Closet Republicans?

[bgwah]

Bush got 15% in San Francisco.

Are these people openly Republican, or do they keep it to themselves?

[Richard]

Bush got 15% in San Francisco.

Are these people openly Republican, or do they keep it to themselves?

They probably keep it to themselves.  It is amazing how violent peace-loving Democrats can get when you vote against them.

[Erc]

I'm in a very liberal part of a very liberal county in a very liberal state.  (Berkshire Co, MA).  You really don't have much of a choice to keep in the closet (or say you're a Libertarian or something).

[jacob_101]

My precinct voted 12% for Bush, but I would never hide from it.  The last thing Republicans should do is hide that they are Republican.

[JNB]

   Bleieve it or not, untill the mid 80s, SF actually had whole neighborhoods that one could call conservative and on occasion voted GOP for president. Carter only had 52% of the vote in SF both times he ran. But what took place in SF, and in fact has taken place in the entire Bay Area is what one could term "right flight". Simpily put, those with conservative views can not longer tolerate living in the Bay Area, and the cost of living is prohibitive for young familes there.

[Sibboleth]

and the cost of living is prohibitive for young familes there.

Very true. Have a look at THIS

[JNB]

and the cost of living is prohibitive for young familes there.

Very true. Have a look at THIS

   I understand London has a similar problem. The Bay Area is lucky that there are large numbers of skilled workers who bought homes there before real estate ran up in the mid 80s, and also its lucky(if one would call it that) that there are large numbers of illegal immigrants willing to live in conditions that not even Americans llived in during the 30s, such as 10+ per 2 bd home/apt that keep the price of basic labor low. But none the less, the Bay Area nor Orange County can sustain this.

[Sibboleth]

I understand London has a similar problem.

True... House prices all over the U.K are at insane rates. But it's very bad in London (for the price of a bedsit flat in Central London, you can get a nice Semi where I live. Daft)

The Bay Area is lucky that there are large numbers of skilled workers who bought homes there before real estate ran up in the mid 80s, and also its lucky(if one would call it that) that there are large numbers of illegal immigrants willing to live in conditions that not even Americans llived in during the 30s, such as 10+ per 2 bd home/apt that keep the price of basic labor low. But none the less, the Bay Area nor Orange County can sustain this.

A bit like Switzerland really... the Swiss Government(s) lure poor immigrants from wherever is especially poor at the time to do all the dirty jobs, play them poor wages (which given how much things cost in Switzerland is a truely evil thing to do) give them significantly less rights than the rest of the population, make them live in poor housing, never grant them citizenship if they can avoid it... and if there's a recession they deport most of them. Then lure them back later. Often the same people. And so the cycle starts over.

[Nym90]

What about the 7% of voters in Madison County, ID that voted for Kerry? Are they closet Democrats, or open about it?

[phk]

Kerry's votes in Madison, Idaho were probably sympathy votes.

[JNB]

 A sort of hi-jacking of a thread, but a history lesson. Untill the late 80s, the Bay Area wasnt that much of a Democratic stronghold. With the exception of the 64 election, from 60 till 84, it was very slightly Democratic leaning swing territory. That change started to accelerate in 88 but it wast fully complete untill 96.

   How the Bay Area stacked up untill the early 90s was that SF was its liberal core, along with Oakland and Berkely, but as I stated previously, untill the mid 80s, SF did have some neighborhoods that voted GOP on the presidential level. Marin county was Democratic leaning swing territory, and Napa was Republican leaning swing territory. Alameda county as a whole was Democratic, but cities such as Fremont were swing territory, while the tri valley area(Livermore, Danville) were Republican leaning. Contra Costa County was as a whole swing territory, but with very heavily black Richmond taken away, it was actually GOP leaning.

  Lastly, San Mateo county was considred Democratic leaning swing territory, though a bit less upscale than Marin, and Santa Clara County was as a whole swing territory, with the North and East ends Democratic, and the West and South end Republican.

  Hard to believe, but there is not any place in the Bay Area than can be called solidly and even GOP leaning anymore. Walnut Creek, in Contra Costa County was called Orange County North, now goes for Democrats by a 20 point margin on a regular baisis. The best the Republicans can do is break even in the Livermore-Danville corridor(Tri Valley area).

[opebo]

I think this big change in areas like San Fransisco and Northern California in general is due to the phenomenon of wealthy or very well paid liberal people seeking a type of lifestyle that is completely atypical in the US.  Basically these people - who generally made a lot of money in the 1990s, and who are very socially liberal while not all that economically liberal - have flooded in to the few tolerable zones while the more right leaning voters have flooded out. 

The vast bulk of the US is utterly homogenous, consisting of highways, suburbs, malls, fast food restaurants, etc.  Anyone with any money or taste would want to escape this horror, and they do so in what few places have not succumbed to the trend.  I have never been to San Fransisco, but I assume it is one.  Anyone know of others?

[bgwah]

What about the 7% of voters in Madison County, ID that voted for Kerry? Are they closet Democrats, or open about it?

I'm sure the Mormons already know which people they still need to convert.

[DanielX]

The vast bulk of the US is utterly homogenous, consisting of highways, suburbs, malls, fast food restaurants, etc. 

And this is a bad thing because....?

Seriously, I don't see a suburban lifestyle as all that bad.  It depends on the suburb, and where. The worst things are lack of public transit and heavy traffic.

Any decent suburb will have better-than-fast-food restaurants (mostly chains - Olive Garden, Bennigans, Don Pablo's, Pizzeria Uno, etc - stuff that you might not like but suits me fine), both outlet and luxury malls, and most importantly (for me) a Barnes & Noble or similar large bookstore. I also like to have some space - large rooms ( If/ when i become a decently financed adult with a wife and kids, i would like to get one of those much-despised 'McMansions' - the small lot means less upkeep, and lots of interior room), unobtrusive neighbors, some greenery (I don't mean a park or a few trees along the sidewalk, but just grass and shrubs, even a smallish lawn),etc. A balance between rural and urban.

I admit that pure 'red-state' suburb might not be my cup of tea -  but inner cities (even ones with large middle-class population) are often dirty, crowded, and have traffic problems as bad or worse than suburbs (I've been to New York several times, and while it's a nice place to visit, I'd probably would not live there - 'Middle Class' usually means an apartment. DC is even worse, the city itself lacks a middle class altogether).

BTW, I'm in Montgomery County, MD. Solid Democrat, although a few of the northern areas (like Damascus) probably lean Republican. 

[opebo]

The vast bulk of the US is utterly homogenous, consisting of highways, suburbs, malls, fast food restaurants, etc. 

And this is a bad thing because....?

Seriously, I don't see a suburban lifestyle as all that bad.  It depends on the suburb, and where. The worst things are lack of public transit and heavy traffic.

Any decent suburb will have better-than-fast-food restaurants (mostly chains - Olive Garden, Bennigans, Don Pablo's, Pizzeria Uno, etc - stuff that you might not like but suits me fine), both outlet and luxury malls, and most importantly (for me) a Barnes & Noble or similar large bookstore. I also like to have some space - large rooms ( If/ when i become a decently financed adult with a wife and kids, i would like to get one of those much-despised 'McMansions' - the small lot means less upkeep, and lots of interior room), unobtrusive neighbors, some greenery (I don't mean a park or a few trees along the sidewalk, but just grass and shrubs, even a smallish lawn),etc. A balance between rural and urban.

I admit that pure 'red-state' suburb might not be my cup of tea -  but inner cities (even ones with large middle-class population) are often dirty, crowded, and have traffic problems as bad or worse than suburbs (I've been to New York several times, and while it's a nice place to visit, I'd probably would not live there - 'Middle Class' usually means an apartment. DC is even worse, the city itself lacks a middle class altogether).

BTW, I'm in Montgomery County, MD. Solid Democrat, although a few of the northern areas (like Damascus) probably lean Republican. 

I'll admit that the interiors of those new homes can be spacious, if lacking in the craftsmanship of the older urban homes.  Of course apartment living is usually going to be more cramped than a house - though not always - there are plenty of 1900-1930's apartments back in St. Louis that are bigger than a lot of houses.

But as for chain food, I don't care how 'upscale' it is - it is inedible in my opinion.  I refuse to eat it, even for free (as in lunches with the elderly exurban parents).  I'd rather eat in the greasiest locally owned diner than those places, and of course ethnic restaurants blow them all away.

[Will F.D. People]

The vast bulk of the US is utterly homogenous, consisting of highways, suburbs, malls, fast food restaurants, etc. 

Any decent suburb will have better-than-fast-food restaurants (mostly chains - Olive Garden, Bennigans, Don Pablo's, Pizzeria Uno, etc - stuff that you might not like but suits me fine),

Come on over the river and settle here in Loudoun County, VA. There is plenty of good food here. Within walking distance of my suburban house -- not quite a full McMansion, more like McHappyMealMansion -- is the best mom-and-pop pizza place I've ever been to. We also have execellent Italian, Indian, Chinese, Japanance, Buffalo Wing, and Asian Fusion in our neighborhood. It is a short drive to a wonderful family-run Mexican restaurant in one direction, and a Peruvian roast chicken place  in another. Yes, we also have Ruby Tuesdays, Mickey D's Popyeyes, TB/KFC, but it is not all fast food & chains.

If you want really fine dining, there are some very good places down the road or in DC.

I am a former Montgomery County resident and this is much better.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

The vast bulk of the US is utterly homogenous, consisting of highways, suburbs, malls, fast food restaurants, etc. 

Any decent suburb will have better-than-fast-food restaurants (mostly chains - Olive Garden, Bennigans, Don Pablo's, Pizzeria Uno, etc - stuff that you might not like but suits me fine),

Come on over the river and settle here in Loudoun County, VA. There is plenty of good food here. Within walking distance of my suburban house -- not quite a full McMansion, more like McHappyMealMansion -- is the best mom-and-pop pizza place I've ever been to. We also have execellent Italian, Indian, Chinese, Japanance, Buffalo Wing, and Asian Fusion in our neighborhood. It is a short drive to a wonderful family-run Mexican restaurant in one direction, and a Peruvian roast chicken place  in another. Yes, we also have Ruby Tuesdays, Mickey D's Popyeyes, TB/KFC, but it is not all fast food & chains.

If you want really fine dining, there are some very good places down the road or in DC.

I am a former Montgomery County resident and this is much better.

Food in cities like SF and NY totally destroys the food in any suburb.

[phk]

Suburban food should be used as pig-feed.

[Shira]

Bush got 15% in San Francisco.

Are these people openly Republican, or do they keep it to themselves?

They probably keep it to themselves.  It is amazing how violent peace-loving Democrats can get when you vote against them.

If you voted for Bush you have a good reason to be ashamed of it.

[phk]

Word, Shira. :-)

[Vasall des Midas]

I don't mean a park or a few trees along the sidewalk, but just grass and shrubs, even a smallish lawn),etc.

I'll admit that the interiors of those new homes can be spacious, if lacking in the craftsmanship of the older urban homes.

The thing about newer American housing is, from a European perspective, that it's incredibly spacious but also incredibly shoddily built. Or vice versa, as you prefer.
And being a Frankfurt city man I don't want need grass and shrubs, certainly no lawn, but I do want a few trees along the sidewalk.
Oh, and one more thing that hasn't been said: "clean", in housing environments, is a dirty word. To me personally, that is. I've never felt well in a city that didn't look at least a teeny bit dusty.

[opebo]

I don't mean a park or a few trees along the sidewalk, but just grass and shrubs, even a smallish lawn),etc.

I'll admit that the interiors of those new homes can be spacious, if lacking in the craftsmanship of the older urban homes.

The thing about newer American housing is, from a European perspective, that it's incredibly spacious but also incredibly shoddily built. Or vice versa, as you prefer.
And being a Frankfurt city man I don't want need grass and shrubs, certainly no lawn, but I do want a few trees along the sidewalk.
Oh, and one more thing that hasn't been said: "clean", in housing environments, is a dirty word. To me personally, that is. I've never felt well in a city that didn't look at least a teeny bit dusty.

Yes I remember European buildings - very high quality.  Even the buildings here in Thailand seem a bit nicer, as they're made of concrete and 'rebar' steel, instead of wood, plywood, and drywall.  Everything in US houses seems like you could just poke a hole in it.   
I also agree that a few trees along the sidewalk is more important than a lawn or all that - who really spends all their time playing badminton or croquet.

[bushforever]

I hate when liberals treat suburban food like its cat food.  Yes, maybe Taco Bell is, but there are plenty of good restuarants in the suburbs that compete with restuarants in world-class cities.  World class suburbs like Schaumburg IL, Orange County CA, Tysons Corner VA, Oakland County MI, Fort Lauderdale FL, Arlington TX, Bloomington MN, Bellevue WA, Scottsdale AZ, and so forth are almost cities themselves and offer a great variety of entertainment, food (ethnic & chain), recreation, lodging, shopping, and more in a classy atmosphere.  The buildings may be 300 ft. instead of 1000 ft. and the lack of mass transit may exist but these "edge cities" are havens for suburbanites and tourists alike.  They are simply smaller versions of the urban downtowns.  Everything in the suburbs is not a McDonalds and Wal Mart off the highway.

[phk]

Suburban Food is Cat-Food

[danwxman]

I hate when liberals treat suburban food like its cat food.  Yes, maybe Taco Bell is, but there are plenty of good restuarants in the suburbs that compete with restuarants in world-class cities.  World class suburbs like Schaumburg IL, Orange County CA, Tysons Corner VA, Oakland County MI, Fort Lauderdale FL, Arlington TX, Bloomington MN, Bellevue WA, Scottsdale AZ, and so forth are almost cities themselves and offer a great variety of entertainment, food (ethnic & chain), recreation, lodging, shopping, and more in a classy atmosphere.  The buildings may be 300 ft. instead of 1000 ft. and the lack of mass transit may exist but these "edge cities" are havens for suburbanites and tourists alike.  They are simply smaller versions of the urban downtowns.  Everything in the suburbs is not a McDonalds and Wal Mart off the highway.

The only decent restaurants in this area are within a few blocks of each other in downtown Harrisburg in the restaurant/club district.


Otherwise it's just Applebees and Ruby Tuesdays.