Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
August 01, 2015, 03:04:18 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Be sure to enable your "Ultimate Profile" for even more goodies on your profile page!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  Political Debate (Moderator: Beet)
| | |-+  Do public schools teach subversive literature to subvert its message?
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: Do public schools teach subversive literature to subvert its message?  (Read 515 times)
dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23183
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.84, S: -4.52

View Profile
« on: September 28, 2011, 06:11:21 am »
Ignore

On another message board I lurk at this topic came up, I'll just quote the good part.
Quote
To believe the Marxist literary theorists, the reason the establishment teaches books by Salinger (and Orwell, and Lee, and other anti-establishment authors) is to co-opt them and undermine their subversive content. I doubt teachers think of it that way, but getting handed a book in school definitely affects the way students read it. And the way teachers teach it also probably undermines the effectiveness of the book.
Any truth to it?  Well, obviously the last coupe of lines are true(ish), but they could be true whether the theory is fact or not.  I don't think it's true because it's almost too clever.  People that want to censor things don't tend to be that clever.
Logged

I believe the simple truth is that they became somewhat alarmed when they realized that I really meant to write what I believed. There is a peculiar parallel between some of our great Northern "liberals" and some of our outstanding Southern liberals.

Some of the people in both classes share the deep-seated convictions that only their convictions can possibly be the right ones. They both inevitably say the same thing: "We know the Negro and what is best for him."
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58871
United Kingdom


View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2011, 06:45:59 am »
Ignore

Which Marxist literary theorists?
Logged

"Whatsoever Aristotle may have thought of this, I do not care"

William of Occam
tweed
Miamiu1027
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 36770
United States


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2011, 08:12:20 am »
Ignore

Any truth to it?  Well, obviously the last coupe of lines are true(ish), but they could be true whether the theory is fact or not.  I don't think it's true because it's almost too clever.  People that want to censor things don't tend to be that clever.

it doesn't have to be sketchy people in a board room plotting this out (though it may well be); capitalism has instincts of its own that lead to this sort of thing.
Logged

I wanna contribute to the chaos
I don't wanna watch and then complain,
'cause I am through finding blame
that is the decision that I have made
dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23183
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.84, S: -4.52

View Profile
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2011, 09:00:29 am »
Ignore

Are you seriously suggesting capitalism can "lead to this sort of thing"?  I guess it depends on what "this sort of thing" means, but if it means "some subversive books being less subversive because they are taught in public schools" then you might be nuts.  Not as nuts as saying capitalism is to blame for us having so few choices of entertainment, that's a whole 'nother category of crazy.
Logged

I believe the simple truth is that they became somewhat alarmed when they realized that I really meant to write what I believed. There is a peculiar parallel between some of our great Northern "liberals" and some of our outstanding Southern liberals.

Some of the people in both classes share the deep-seated convictions that only their convictions can possibly be the right ones. They both inevitably say the same thing: "We know the Negro and what is best for him."
tweed
Miamiu1027
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 36770
United States


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2011, 10:13:57 am »
Ignore

I don't know that there's a significant difference between those two.  the point would be that people like Orwell (I'll exempt the other two because I don't think they can be called subversive at this stage - as regards Lee, ruling ideology has long claimed the Civil Rights movement as its own victory.  note the massive corporate sponsorship of the DC MLK memorial last month, as just one example out of the countless)... people like Orwell are not going to be taught in a way that in any way exaggerates their incendiary quality, at least on a mass level such as grade school.  this isn't claiming an absolute so much as a regurgitation of the ancient and well-proven theory that attitudes and practices are, on balance, going to mirror existing power relationships.  this does not imply nor require a consciousness of this on the part of people who propagate the stuff at its lowest level, such as the classroom.
Logged

I wanna contribute to the chaos
I don't wanna watch and then complain,
'cause I am through finding blame
that is the decision that I have made
Tetro Kornbluth
Gully Foyle
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12200
Ireland, Republic of


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2011, 10:47:54 am »
Ignore

Ive literally only logged on to this forum just now solely to laugh at the idea of Lee being considered a subversive author. (Insert much laughter here).
Logged



Quote
Keith R Laws ‏@Keith_Laws  Feb 4
As I have noted before 'paradigm shift' is an anagram of 'grasp dim faith'
minionofmidas - supplemental forum account
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58773
India


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2011, 11:37:14 am »
Ignore

I seem to remember the edition of Lord of the Flies that I had to read for school including a small foreword (or a backcover note? Whatever) by William Golding himself making this exact point about the book now being taught in school.
Logged

If I'm shown as having been active here recently it's either because I've been using the gallery, because I've been using the search engine looking up something from way back, or because I've been reading the most excellent UK by-elections thread again.
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines