Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
July 30, 2014, 04:10:14 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Please delete your old personal messages.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Discussion
| |-+  Constitution and Law (Moderator: True Federalist)
| | |-+  Abolition of the electoral college
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Poll
Question: When, in your opinion, will the electoral college be abolished?
by 2020
by 2030
by 2040
by 2050
at a later date
never
Show Pie Chart

Author Topic: Abolition of the electoral college  (Read 3502 times)
greenforest32
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2530


Political Matrix
E: -7.94, S: -8.43

View Profile
« on: September 18, 2011, 08:31:44 am »
Ignore

Hard to predict. I think it will depend on there being a certain political mood in the country (kind of like the era of EPA and all that environmental regulation). I don't think it will be gone by 2020 but I wouldn't be surprised to see the national popular vote compact adopted before the EC rightfully kicks the bucket.

Also this thread is weird. Where is the thread starter's first post?
Logged
dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21608
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.84, S: -4.52

View Profile
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2011, 08:34:38 am »
Ignore

Never
Logged

Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
Duke David
Atheist2006
Full Member
***
Posts: 240
Germany


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2011, 08:47:57 am »
Ignore

Also this thread is weird. Where is the thread starter's first post?

LOL

I'm asking that question myself.
The moderators seem to leave no doubt that they hate me. Wink
Logged

  Wink Cheesy Cool Embarrassed Grin Huh Kiss Lips sealed Roll Eyes Sad Shocked Smiley Tongue Undecided Angry
 
Economic: -8.30 / Social: +7.09

Duke David
Atheist2006
Full Member
***
Posts: 240
Germany


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2011, 08:50:38 am »
Ignore

Never

Tiny states like Nebraska benefit from the disproportional allocation of the electoral votes, of course...
Logged

  Wink Cheesy Cool Embarrassed Grin Huh Kiss Lips sealed Roll Eyes Sad Shocked Smiley Tongue Undecided Angry
 
Economic: -8.30 / Social: +7.09

Franzl
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21975
Germany


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2011, 09:01:20 am »
Ignore

Never

Depends really. You'd need another 2000-like case for it to be possible. And even then it might not happen.

Unlikely in my lifetime, I'd say.
Logged
dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21608
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.84, S: -4.52

View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2011, 11:28:58 am »
Ignore

Never

Tiny states like Nebraska benefit from the disproportional allocation of the electoral votes, of course...
And we've past laws to take away that advantage, if the big states did the same this would cease to be an issue.  But they don't.  Why?  Because it would, ironically, make them less important in Presidential elections.
Logged

Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
greenforest32
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2530


Political Matrix
E: -7.94, S: -8.43

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2011, 11:53:27 am »
Ignore

Never

Tiny states like Nebraska benefit from the disproportional allocation of the electoral votes, of course...
And we've past laws to take away that advantage, if the big states did the same this would cease to be an issue.  But they don't.  Why?  Because it would, ironically, make them less important in Presidential elections.

Eh? The real benefitters (sp?) of the electoral college are the swing states. The big states should get more attention as they have more people, but since the Electoral College elects the president rather than the popular vote candidates spend most of their time in swing states.

How do you think Republicans in California or Democrats in Texas feel? You think they approve of the electoral college? Nope.
Logged
dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21608
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.84, S: -4.52

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2011, 01:18:53 pm »
Ignore

Of course.  But my point still stands.  Nebraska (and Maine) have made changes to take away much of the (marginal) advantage small states have.  The bigger states could make these changes too, but they don't. 

But yes, the real "winners" under the electoral college system are the mid sized swing states.
Logged

Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
Duke David
Atheist2006
Full Member
***
Posts: 240
Germany


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2011, 01:36:08 pm »
Ignore

Of course.  But my point still stands.  Nebraska (and Maine) have made changes to take away much of the (marginal) advantage small states have.  The bigger states could make these changes too, but they don't. 

But yes, the real "winners" under the electoral college system are the mid sized swing states.

The reason Nebraska splits its electoral votes is its function as a stronghold.

Its government wanted both the GOP and the Dems to campaign in Nebraska.
Logged

  Wink Cheesy Cool Embarrassed Grin Huh Kiss Lips sealed Roll Eyes Sad Shocked Smiley Tongue Undecided Angry
 
Economic: -8.30 / Social: +7.09

Mechaman
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13724
Jamaica


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2011, 03:07:43 pm »
Ignore

Let's be real honest people:

Do you really think this nation would be around long enough to see such reform happen?
Logged

Marokai Besieged
Marokai Blue
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16698
United States


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2011, 06:52:31 pm »
Ignore

I wish, as I've sort of come around on this issue lately. But I seriously doubt it will happen in my lifetime, at least.
Logged

GM Napoleon
Napoleon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15383


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2011, 10:47:28 pm »
Ignore

I hate this conversation. The electoral college is the least of ours worries. We have fptp, gerrymandering, and awful campaign finance laws and we choose to focus on this?
Logged

When I was in the third grade, I thought that I was Jewish
Because I could count, my nose was big, and I kept my bank account fullish
I told my mom, tears blurring my vision
He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
RG Fritz
JLD
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5435
United States


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2011, 11:43:52 pm »
Ignore

If the interstate compact rendering the EC irrelevant ever becomes enacted, the country might- maybe, someday- go ahead and make it official.
Logged

greenforest32
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2530


Political Matrix
E: -7.94, S: -8.43

View Profile
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2011, 12:35:05 am »
Ignore

I hate this conversation. The electoral college is the least of ours worries. We have fptp, gerrymandering, and awful campaign finance laws and we choose to focus on this?

It's probably because it's the easiest to fix. Doesn't mean we can't focus on all those at once.
Logged
GM Napoleon
Napoleon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15383


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2011, 01:05:21 am »
Ignore

I hate this conversation. The electoral college is the least of ours worries. We have fptp, gerrymandering, and awful campaign finance laws and we choose to focus on this?

It's probably because it's the easiest to fix. Doesn't mean we can't focus on all those at once.

It is easy to fix if it isn't a real problem...I think bitterness about 2000 is way overstated and that the EC is an easy targets because it feels undemocratic. It is also a fix that is far less likely to change anything than the reforms I mentioned would.
Logged

When I was in the third grade, I thought that I was Jewish
Because I could count, my nose was big, and I kept my bank account fullish
I told my mom, tears blurring my vision
He said, "Mort, you've loved God since before circumcision"
greenforest32
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2530


Political Matrix
E: -7.94, S: -8.43

View Profile
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2011, 01:43:30 am »
Ignore

I hate this conversation. The electoral college is the least of ours worries. We have fptp, gerrymandering, and awful campaign finance laws and we choose to focus on this?

It's probably because it's the easiest to fix. Doesn't mean we can't focus on all those at once.

It is easy to fix if it isn't a real problem...I think bitterness about 2000 is way overstated and that the EC is an easy targets because it feels undemocratic. It is also a fix that is far less likely to change anything than the reforms I mentioned would.

I am not disputing that. I'd like to change them all. We haven't had any real electoral reform in decades.

And the electoral college did enable the Supreme Court to stop the Florida recount and hand Bush the Presidency in 2000. Certainly we could have done things better before that point (a better campaign and called for recounts right away), but it was still an option for them to use and they did.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 01:50:32 am by greenforest32 »Logged
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58783
India


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2011, 12:52:52 pm »
Ignore

Let's be real honest people:

Do you really think this nation would be around long enough to see such reform happen?
The Electoral College would not survive if America does not.
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
Torie
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 27165
United States


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2011, 08:58:50 pm »
Ignore

One little concern I have is this sort of LSD-like flashback, where Bush v Gore involves every precinct across the Fruited Plain.  Just a thought.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 09:46:01 pm by Torie »Logged
Franzl
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21975
Germany


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2011, 04:36:12 am »
Ignore

One little concern I have is this sort of LSD-like flashback, where Bush v Gore involves every precinct across the Fruited Plain.  Just a thought.

The probability of such an event is inflated by any random swing state being able to change the overall outcome.

Without the EC...2000 would have been no problem. Of course...if it is very close nationally, then we're in deep trouble. And we'd need nationwide election standards, of course.
Logged
Mechaman
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13724
Jamaica


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2011, 05:36:32 am »
Ignore

Let's be real honest people:

Do you really think this nation would be around long enough to see such reform happen?
The Electoral College would not survive if America does not.

It isn't called reform if everybody is dead Lewis.

Unless you're a Nazi Fascist.
[/Godwin]
Logged

True Federalist
Ernest
Moderator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 27839
United States


View Profile WWW
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2011, 03:23:54 pm »

Also this thread is weird. Where is the thread starter's first post?

LOL

I'm asking that question myself.
The moderators seem to leave no doubt that they hate me. Wink

Don't ask me how it happened.  But since I try to meet expectations unless I have a reason not to, I'll be certain to hate you from now on. Cool
Logged

I wonder why Van Heusen never bothered to make women's clothing?
lowtech redneck
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 282
View Profile
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2011, 01:59:12 am »
Ignore

Never, thank goodness; its advantagous to a majority of states.

We're still a federal Republic, guys...deal.
Logged
LastVoter
seatown
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4466
Thailand


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2011, 07:07:05 pm »
Ignore

I hate this conversation. The electoral college is the least of ours worries. We have fptp, gerrymandering, and awful campaign finance laws and we choose to focus on this?
I would like to see how a system other than fptp would work with electoral college in-tact.  That would be the joke of all jokes.
Logged
FloridaRepublican
justrhyno
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 458
United States


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2011, 07:11:44 pm »
Ignore

I hope it NEVER gets abolished. I love it.
Logged
True Federalist
Ernest
Moderator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 27839
United States


View Profile WWW
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2011, 12:12:08 am »

I hate this conversation. The electoral college is the least of ours worries. We have fptp, gerrymandering, and awful campaign finance laws and we choose to focus on this?
I would like to see how a system other than fptp would work with electoral college in-tact.  That would be the joke of all jokes.


Easy.  If all 50 States allocated their electoral votes proportionately, then the election would fairly often go the House to decide, which is what the Founders, who did not anticipate the rise of national political parties, thought would likely be the case in most elections after Washington.

Assuming that votes were unchanged under such a system, the most recent one to go to the House would probably be 1992. I worked out 1996 for one system of PR by State, thinking it would be the election, but I got:
Clinton   279
Dole       233
Perot       26

However since the wasted vote syndrome is negated to some extent, I think under such a system we'd see more third party voting and increased voting in highly partisan places.

Note that third parties suffer by the use of PR by state instead of nationwide.  Using the same system as I used above, but allocating all 538 EV as a single PR district, I got:

Clinton   269 (-10)
Dole       223 (-10)
Perot       46 (+20)

Which would not only have almost doubled Perot's EV count, it would have sent the election into the House.
Logged

I wonder why Van Heusen never bothered to make women's clothing?
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines