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Author Topic: Let's talk about MD90/LBJ Revivalist  (Read 4162 times)
RIP Mechaman
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« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2011, 12:27:22 am »
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So, does anyone else want to ban the concern troll?
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« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2011, 12:59:39 am »
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this thread is terrific.
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2011, 04:22:12 am »
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All the Hindus in India should just go follow Jesus Christ anyway.

Hindus believe that everyone believes in the same god.

But they're polytheists and don't believe in Jesus.

And then it's also kind of funny how they act toward Muslims too (thinking of Slumdog Millionaire.)
Well they have a subcontinent-sized chip on their shoulder to carry. You too would become insane under that weight. Can't blame'em, in a way.

Many lower class Tamil Hindus do worship Jesus Christ and Mary, by the way. Just as lesser deities to pay occasional respect to rather than The Saviour. Then again, Tamil Christians also worship at some of the large Tamil Hindu pilgrimage centres and perform outwardly Hindu rites there. It's weird.
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« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2011, 04:32:37 am »
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All the Hindus in India should just go follow Jesus Christ anyway.

Hindus believe that everyone believes in the same god.

But they're polytheists and don't believe in Jesus.

And then it's also kind of funny how they act toward Muslims too (thinking of Slumdog Millionaire.)

The treatment of Muslims has to do with history more than religion. And thanks for bringing up slumdog millionaire. You just made this thread even more awesome.

Also one can believe those who worship Jesus are worshiping the same god as them when they worship some other diety. All dieties are part of the same or something like that. And cross religious worship, even by Hindus at the tombs of Sufi saints isn't something unheard of.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 04:42:41 am by sbane »Logged
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« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2011, 04:41:34 am »
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What fascinates me more is why Bengal became so Muslim. Of course Bengal had Muslim rulers, but so did the rest of North India. Why didn't Bihar or Uttar Pradesh become so Muslim? Why was East Bengal always more Muslim than the west? And of course Islam also came through the way of trade to south India. Yet it didn't spread much beyond Kerala. Same with Christianity in Kerala, though later the Portuguese helped spread it up the west coast. Kerala has been a multicultural place for thousands of years. Pretty cool.

The story is that Shah Jalal came to Sylhet because it was there that the soil was like that of his home in Yemen.

That's extremely amusing. Sylhet and Yemen couldn't be more different.

It still doesn't explain why the people converted in such high rates though. Was it because they were already majority Buddhists and were more willing to convert? (and again why would they be so Buddhist while the rest of India was Hindu?)
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2011, 05:07:24 am »
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And cross religious worship, even by Hindus at the tombs of Sufi saints isn't something unheard of.
...but declining. Used to be very very common in North India in the old days, though I guess Brahmans never participated?

Basically, "Hinduism" is a catch-all phrase for all sort of religious traditions and syncretist practices coming from these different religious traditions. It is not surprising in the least that it should be wide open to traditions from Islam or Christianity or Buddhism or Whatnot.

And of course traditional village Muslim practice was also more or less syncretist. I blame the English-modernity-inspired Reform movements of the late 19th century - Swami Vivekananda, Tablighi Jamaat, etc. Tongue

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« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2011, 05:35:45 am »
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Haha of course Brahmins didn't participate. Don't be silly. Tongue

I get your point how modernity has forced the religions to be more apart and become more "Hindu" or "Muslim" or "Christian". But at the same time reform movements like the Bengal renaissance, Vivekananda's movement and even todays televangelists have made the traditional "Hinduism" more accessible to the people. The exclusivity doesn't exist today, or is going away fast, and that is a good thing.

Syncretist practices among Dalit Buddhists still exist today though. Apparently they still worship the Hindu deities in addition to the Buddha, especially in the villages.
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2011, 05:52:04 am »
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Haha of course Brahmins didn't participate. Don't be silly. Tongue

I get your point how modernity has forced the religions to be more apart and become more "Hindu" or "Muslim" or "Christian". But at the same time reform movements like the Bengal renaissance, Vivekananda's movement and even todays televangelists have made the traditional "Hinduism" more accessible to the people. The exclusivity doesn't exist today, or is going away fast, and that is a good thing.

Syncretist practices among Dalit Buddhists still exist today though. Apparently they still worship the Hindu deities in addition to the Buddha, especially in the villages.
Oh, quite, quite. ("Presume" instead of "guess" might have been the better word.)
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« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2011, 02:23:24 pm »
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Why'd everyone hate Rochambeau? Why do people think that BJ Revivialist is worthy of a ban? "He gets on my nerves and that's why we should ban him!"
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RIP Mechaman
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« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2011, 02:34:35 pm »
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Seriously, look at all the threads he made with the same basic subject manner:

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=142019.0
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=141962.0
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=142018.msg3049887#msg3049887
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=140603.msg3016784#msg3016784
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=137345.msg2939390#msg2939390
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=135449.msg2895417#msg2895417
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=135448.msg2895407#msg2895407
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=135070.msg2884936#msg2884936
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=133686.0

Or posts, for that manner:
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=138923.msg2975960#msg2975960
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=139770.msg2997759#msg2997759
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=134149.msg2863915#msg2863915

Conclusion:

Stop talking about Hinduism and Buddhism and ban MD90
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« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2011, 03:05:26 pm »
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Stop talking about Hinduism and Buddhism and ban MD90

No for both.
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Harold Macmillan
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« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2011, 09:05:31 pm »
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What fascinates me more is why Bengal became so Muslim. Of course Bengal had Muslim rulers, but so did the rest of North India. Why didn't Bihar or Uttar Pradesh become so Muslim? Why was East Bengal always more Muslim than the west? And of course Islam also came through the way of trade to south India. Yet it didn't spread much beyond Kerala. Same with Christianity in Kerala, though later the Portuguese helped spread it up the west coast. Kerala has been a multicultural place for thousands of years. Pretty cool.

The story is that Shah Jalal came to Sylhet because it was there that the soil was like that of his home in Yemen.

That's extremely amusing. Sylhet and Yemen couldn't be more different.

It still doesn't explain why the people converted in such high rates though. Was it because they were already majority Buddhists and were more willing to convert? (and again why would they be so Buddhist while the rest of India was Hindu?)

The Pala Empire was both Bengali and Buddhist, which presumably is the reason for that.
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King
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« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2011, 10:27:42 pm »
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Some of his threads contradict previous threads, and I don't mean previous threads as in from months ago, but literally his next thread advocates the opposite position of his previous thread.

9/9/2011:    
Why is Obama running for re-election?

9/18/2011: Why are people saying Obama has fallen?

He's arguing with himself and it's absolutely maddening.
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2011, 12:33:34 pm »
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Some of his threads contradict previous threads, and I don't mean previous threads as in from months ago, but literally his next thread advocates the opposite position of his previous thread.

9/9/2011:    
Why is Obama running for re-election?

9/18/2011: Why are people saying Obama has fallen?

He's arguing with himself and it's absolutely maddening.
So you're saying he's copying you?
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« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2011, 03:16:21 pm »
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LBJ Revivalist + moderator status + economic knowledge = Beet
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Harold Macmillan
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« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2011, 06:49:36 pm »
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What fascinates me more is why Bengal became so Muslim. Of course Bengal had Muslim rulers, but so did the rest of North India. Why didn't Bihar or Uttar Pradesh become so Muslim? Why was East Bengal always more Muslim than the west? And of course Islam also came through the way of trade to south India. Yet it didn't spread much beyond Kerala. Same with Christianity in Kerala, though later the Portuguese helped spread it up the west coast. Kerala has been a multicultural place for thousands of years. Pretty cool.

The story is that Shah Jalal came to Sylhet because it was there that the soil was like that of his home in Yemen.

That's extremely amusing. Sylhet and Yemen couldn't be more different.

It still doesn't explain why the people converted in such high rates though. Was it because they were already majority Buddhists and were more willing to convert? (and again why would they be so Buddhist while the rest of India was Hindu?)

The Pala Empire was both Bengali and Buddhist, which presumably is the reason for that.
Buddhism spread from the Bengal area eastward, correct?
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Sbane
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« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2011, 09:43:33 pm »
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What fascinates me more is why Bengal became so Muslim. Of course Bengal had Muslim rulers, but so did the rest of North India. Why didn't Bihar or Uttar Pradesh become so Muslim? Why was East Bengal always more Muslim than the west? And of course Islam also came through the way of trade to south India. Yet it didn't spread much beyond Kerala. Same with Christianity in Kerala, though later the Portuguese helped spread it up the west coast. Kerala has been a multicultural place for thousands of years. Pretty cool.

The story is that Shah Jalal came to Sylhet because it was there that the soil was like that of his home in Yemen.

That's extremely amusing. Sylhet and Yemen couldn't be more different.

It still doesn't explain why the people converted in such high rates though. Was it because they were already majority Buddhists and were more willing to convert? (and again why would they be so Buddhist while the rest of India was Hindu?)

The Pala Empire was both Bengali and Buddhist, which presumably is the reason for that.
Buddhism spread from the Bengal area eastward, correct?

Actually from Bihar/Nepal border. Ashoka (based in Bihar) was probably the greatest king with a Buddhist affiliation and ruled almost all of contemporary India, and was probably the first person to pass secular laws in the entire world. Could be wrong about that, but go ahead and prove it.

The Palas came much later, just a little before Islam's introduction in Bengal which could be a reason why East Bengal became so Muslim (easier to convert people of a religion that was in reality atheistic?)

I also think the economic character of Bengal had a role to play. A good majority of Bengalis farmed rice and fished. Being a fisherman relegated you to a very low status, basically outcaste. I think this is why Buddhism was so popular in Bengal, and moderate Islam following it. This is in contrast to a place like Bihar or Uttar Pradesh where the lower middle caste (the OBC's of today) were cow herders (but the cows were not used for meat) and thus were included in the caste system and were respected by upper caste people.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 09:46:40 pm by sbane »Logged
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« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2011, 12:01:52 am »
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Ban him.
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2011, 09:36:06 am »
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Ban him.
Ban who? Ashoka?
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RIP Mechaman
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« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2011, 10:10:31 am »
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MD90.


Why are we not talking about him?
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« Reply #45 on: October 12, 2011, 10:25:40 am »
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I don't think we should ban Ashoka, even after factoring in the atrocities he committed against the people of Kalinga.
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« Reply #46 on: October 12, 2011, 12:56:26 pm »
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Because we don't care.

Now shut up. I'm watching discussion about Hinduism.
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Harold Macmillan
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« Reply #47 on: October 12, 2011, 03:11:40 pm »
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Why would we? Is he a question or answer about this site?
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Хahar
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« Reply #48 on: October 12, 2011, 04:50:44 pm »
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What fascinates me more is why Bengal became so Muslim. Of course Bengal had Muslim rulers, but so did the rest of North India. Why didn't Bihar or Uttar Pradesh become so Muslim? Why was East Bengal always more Muslim than the west? And of course Islam also came through the way of trade to south India. Yet it didn't spread much beyond Kerala. Same with Christianity in Kerala, though later the Portuguese helped spread it up the west coast. Kerala has been a multicultural place for thousands of years. Pretty cool.

The story is that Shah Jalal came to Sylhet because it was there that the soil was like that of his home in Yemen.

That's extremely amusing. Sylhet and Yemen couldn't be more different.

It still doesn't explain why the people converted in such high rates though. Was it because they were already majority Buddhists and were more willing to convert? (and again why would they be so Buddhist while the rest of India was Hindu?)

The Pala Empire was both Bengali and Buddhist, which presumably is the reason for that.
Buddhism spread from the Bengal area eastward, correct?

Actually from Bihar/Nepal border. Ashoka (based in Bihar) was probably the greatest king with a Buddhist affiliation and ruled almost all of contemporary India, and was probably the first person to pass secular laws in the entire world. Could be wrong about that, but go ahead and prove it.

The Palas came much later, just a little before Islam's introduction in Bengal which could be a reason why East Bengal became so Muslim (easier to convert people of a religion that was in reality atheistic?)

I also think the economic character of Bengal had a role to play. A good majority of Bengalis farmed rice and fished. Being a fisherman relegated you to a very low status, basically outcaste. I think this is why Buddhism was so popular in Bengal, and moderate Islam following it. This is in contrast to a place like Bihar or Uttar Pradesh where the lower middle caste (the OBC's of today) were cow herders (but the cows were not used for meat) and thus were included in the caste system and were respected by upper caste people.

I may be wrong about this, but as I recall the caste system came to Bengal fairly late (near the end of the first millenium). It may not have had time to really take hold in the east before Buddhism and then Islam supplanted it.
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« Reply #49 on: October 12, 2011, 05:02:03 pm »
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It's kind of a shame that Buddhism didn't stick in the land of its birth.  (Since you guys were talking about Ashoka)
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