Regarding the current secession movement

[Antonio the Sixth]

I do hope that the SoFE will take note of what persons will be ineligible to vote in next weekend's election, having renounced Atlasian citizenship.

There is not legal procedure for "renouncing Atlasian citizenship". We tried to introduce a procedure for deregistration, but the bill failed.

Thus, it doesn't matter what Mecha or another guy says, they still have the right to vote.

[Mechaman]

I do hope that the SoFE will take note of what persons will be ineligible to vote in next weekend's election, having renounced Atlasian citizenship.

There is not legal procedure for "renouncing Atlasian citizenship". We tried to introduce a procedure for deregistration, but the bill failed.

Thus, it doesn't matter what Mecha or another guy says, they still have the right to vote.

Yes, see it's all about semantics people.

Nowhere in this thread (or anywhere else) do I mention anything about "seceding" from Atlasia.

[Fritz]

For the record, I don't take anything that is said or done within Atlasia seriously.  This is, after all, a game.  My real self actually enjoys seeing people revolt against the government, as it adds a little spice to the game.  My Atlasian persona (aka Fritz), being a former President and one who is widely regarded as being way too serious, of course will remain loyal to the government and condemn those who are in a state of rebellion.

Antonio makes a good point- I think he may be right, we don't have any laws that make rebels ineligible to vote.  I think they should be denied the right to vote anyway, as a matter of principle, and then the whole thing can be drawn into court.  Wouldn't that be fun? 

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I will gladly serve as a soldier in either side's army. Anybody recruiting?

[Mechaman]

For the record, I don't take anything that is said or done within Atlasia seriously.  This is, after all, a game.  My real self actually enjoys seeing people revolt against the government, as it adds a little spice to the game.  My Atlasian persona (aka Fritz), being a former President and one who is widely regarded as being way too serious, of course will remain loyal to the government and condemn those who are in a state of rebellion.

Antonio makes a good point- I think he may be right, we don't have any laws that make rebels ineligible to vote.  I think they should be denied the right to vote anyway, as a matter of principle, and then the whole thing can be drawn into court.  Wouldn't that be fun?  

^^^^
And therein lies the whole purpose of my initial outburst

The underlined portion would definitely be a fun and adventurous exercise.

Though, again let me bring up semantics.  Declaring that you have formed your own republic is definitely an act of rebellion, but what exactly is renouncing your citizenship?  Is it even possible to renounce yourself or does the Atlasian Census Bureau have ultimate authority in regards to your status as a national resident?
Personally, I wouldn't mind so much if the government would get rid of the citizenship of mangy hookers and racist dwarves, but hey that's just me.  I'm all for a diverse and open environment and culture and all but there are some people who just shouldn't mix into our society.  However, though I don't mind the government denying citizenship to the dredges and sh*tstains of society I must say I would like to move to Nova Scotia and raise my gay rottweilers in peace without the government coming after me, declaring me a rebel, and sticking a bayonet grenade up my ass (I'm really not into that sort of thing, though Kalwejt most certainly does).

Hehehehehe, big teeth grin

[Yelnoc]

I will gladly serve as a soldier in either side's army. Anybody recruiting?

Oh, you know I am

And that sounds like bundles of fun, Fritz.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I will gladly serve as a soldier in either side's army. Anybody recruiting?

Oh, you know I am

Oh goody! What side are you on again?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The fun part is when the rebels win and get to vote in elections for a country they don't even want to be a part of.

[ZuWo]

I will gladly serve as a soldier in either side's army. Anybody recruiting?

You can join the "Kentuckian Pro-Mideast/Anti-Secessionist Movement" which will defend the state I am a citizen of in the case of military aggression against Kentucky by any secessionist state.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

Quitting the game has been illegal for some time. If it was as simple as saying you are suddenly part of a new country, then everyone who wants to quit would do this. The only way that it could apply is if they truly started an insurrection towards the government, and that's up to the GM, and the SoIA.

So let me get this straight:

Leaving the country is supposedly illegal (according to the logic of your second sentence) but I can't get thrown out of the game for it?  Especially if we apply Snowguy's definition here?
So if we assume that treason is a crime that carries with it the highest of penalties (which I'm assuming is either a life sentence or a really long time in prison, since execution would be the equivalent of quitting the game) pretty much what you're saying is that Atlasians who go through with "seceding" are barred from voting and holding office?
I guess what I'm really trying to ask here Teddy is what's so different between those who decide to commit treasonous acts in this simulation and those whose registration has expired (and never return)?

Meh, should've voted for JJ.

You'd have to ask the courts.

All of this started when I said "doing this may mean your vote wont count" and it got interpreted as "doing this will mean your vote wont count".

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I will gladly serve as a soldier in either side's army. Anybody recruiting?

You can join the "Kentuckian Pro-Mideast/Anti-Secessionist Movement" which will defend the state I am a citizen of in the case of military aggression against Kentucky by any secessionist state.

I would gladly protect the great state of Kentucky, with its Appalachian mountains, coal mining, and Conservative peoples. However, I have recently offered my support to a different and far greater movement, the secession from Atlasia! However, should such services be rejected by those damn rednecks, I'll gladly join you in the upper south defending as well my native Michigan against such horrible agression.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I will gladly serve as a soldier in either side's army. Anybody recruiting?

Oh, you know I am

Oh goody! What side are you on again?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

The fun part is when the rebels win and get to vote in elections for a country they don't even want to be a part of.

This is what's so ridiculous about it all.

If these people are allowed to vote in the elections, I'm done with this joke of a game.  It's not even a little bit realistic anymore.. now it's just "tee hee.. there are no rules!  We just make sh**t up and "rebel" and vote anyway!"

[Ban my account ffs!]

Nevermind, I won't have to quit the game.  Thanks Bgwah for digging this up:


Section 3: Acts of Treason
The following acts are hereby declared Acts of Treason:
1. Rebellion, defined as the use of military forces to overthrow the Federal or any Regional government of Atlasia.
2. Aiding of a rebellion, defined as the fully knowing and intentional direction of funds, military aid, or strategic advice to a person or group seeking to engage in rebellion.
3. Terrorism, defined as the unlawful or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating civilians and/or the federal and/or regional governments of Atlasia.
4. Destruction of a Voting Booth, defined as deleting the thread in which a voting booth, or absentee voting booth, for an active election is contained.
Section 4: Punishment of Acts of Treason
Sentencing of Acts of Treason shall be by the presiding Justice; He may use any combination of the following as punishment, depending upon the severity of the offense:
1. Up to a lifetime ban from voting in any Atlasian elections.
2. Up to a lifetime ban from holding any office under the Republic of Atlasia.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Nevermind, I won't have to quit the game.  Thanks Bgwah for digging this up:


Section 3: Acts of Treason
The following acts are hereby declared Acts of Treason:
1. Rebellion, defined as the use of military forces to overthrow the Federal or any Regional government of Atlasia.
2. Aiding of a rebellion, defined as the fully knowing and intentional direction of funds, military aid, or strategic advice to a person or group seeking to engage in rebellion.
3. Terrorism, defined as the unlawful or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating civilians and/or the federal and/or regional governments of Atlasia.
4. Destruction of a Voting Booth, defined as deleting the thread in which a voting booth, or absentee voting booth, for an active election is contained.
Section 4: Punishment of Acts of Treason
Sentencing of Acts of Treason shall be by the presiding Justice; He may use any combination of the following as punishment, depending upon the severity of the offense:
1. Up to a lifetime ban from voting in any Atlasian elections.
2. Up to a lifetime ban from holding any office under the Republic of Atlasia.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Jesus F**king Christ...

You know what? I feel really bad right now. First, I made a little joke and in next second, I hear my friend calling my other friends "traitors", I hear about taking away right to vote. And for what? For something that had no practical meaning at all? For what, that did not threaten Atlasia even for a second?

Now, mark my words, if anyone is going to be punished because of this bulls**t, it should be me and I'd demand, in this case, to be punished for "treason" as well. Because I'm just sick of this crap.

Come down, people.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Jesus F**king Christ...

You know what? I feel really bad right now. First, I made a little joke and in next second, I hear my friend calling my other friends "traitors", I hear about taking away right to vote. And for what? For something that had no practical meaning at all? For what, that did not threaten Atlasia even for a second?

Now, mark my words, if anyone is going to be punished because of this bulls**t, it should be me and I'd demand, in this case, to be punished for "treason" as well. Because I'm just sick of this crap.

Come down, people.

As far as I'm concerned, this should end up like the Civil War, with a huge fight along the border, some mass burnings, etc. Then at the end, Atlasia wins and people have to swear a loyalty oath to get back in and be citizens.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Jesus F**king Christ...

You know what? I feel really bad right now. First, I made a little joke and in next second, I hear my friend calling my other friends "traitors", I hear about taking away right to vote. And for what? For something that had no practical meaning at all? For what, that did not threaten Atlasia even for a second?

Now, mark my words, if anyone is going to be punished because of this bulls**t, it should be me and I'd demand, in this case, to be punished for "treason" as well. Because I'm just sick of this crap.

Come down, people.

As far as I'm concerned, this should end up like the Civil War, with a huge fight along the border, some mass burnings, etc. Then at the end, Atlasia wins and people have to swear a loyalty oath to get back in and be citizens.

And then northern businessmen get free access to southern markets where they can gouge people down there and screw them over and force them into poverty for a century !

[Mechaman]

Well, after Snowguy bribed me with $500,000 and the entire series of Lost, Dexter, Weeds, Star Trek: The Next Generation, The Sopranos, South Park, Family Guy, Leverage, In Plain Sight, Burn Notice, Psych, and a bunch of other different sh*t on blu-ray hours of careful thought I decided to cancel my move to Manitoba and stay here in Atlasia.
I do stand by my stance that the issues I brought up would make an interesting discussion and free us from boredom, but right now is the wrong time and I don't want to give the impression that in my moment of irritation that I embrace treachery and secession.  I do not.
I oppose war with former Atlasian states, but at the same time I do not think it would be ethical for the money for me to condone what Snowguy is paying me is blatant treachery to the ideals and purposes of the Atlasian state.  I have come to realize that all of our states share a special bond that when broken causes great tragedy and lost profits for my stock in loli pron..  I know I won't make many friends here, but in my closing argument let me just say that I did it all for the money the integrity and character of this nation.

-Mechaman

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Cathcon, such a grand scenario would never be possible. Even if the GM were to incorporate it into the game, there is no way that enough people would take it seriously and play along. Certainly the policy wonks would be all in a tizzy and the economics only people as well. Soon you got half the game playing Civil War Redux, and the other half going business as usuall.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Cathcon, such a grand scenario would never be possible. Even if the GM were to incorporate it into the game, there is no way that enough people would take it seriously and play along. Certainly the policy wonks would be all in a tizzy and the economics only people as well. Soon you got half the game playing Civil Wa

Awww man! I was hoping to be part of one of the most epic events in all Atlasian history! It would be sweet to see ripple effects (I myself had planned on publishing "Cathcon's War Journal") and the like, plus Reconstruction. I guess not.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Cathcon, such a grand scenario would never be possible. Even if the GM were to incorporate it into the game, there is no way that enough people would take it seriously and play along. Certainly the policy wonks would be all in a tizzy and the economics only people as well. Soon you got half the game playing Civil War Redux, and the other half going business as usuall.

Awww man! I was hoping to be part of one of the most epic events in all Atlasian history! It would be sweet to see ripple effects (I myself had planned on publishing "Cathcon's War Journal") and the like, plus Reconstruction. I guess not.

Watch your quote boxes, man!!!

It would be fun, I'll admit, but it just isn't practical.

Now a foreign war, might be. Fewer domestic disturbances, no treason trials and execution squad (just because the American Civil ended without these, doesn't mean Atlasia's would you know. ), and thus probably more cooperation as a result.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Cathcon, such a grand scenario would never be possible. Even if the GM were to incorporate it into the game, there is no way that enough people would take it seriously and play along. Certainly the policy wonks would be all in a tizzy and the economics only people as well. Soon you got half the game playing Civil War Redux, and the other half going business as usuall.

Awww man! I was hoping to be part of one of the most epic events in all Atlasian history! It would be sweet to see ripple effects (I myself had planned on publishing "Cathcon's War Journal") and the like, plus Reconstruction. I guess not.

Watch your quote boxes, man!!!

It would be fun, I'll admit, but it just isn't practical.

Now a foreign war, might be. Fewer domestic disturbances, no treason trials and execution squad (just because the American Civil ended without these, doesn't mean Atlasia's would you know. ), and thus probably more cooperation as a result.

Now I'm debating the predicament. I already offered my services to Yelnoc, yet this could be a suitable  substitute. (granted, I don't get the pleasure of committing treason and fighting for Johnny Reb)

[Yelnoc]

Cathcon, such a grand scenario would never be possible. Even if the GM were to incorporate it into the game, there is no way that enough people would take it seriously and play along. Certainly the policy wonks would be all in a tizzy and the economics only people as well. Soon you got half the game playing Civil War Redux, and the other half going business as usuall.

Awww man! I was hoping to be part of one of the most epic events in all Atlasian history! It would be sweet to see ripple effects (I myself had planned on publishing "Cathcon's War Journal") and the like, plus Reconstruction. I guess not.

Watch your quote boxes, man!!!

It would be fun, I'll admit, but it just isn't practical.

Now a foreign war, might be. Fewer domestic disturbances, no treason trials and execution squad (just because the American Civil ended without these, doesn't mean Atlasia's would you know. ), and thus probably more cooperation as a result.

Now I'm debating the predicament. I already offered my services to Yelnoc, yet this could be a suitable  substitute. (granted, I don't get the pleasure of committing treason and fighting for Johnny Reb)

Follow your heart.

Man.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Cathcon, such a grand scenario would never be possible. Even if the GM were to incorporate it into the game, there is no way that enough people would take it seriously and play along. Certainly the policy wonks would be all in a tizzy and the economics only people as well. Soon you got half the game playing Civil War Redux, and the other half going business as usuall.

Awww man! I was hoping to be part of one of the most epic events in all Atlasian history! It would be sweet to see ripple effects (I myself had planned on publishing "Cathcon's War Journal") and the like, plus Reconstruction. I guess not.

Watch your quote boxes, man!!!

It would be fun, I'll admit, but it just isn't practical.

Now a foreign war, might be. Fewer domestic disturbances, no treason trials and execution squad (just because the American Civil ended without these, doesn't mean Atlasia's would you know. ), and thus probably more cooperation as a result.

Now I'm debating the predicament. I already offered my services to Yelnoc, yet this could be a suitable  substitute. (granted, I don't get the pleasure of committing treason and fighting for Johnny Reb)

Follow your heart.

Man.

It really all depends on whether I want a future in Atlasia, and as of now, I consider myself only in temporary retirement. We shall see.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Nevermind, I won't have to quit the game.  Thanks Bgwah for digging this up:


Section 3: Acts of Treason
The following acts are hereby declared Acts of Treason:
1. Rebellion, defined as the use of military forces to overthrow the Federal or any Regional government of Atlasia.
2. Aiding of a rebellion, defined as the fully knowing and intentional direction of funds, military aid, or strategic advice to a person or group seeking to engage in rebellion.
3. Terrorism, defined as the unlawful or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating civilians and/or the federal and/or regional governments of Atlasia.
4. Destruction of a Voting Booth, defined as deleting the thread in which a voting booth, or absentee voting booth, for an active election is contained.
Section 4: Punishment of Acts of Treason
Sentencing of Acts of Treason shall be by the presiding Justice; He may use any combination of the following as punishment, depending upon the severity of the offense:
1. Up to a lifetime ban from voting in any Atlasian elections.
2. Up to a lifetime ban from holding any office under the Republic of Atlasia.

and you can see from this definition that a secession, if unaccompanied by military action, is not treasonous.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Nevermind, I won't have to quit the game.  Thanks Bgwah for digging this up:


Section 3: Acts of Treason
The following acts are hereby declared Acts of Treason:
1. Rebellion, defined as the use of military forces to overthrow the Federal or any Regional government of Atlasia.
2. Aiding of a rebellion, defined as the fully knowing and intentional direction of funds, military aid, or strategic advice to a person or group seeking to engage in rebellion.
3. Terrorism, defined as the unlawful or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating civilians and/or the federal and/or regional governments of Atlasia.
4. Destruction of a Voting Booth, defined as deleting the thread in which a voting booth, or absentee voting booth, for an active election is contained.
Section 4: Punishment of Acts of Treason
Sentencing of Acts of Treason shall be by the presiding Justice; He may use any combination of the following as punishment, depending upon the severity of the offense:
1. Up to a lifetime ban from voting in any Atlasian elections.
2. Up to a lifetime ban from holding any office under the Republic of Atlasia.

and you can see from this definition that a secession, if unaccompanied by military action, is not treasonous.

It's been made quite clear that they are "ready to fight" and have been bolstering the Georgia national guard and are calling for new militia members and posting them at their borders.

It is quite clear that they have no right to secede from the union as they are a part of Atlasia.  In addition, they have, by default, taken federally owned lands within the state of Georgia along with their secession and are prepared to use their militia to defend that secession.  To me that clearly falls into the confines of clause 1.