to discourage abortions.

We should not, however, shy away from parental notification and partial birth abortion laws.  Reasonable people can disagree about whether abortion is wrong, but I think some of the periphery questions related to abortion are not in doubt.

Agree with Gus 100% on taxes, agree that the death penalty should only be used in extreme cases like terrorism or treason.

I should have phrased that better, the right to abortion, per se should remain a non-party issue, but preventence of it, though a social safty net should be a central issues.  I agree with Gus's tax policy as well.

[Gustaf]

Super, I basically meant what Ford said. I am fully willing to accept the kind of policy on abortion you mention. On the Death Penalty, my personal belief is that it should not be used in peace. This would basically be the same thing as what Ford talks about, treason and terrorism.

Glad to see you guys agree with me on taxes. Seems like we're making good progress so far then.

For a potentially more divisive issue: free trade? I am, as you probably already know, a free trader.

[Josh/Devilman88]

I agree with Ford on all the stuff he said.

ABortion is not an issue really linked to the core of the party's beliefs, so I'm not sure whether it should be included or not. I'd favour a centrist policy, but I'm open to suggestions.


Capital Punishment is sort of similar. I'm personally against it, in times of peace.

On tax policy, we should support some sort of progressive tax, but a generally low tax level that encourages business and hard work.

I agree with you that John Ford's foriegn policy is very good.  I would add that strong relations with India would act as an effective counter-balance to Chinese power.  We need to work hard, however, to resolve the differences between India and Pakistan.  Both are key allies for us and I see both as being important to the world's future.

I must dissagree with you, Gus.  I think that abortion and capital punishment go to the heart of this party.  As a populist party, we must see that these issues are crucial to the average people of Atlasia.

I propose that we take a middle road that reflects the compassion of the party, but does not ignore present realities.  We cannot overturn the culture of abortion in our country, but we can do everything in the power of this government to convince a woman to take a baby to term.  We should loosen adoption restrictions, create federally funded programs that provide for maternity training and expenses.  After the child is born, the government should do everything in its power to assure that an unwed, unpartnered mother has some form of job training and monitary protection.  These programs wouldn't cost that much, I would have to run some numbers, but it could be done for a small cost to the government and tax payers and the benefits to society would be worth it.  Granted, there would be abuses, but that is an exceptable cost toward saving lives.

Capital Punishment should be voided for all but the worst of offenders (large scale drug dealers, mass murderers, terrorists).  I think that we should work on rehabilitation through spiritual means of some sort, for lifers.  We should also figure out something that these people can do for the community, once rehabilitated (for instance, training dogs for the blind).  In the end, this would benefit society in tangable and intangable ways, making us all better for it in the end.

Well, what do you guys think?

I agree.. But mayb them people can like.. take classes to be what ever they want. Like if someone wants to be a cook they could take classes to be a cook and ect.

[Beet]

You all know what this party stands for at its core

Sorry, I wasn't around during the formation of the party. Is there a link as to the party's origins and broad purposes?

[12th Doctor]

You all know what this party stands for at its core

Sorry, I wasn't around during the formation of the party. Is there a link as to the party's origins and broad purposes?

Don't feel left out, I was the only member for about 2 1/2 weeks, so no one was really there for the formation of the party.  Here is the thread that started it all, however...

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=12819.0

[12th Doctor]

Common fellas.  Lets get yapping.

[Gustaf]

Beet, you're back!

Join us!

[WMS]

Common fellas.  Lets get yapping.

Hmm...

How about Regional Rights and Fair Electoral Laws? I'm going to be moving on those in the Senate anyway...

[The Duke]

War on Terrorism

The Enemy- The enemy is ot the tactic of terrorism, its is its practitioners and their ideology.  The name "War on Terrorism" is a misnomer.  We are fighting the ideology of Jihadism.  Our enemy is groups that kill in the name of Islam and their state sponsors in Iran, Syria, Sudan, and elsewhere.  Both the terrorist groups and their state sponsors must be confronted if we are to prevail.

Our Allies- Our allies are many.  We are joined in this fight by the braver nations of Europe who have chosen to stand up for free men and women and those who desire to be.  They have made a difficult choice, and they should be rewarded for their bravery with an America that stands by them as they stand by us.  We are joined by nations like Israel, India, Australia, and Japan who have suffered terrorist attacks in recent years and understand our struggle.  Our most important allies however are the moderates in the Muslim world.  They understand that life for Muslims will be better if we succeed, and they risk their lives everyday to stand up to the fanatics.

The Strategy- We will use military action to topple terrorist spnsoring states, denying terrorist groups that ability to operate from those states and cutting them off from a major source of funding.  We will seize their financial assets wherever possibl, further cutting them off from their money.  We will use covert action to seek out and defeat terrorists around the world before they can strike us.  We will support reformers in their efforts to transform their own societies with whatever they need to prevail.  We will minimize relations with nations that pretend to be our friends, but aid our enemies while our back is turned.  We will end foreign aid to nations that do not democratize, even if that is inconvenient for us.  We will urge friendly arab nations to reform themselves.  We will open our trade policies to reward nations that reform on their own.  We will increase foreign aid to nations that democratize and we will spend more to build prosperous societies in Iraq and Afghanistan.  We will win this war not only by defeating the Jihadists, but by transcending them.  We will be their moral superiors, giving our nation's all to spread freedom over facism in Arabia and creating civil societies that have consensual governments, tolerant cultures, and open economies.

[12th Doctor]

Once again, I see no objections to the Platform proposals of John Ford.

[Gustaf]

It costs nothing and also does not soften our actual policy to add a line that more specifically points out that moderate, democratic muslims are not among our enemies. (I know it is stated under allies, but it could be pointed out in the enemies section.) If we can gain anything by swallowing a little pride, why not?

Otherwise, excellent.

[The Duke]

Forum Issues

The Constitution- The current constitution has what are now universally recognized as major flaws.  We should hold a new constitutional convention to write a new, improved, constitution.  As our founders did after the Articles of Confederation failed, we should learn from our mistakes while keeping our founding principles intact.  The new Constitution should keep certain institutions like the Senate and Preisdency and Supreme Court intact, but should be altered in certain areas to clarify the various powers.

Forum Government- The lack of capable people to fill government positions is becoming noticeable.  New positions should not be created at any point inn the near future.  Fewer positions will mean better government.

Seperation of Powers- The Presidency has not produced great leaders.  Part of the problem is that President's have to deal with a disorganized Senate that moves at a snails pace.  The President had ought to have the power to introduce bills directly to the Senate with the power of refendum, meaning no amendments to the bill (like in the French system).  This will bring about a more effective institution of the Presidency and better governance for the Forum.  He had also ought to have the ower of Line Item Veto.  Any Line Item Veto would have to be overridden by 2/3s of the Senate, as with other bills.

The Budget- The government must establish a budget.  It must account for its spending every four months, with the new President submitting a budget to the Senate as his first official act.  The budget may not be subject to referendum because Senators should be able to amend it.  It will be, in the beginning, based on the actual US Federal Budget but obviously over time it will diverge from that beginning.

GM Reform- The GM should be reactive not proactive.  There are enough real-world crises like North Korea and Iraq to keep us all busy.  He had ought to replace his duty as scenario generator with one as the arbiter of the economy.  He will, on a monthly basis, generate based on government policy a GDP growth rate, an unemployment rate, and an inflation rate so the government may determine the state of the economy and make policy based on this.  In the beginning, this will be based on the actual numbers from real life, but will change according to government policy.

Senate Districts- Senators should be elected frm Regions, not districts.  Citizens are now numerous enough to allow this, whereas before there weren't enough voters in each region.  Voters should have the same pair of Senators and the same set of fellow constituents each time around.  Their Senators had also ought to represent something permament and with its own historic identity.  Re-districting has become increasingly convoluted, leading to charges of gerrymandering and undermining the process.  This can be rectified by electing Senators by region again.

[ilikeverin]

Senate Districts- Senators should be elected frm Regions, not districts. Citizens are now numerous enough to allow this, whereas before there weren't enough voters in each region. Voters should have the same pair of Senators and the same set of fellow constituents each time around. Their Senators had also ought to represent something permament and with its own historic identity. Re-districting has become increasingly convoluted, leading to charges of gerrymandering and undermining the process. This can be rectified by electing Senators by region again.

Yaaaay, the Midwest can be overrepresented again

[Gustaf]

I agree with most of this. However:

1) I'm not convinced that a budget and economy stuff won't be too much.

2) I disagree with the region stuff. Gerrymandering is part of the fun in fantasy elections. We need some dynamics and it gives the governors something to do. However, I could agree to giving the regions half the senate seats again. Overall though, the current system is mostly fine, IMHO.

[12th Doctor]

I agree with most everything here, John.  Except...

Forum Issues

Seperation of Powers- The Presidency has not produced great leaders.  Part of the problem is that President's have to deal with a disorganized Senate that moves at a snails pace.  The President had ought to have the power to introduce bills directly to the Senate with the power of refendum, meaning no amendments to the bill (like in the French system).  This will bring about a more effective institution of the Presidency and better governance for the Forum.  He had also ought to have the ower of Line Item Veto.  Any Line Item Veto would have to be overridden by 2/3s of the Senate, as with other bills.

The French President is practically a dictator.  I fear that such a broad violation of seperation of powers would lead to a strictly Presidential system.  As Vice-President I introduced a few bills.  I simply convince a Senator to sponser the legislation.  I find that this system works well enough.

GM Reform- The GM should be reactive not proactive.  There are enough real-world crises like North Korea and Iraq to keep us all busy.  He had ought to replace his duty as scenario generator with one as the arbiter of the economy.  He will, on a monthly basis, generate based on government policy a GDP growth rate, an unemployment rate, and an inflation rate so the government may determine the state of the economy and make policy based on this.  In the beginning, this will be based on the actual numbers from real life, but will change according to government policy.

I disagree with the idea that the GM should be purely economic.  Our actions world-wide are going to be different from those of the acctual United States and thus will result in different outcomes.  Perhapes two GM's one for domestic and one for foriegn policy would be in order.

Senate Districts- Senators should be elected frm Regions, not districts.  Citizens are now numerous enough to allow this, whereas before there weren't enough voters in each region.  Voters should have the same pair of Senators and the same set of fellow constituents each time around.  Their Senators had also ought to represent something permament and with its own historic identity.  Re-districting has become increasingly convoluted, leading to charges of gerrymandering and undermining the process.  This can be rectified by electing Senators by region again.

I strongly dissagree.  Frequent shifts in population mandate that we must have some sort of balancing system.  The districts do just that.  Also, we want this to be fun and competitive.  If we don't have conditions that can shift then incumbency will basically rule the day.

Alos, it gives parties some incentive to want to control the governorships.