What is your annual income and party affiliation?

[Wonkish1]

And it is actually quite interesting. It was told to me by my Tax Accounting professor back in college. He had a tax attorney friend that catered to some people that earned income illegally.

And how they do it is this. The tax attorney prepares the tax return without any identifying information on the document and he's careful to make sure that he wears gloves while touching the paper and envelopes. He also makes sure that no DNA(like a hair) can end up on any of the documents or envelope. Furthermore, they can't lick the envelope either. They package up the envelope with no return address and the amount of taxes owed in cash.

But not before they make a copy of the tax return and store it at the attorney's office for then on. In the case that the drug dealer gets busted and tax evasion gets added to the charges, the drug dealer has his tax attorney present their copy of the tax return to the court and the IRS matches it against records held at the IRS. When they find a match the tax evasion charges are dropped.

So do you still want to punch a wall?

That is an interesting but somewhat dubious story.  Could be true though.

What I find even more interesting is that while Republicans whole heartedly believe stuff like this they go around repeating lies about illegal immigrants not paying taxes but yet using public services.  How about a thread by a Republican explaining how a lot of illegal immigrants actually do pay taxes and never see a penny of the money they paid into social security or medicare.  Now that would be an interesting and far more relevant post.

So its your intention to imply that I'm "spreading lies" about a subject I've never even talked about on these forums?

You just want to get in it again don't you?

[© tweed]

That is an interesting but somewhat dubious story.  Could be true though.

What I find even more interesting is that while Republicans whole heartedly believe stuff like this they go around repeating lies about illegal immigrants not paying taxes but yet using public services.  How about a thread by a Republican explaining how a lot of illegal immigrants actually do pay taxes and never see a penny of the money they paid into social security or medicare.  Now that would be an interesting and far more relevant post.

this was a line that Gingrich pushed exceedingly hard in the '96 congressional debates on reform.  it polled and/or focus grouped well and it's stuck ever since.  now the difference is that the class of '10 HoR freshmen grew up hearing this sh**t so they actually believe a lot of it, rather than just cynically pedaling it.  which is better I have no idea.

[Person Man]

The fun thing about the bracket system is that it pretty much gives us a starting point from which to frame the tax/class debate.

The bottom pretty much is poverty, the second bracket pretty much is the working poor, the third is the Middle Class, the Fourth is the Upper Middle Class, the fifth is pretty much the modestly wealthy and the top bracket are the very wealthy.

[Napoleon]

Who are the three people with +$379k?

Liars I presume.

[minionofmidas]

My annual income is too small and I don't have an annual party affiliation.

[Joe Biden 2020]

The fun thing about the bracket system is that it pretty much gives us a starting point from which to frame the tax/class debate.

The bottom pretty much is poverty, the second bracket pretty much is the working poor, the third is the Middle Class, the Fourth is the Upper Middle Class, the fifth is pretty much the modestly wealthy and the top bracket are the very wealthy.

Its funny, I'm near the upper end of that 2nd bracket, the bracket your post defines as "working poor", but I don't consider myself poor at all.  I consider myself more lower middle class than anything.  I'm not wealthy by any means, but at $27,000 a year, a bachelor, living in one of the cheapest states in the  union, Oklahoma, I feel pretty doggone good about where I'm at.  In 2012, I should be making $31,000 a year by going permanent at my job in either November or December this year.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm in the second bracket, though sitting on the cusp of the third.

The second bracket most certainly is "working poor" if you have a family to support and all that, but it's perfectly sustainable for people like me.

[Joe Biden 2020]

I'm in the second bracket, though sitting on the cusp of the third.

The second bracket most certainly is "working poor" if you have a family to support and all that, but it's perfectly sustainable for people like me.

I totally agree with that last sentence.  $27,000 is perfectly fine for a bachelor, but trying to support a family, even just a marraige, and it sucks.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

It's just so strange and relates to the other thread around what's 'rich' and comments about costs of living.

Put it this way -here, the person who manages a KFC is on about $55,000 (US$56,700)...

The ONLY way someone here could survive on say $35,000 a year or less is to share, have very few expenses (ie never go out), already own their home or still live with parents.

Anything under say... $50,000 in Canberra would be considered doing it rough, especially if they rent or have to pay a mortgage... even single people.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Around $6,000 (R)

[ZuWo]

Now that I have a part-time teaching job it's about $ 12'000 annually. Party affiliation: Independent.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Somewhere around the middle of the second bracket, going by what my lifestyle would cost if I weren't getting university room and board.

~$2,500-3,000 if we're not doing that.

[Хahar 🤔]

I don't make any money, but my parents are in the second-highest bracket.

[opebo]

...$27,000 a year, a bachelor, living in one of the cheapest states in the  union, Oklahoma... In 2012, I should be making $31,000 a year

From toils I make about half your latter figure, though I generally spend half again as much.  And that is living in a somewhat cheaper developing country ($100 rent, $2 meals, but the car costs just as much).

[dead0man]

Roughly a third of the message board are dirt poor Dems living off of one teat or another?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I don't make any money, but my parents are in the second-highest bracket.

Get a food service job.  Everyone should have one at least onece in their life.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Roughly a third of the message board are dirt poor Dems living off of one teat or another?

Well, I feel barely-hidden classist contempt for you, too, dear. *patpatpat*

[LastVoter]

Roughly a third of the message board are dirt poor Dems living off of one teat or another?

You've got about as many dirt poor Republicans and Independents in proportion to total poll. Lots of people under 25, so do you expect everyone to be making over 100k?

[dead0man]

Roughly a third of the message board are dirt poor Dems living off of one teat or another?

Well, I feel barely-hidden classist contempt for you, too, dear. *patpatpat*

That would make sense if I was wealthy and hadn't worked 40hrs a week for the last 18 years.

Roughly a third of the message board are dirt poor Dems living off of one teat or another?

You've got about as many dirt poor Republicans and Independents in proportion to total poll. Lots of people under 25, so do you expect everyone to be making over 100k?

Again, I don't make 100k a year, why would I expect others to?  But I did make more than $8500 a year when I was 25, as should most healthy, non-mentally handicapped people.  Yes, of course, some here can't find work, some aren't healthy, some are retarded (all good reasons to be a Dem by the way ), but some don't have those excuses.  The ones with good excuses shouldn't feel bad or offended at my post.  The job market being sh**t maybe a good temporary reason to not have a job, but if its your excuse for year after year, it might be you.

Yeah, yeah, I'm a classist asshat that should be thankful he has a job.  Everyone on the dole deserves it and nobody ever wants to be there.  I'm the asshole.  The guy who went to liberal arts school on daddy's dime (or student loans) is the real victim here.  His handlers told him that college wasn't to help you get a job, it was to make you a more rounded person and you should go to school for what you love, not for what will help you put food on your table.  It's not his fault his handlers were deluded apes.  The guy too good to flip burgers or pour coffee (but not so good he can't take handouts from others) is the victim because he can't make a middle class income doing dissertations on Engles.  (I'd mention the lack of middle class unskilled labor jobs and the people who want those jobs, but I don't think we have any of those people here....at least those guys were willing to work....and willing to strike if they didn't get their 15 min break every 30 minutes too)


No, I'm not bitter...why do you ask?

[opebo]

Again, I don't make 100k a year, why would I expect others to?  But I did make more than $8500 a year when I was 25, as should most healthy, non-mentally handicapped people.  Yes, of course, some here can't find work, some aren't healthy, some are retarded (all good reasons to be a Dem by the way ), but some don't have those excuses.  The ones with good excuses shouldn't feel bad or offended at my post.  The job market being sh**t maybe a good temporary reason to not have a job, but if its your excuse for year after year, it might be you.

Um, deadman, huge numbers of americans receive only $8,500/year.  This is a normal situation, and your being shocked about it just shows you are out of touch with the reality of your community.

Yeah, yeah, I'm a classist asshat that should be thankful he has a job.  Everyone on the dole deserves it and nobody ever wants to be there.  I'm the asshole.  The guy who went to liberal arts school on daddy's dime (or student loans) is the real victim here.  His handlers told him that college wasn't to help you get a job, it was to make you a more rounded person and you should go to school for what you love, not for what will help you put food on your table.  It's not his fault his handlers were deluded apes.  The guy too good to flip burgers or pour coffee (but not so good he can't take handouts from others)

What now?  There is no dole, Deadman, all those people living on $8,000 or so get it precisely by working at Walmart or flipping burgers.  These are the kinds of jobs available nowadays.

is the victim because he can't make a middle class income doing dissertations on Engles.  (I'd mention the lack of middle class unskilled labor jobs and the people who want those jobs, but I don't think we have any of those people here....at least those guys were willing to work....and willing to strike if they didn't get their 15 min break every 30 minutes too)

No, I'm not bitter...why do you ask?

Your concerns are comically misplaced, angry white man.  The problem has nothing whatever to do with these petty value judgments about the peccadilloes of powerless individuals, but simply bad policy.

[Ebowed]

Get a food service job.  Everyone should have one at least onece in their life.

Yes, and anyone who owns a distillery will agree with you.

[bgwah]

Dead's bitterness about college is a common theme in his posts. Though I don't really disagree that some people spend 4 years getting a quite obviously useless degree and then whine about it.

[Хahar 🤔]

I don't make any money, but my parents are in the second-highest bracket.

Get a food service job.  Everyone should have one at least onece in their life.

I have neither the time nor the inclination. Maybe in college.

[fezzyfestoon]

The first one (I) until the new year or so.

[LastVoter]

Dead's bitterness about college is a common theme in his posts. Though I don't really disagree that some people spend 4 years getting a quite obviously useless degree and then whine about it.

He ignored the fact that as many Republicans and Indies make under 8.5k in proportion to tal voters in the poll. And it's not like college is completely useless, there is still a benefit in starting salary vs lost years of employ + lost money when going to college(Assuming In-state debt will probably be no more than 40k for people). I don't think that getting liberal arts degrees with 200k of debt from a non-ivy private school is a good idea though.