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| | | |-+  Did Obama win Christians in Utah?
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Question: Did Obama win Christians in Utah?
Yes   -10 (22.2%)
No   -35 (77.8%)
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Total Voters: 45

Author Topic: Did Obama win Christians in Utah?  (Read 4535 times)
A.G. Snowstalker
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« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2011, 02:30:43 pm »
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Mormons are Christians.
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« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2011, 08:24:42 pm »
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Mormons are Christians, end of story.

But back to the original question in this thread, before it got hijacked.

Did Obama win Christians in Utah?

The answer is since Obama did not win the Mormon vote in Utah, then no, he did not win the Christian vote in Utah. 
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« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2011, 08:31:41 pm »
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Just because Mormons are weird and strange doesn't mean they're not Christians.

If people were excluded based on being " a strange lunacy cult", then you could exclude a lot of Christians worldwide.
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« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2011, 10:41:11 pm »
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I thought this level of sectarianism was for Levantine Arabs :p
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« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2011, 03:41:03 am »
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Certainly not.  Unless you consider Catholics Christian, of course.

Grin
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« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2011, 03:47:54 am »
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While there are slight differences about which sentences exactly belong in the Bible and in which order, no (other) Christian Church has anything remotely like the Book of Mormon, and its existence is, from a purely theological point of view, a massive, huge, disqualifying heresy. You might almost as well consider Muslims to be Jews.

Culturally, of course, Mormons (more so than the Native American Church, which also references Jesus Christ. As does Islam, of course.) are part of the great American Protestant Christian Tradition. A somewhat divergent part, but clearly a part.

So bottomline. They're Christians, but not. Tongue

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« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2011, 01:10:15 am »
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The Book of Mormon also contradicts the Bible, for example take the bit about Jesus and Satan being brothers. This contradicts a lot about Jesus being the only Son of God, for example see this oft-quoted verse:

Quote from: John 3:16
For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

Then the bit about how God was once a man on another planet and therefore did not create the entire universe...

For a more borderline case you might want to ask if Unity is Christian, I'd say they are but I'm sure jmfcst wouldn't.
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« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2011, 05:13:31 am »
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The Book of Mormon also contradicts the Bible

Who cares?  The Bible contradicts itself.
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« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2011, 10:18:10 am »
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Just because Mormons are weird and strange doesn't mean they're not Christians.

If people were excluded based on being " a strange lunacy cult", then you could exclude a lot of Christians worldwide.

Doctrinally, Mormons are about as related to Christianity as, say, Muslims or Jews (or, actually, Mormons to Christianity are what Christians are to Judaism). Culturally, and from the point of view of self-identification, of course, they are Christians.  But in terms of what they believe in, the gap with Christianity is striking.
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« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2011, 10:24:57 am »
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What about Greek and Russian Orthodox "Christians" and Unitarians (the John Adams kind)?

Greek, Russian and other Eastern Orthodox are about as Christian as Catholics. In fact, they are not even considered heretics by the Catholic church (though they, in fact, believe Catholics to be heretical). The most important doctrinal difference between the to is on the nature of the Holy Ghost (the Orthodox believe it to come from the Father, while the Catholics add "and Son"). On this the Eastern Orthodox view, in fact, has better pedigree: that's the original Nicean Creed, which Catholics have modified. Pretty much on all other matters that don't have to do w/ the role of the Bishop of Rome they are indistinguishable.

In any case, theological and historical differences betwenn Eastern (or, even, Oriental) Orthodox and most Protestant churches might be huge, but they pale in comparison between the differences between even most  evangelical churches and the Mormons. On the bulk of what they believe in Orthodox, Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Baptists, etc., etc. are fairly close - while Mormons are almost as distinct from them all as are the Muslims.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 10:26:32 am by ag »Logged

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« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2011, 11:49:52 am »
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In any case, theological and historical differences betwenn Eastern (or, even, Oriental) Orthodox and most Protestant churches might be huge, but they pale in comparison between the differences between even most  evangelical churches and the Mormons. On the bulk of what they believe in Orthodox, Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Baptists, etc., etc. are fairly close - while Mormons are almost as distinct from them all as are the Muslims.

This. If we're considering Mormons Christians, should we also consider Muslims Christian because they view Jesus as a Prophet, believe that he had a virgin birth, and believe in his Second Coming?

Furthermore, Mormons:
- don't believe in Apostolic Succession
- view the three personages of the trinity as fully separate personages rather than as three cosubstantial personages in one being
- Mormons believe that God the Father is only one of countless Gods, and that he used to be a man who lived on another planet

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« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2011, 11:55:24 am »
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In any case, theological and historical differences betwenn Eastern (or, even, Oriental) Orthodox and most Protestant churches might be huge, but they pale in comparison between the differences between even most  evangelical churches and the Mormons. On the bulk of what they believe in Orthodox, Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Baptists, etc., etc. are fairly close - while Mormons are almost as distinct from them all as are the Muslims.

This. If we're considering Mormons Christians, should we also consider Muslims Christian because they view Jesus as a Prophet, believe that he had a virgin birth, and believe in his Second Coming?


Muslims also believe he was never crucified. Mohammed must have spoken to some gnostics.
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« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2011, 12:00:42 pm »
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In any case, theological and historical differences betwenn Eastern (or, even, Oriental) Orthodox and most Protestant churches might be huge, but they pale in comparison between the differences between even most  evangelical churches and the Mormons. On the bulk of what they believe in Orthodox, Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Baptists, etc., etc. are fairly close - while Mormons are almost as distinct from them all as are the Muslims.

This. If we're considering Mormons Christians, should we also consider Muslims Christian because they view Jesus as a Prophet, believe that he had a virgin birth, and believe in his Second Coming?


Muslims also believe he was never crucified. Mohammed must have spoken to some gnostics.

yeah, early Christianity had a lot of very interesting offshoots.
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« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2011, 11:31:34 pm »
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If you're gonna be a Christian, be an unemotional,somewhat rational,  traditional one (ie Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, mainline Protestant). Don't be one of those "have you found Jesus?" people.

And for God's sake, don't start your own denomination in this day and age.
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« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2011, 05:03:12 pm »
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If Mormons are consider Christians, no, Obama did no win the vote of Christians in Utah. If not, nah but the true Christian crowd isn't as Republican as the Mormons-LDS are in the state.
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« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2011, 11:14:54 pm »
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Mormons are not Christians and no Obama didn't win Christians in Utah.
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« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2011, 08:22:24 pm »
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According to the OP's definition, yes.

That said, I don't believe Mormonism is Christianity, but neither do I think the religion is weird or disturbing. That said, I am a Jew descended from Russian immigrants living in Ohio, and have therefore personally encountered very few Mormons, so this really isn't much of an expert opinion.
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« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2011, 08:42:32 pm »
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Furthermore, Mormons:
- don't believe in Apostolic Succession

Neither do most Protestant churches.
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« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2011, 02:14:27 pm »
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Mormons also reject the Trinity and their churches don't have crosses on them.

This is why I think that Mormonism is not part of Christianity. Do you believe in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost? No? Then you are not a Christian. It isn't rocket science.
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« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2011, 05:54:08 pm »
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Mormons also reject the Trinity and their churches don't have crosses on them.

This is why I think that Mormonism is not part of Christianity. Do you believe in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost? No? Then you are not a Christian. It isn't rocket science.
Non-Trinitarians aren't Christians?
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« Reply #45 on: November 07, 2011, 09:21:42 pm »
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No. The acceptance of the trinity has been a fundamental component of Christianity since the promulgation of the Nicene Creed.
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A.G. Snowstalker
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« Reply #46 on: November 07, 2011, 09:46:39 pm »
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Did he win non-Mormons? Probably.

But Mormons believe in Jeebus, so they're Christian enough for my criteria.
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« Reply #47 on: November 07, 2011, 10:18:28 pm »
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Edit: Nevermind. Just lock this troll thread.
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« Reply #48 on: November 08, 2011, 09:22:30 am »
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Mormons also reject the Trinity and their churches don't have crosses on them.

This is why I think that Mormonism is not part of Christianity. Do you believe in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost? No? Then you are not a Christian. It isn't rocket science.
Non-Trinitarians aren't Christians?
Well, yeah.  That's the Nicene Creed. I've been to a few Unitarian churches and they don't consider themselves Christian.
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« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2013, 07:37:50 pm »
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I don't consider Mormons to be christian so yes I think Obama did win Christians in Utah b/c there are probably some Hispanic Catholics in Utah...
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