SENATE BILL: Libyan Aid Bill (law'd)

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Nay

[bgwah]

"The Senate"? Collective responsibility meme was beaten to the ground by the Germans in 1940s, dude.

Very well, Kal, I'll rephrase.

There are certain Senators in this body who want to do everything possible to prevent the new Libya from surviving.  It's disturbing, and I applaud those who understand the implications if this legislation is defeated or substantially modified.

You're certainly not going to get me to vote aye with that attitude.

[Marokai Backbeat]

"The Senate"? Collective responsibility meme was beaten to the ground by the Germans in 1940s, dude.

Very well, Kal, I'll rephrase.

There are certain Senators in this body who want to do everything possible to prevent the new Libya from surviving.  It's disturbing, and I applaud those who understand the implications if this legislation is defeated or substantially modified.

You're certainly not going to get me to vote aye with that attitude.

It doesn't help that he's basically right. Why the hell else would a bill about giving a nation recovering from civil war just 100 million dollars actually have seven pages of debate? I don't understand all the hand wringing from the opposition here, but I do know that practically every time Ben has come to the Senate asking for anything, several of you have laughed in his face every time.

And if you're voting based on whether or not Ben upsets you, please re-evaluate the reasons why you vote for or against legislation.

[bgwah]

"The Senate"? Collective responsibility meme was beaten to the ground by the Germans in 1940s, dude.

Very well, Kal, I'll rephrase.

There are certain Senators in this body who want to do everything possible to prevent the new Libya from surviving.  It's disturbing, and I applaud those who understand the implications if this legislation is defeated or substantially modified.

You're certainly not going to get me to vote aye with that attitude.

It doesn't help that he's basically right. Why the hell else would a bill about giving a nation recovering from civil war just 100 million dollars actually have seven pages of debate? I don't understand all the hand wringing from the opposition here, but I do know that practically every time Ben has come to the Senate asking for anything, several of you have laughed in his face every time.

And if you're voting based on whether or not Ben upsets you, please re-evaluate the reasons why you vote for or against legislation.

If one is attempting to get support for their bill, lashing out with hyperbole isn't going to get anyone to switch your side. I personally find the whole "you're either with us or against us" neocon mentality tired and offensive.

[Napoleon]

Marokai is right we have too much debate.

Motion to table

[Marokai Backbeat]

"The Senate"? Collective responsibility meme was beaten to the ground by the Germans in 1940s, dude.

Very well, Kal, I'll rephrase.

There are certain Senators in this body who want to do everything possible to prevent the new Libya from surviving.  It's disturbing, and I applaud those who understand the implications if this legislation is defeated or substantially modified.

You're certainly not going to get me to vote aye with that attitude.

It doesn't help that he's basically right. Why the hell else would a bill about giving a nation recovering from civil war just 100 million dollars actually have seven pages of debate? I don't understand all the hand wringing from the opposition here, but I do know that practically every time Ben has come to the Senate asking for anything, several of you have laughed in his face every time.

And if you're voting based on whether or not Ben upsets you, please re-evaluate the reasons why you vote for or against legislation.

If one is attempting to get support for their bill, lashing out with hyperbole isn't going to get anyone to switch your side. I personally find the whole "you're either with us or against us" neocon mentality tired and offensive.

There is no "with us or against us" mentality here, only a "grow the f**k up" attitude. Look, you can oppose this if you want, there is no harm in being honest about your position if you oppose the notion of aid to Libya. There isn't, however, legitimate reason for this constant handwringing and amending-to-death that's going on right now aside from the fact that this fits a pattern of you and Me Too trying to hold everything up that Ben wants for foreign affairs reasons. It's 100 million dollars, dude. We're not handing them the whole piggy bank.

This immature streak this Senate has had is the worst I've ever seen in my time in Atlasia and it has got to stop. I've never seen this Senate's direction so bent out of shape by personal grudges and immature amending, and when I have, it certainly never received near-unanimous bloc voting it's gotten from you, BRTD, and Napoleon. The debate in this bill perfectly epitomizes what is wrong with this Senate.

[bgwah]

I'm really tired of all the nastiness. Just stop, Marokai. There were no personal grudges between Senators until just now...  I was hoping you would be a positive addition to the Senate. Please don't prove me wrong.

[Marokai Backbeat]

What I want is for this Senate to do it's business genuinely and in good faith, and not prance around acting dishonestly and trying to use parliamentary stall tactics for no reason at all. This Senate has been negligent toward a whole host of issues, probably because we've been wasting time going to the mat over a 100 million dollar aid bill that someone is trying to hold up over alcohol or trying to turn it into a loan.

If you want to make this into some posturing position about how evil Marokai is at it again, running around the Senate halls with a hatchet, go ahead. But that's old. And the only time you're wasting is your own by keeping this bill on the floor a million times longer than it legitimately needed to be.

[Napoleon]

Wah wah wah

This is why I rarely post anymore.

[bgwah]

What I want is for this Senate to do it's business genuinely and in good faith, and not prance around acting dishonestly and trying to use parliamentary stall tactics for no reason at all. This Senate has been negligent toward a whole host of issues, probably because we've been wasting time going to the mat over a 100 million dollar aid bill that someone is trying to hold up over alcohol or trying to turn it into a loan.

If you want to make this into some posturing position about how evil Marokai is at it again, running around the Senate halls with a hatchet, go ahead. But that's old. And the only time you're wasting is your own by keeping this bill on the floor a million times longer than it legitimately needed to be.

My amendments were legitimate. I'm allowed to offer amendments to improve the quality of a bill, and there's no reason to attack me for that. Why would this be a stall tactic? My party lost a Senate seat, thus it would have been in my interest to get it out of the way quickly if what you say is true and I have some ulterior motive.

You're the one who is hurling obscenities, insulting people, and labeling people flame warriors in your what, fourth day in the Senate? Chill out... I think it's neat that you have lots of ideas even if I don't agree with them all. I've tried to avoid dissing you or accusing you of anything the past few weeks. Let's try to be more positive and not let past grudges ruin the Senate.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Marokai is right we have too much debate.

Motion to table

Of course it won't pass. You can filibuster this bill by procedural tricks like this, but you're only keeping other bills from getting their consideration by occupying this slot forever.,

Just pass it.

Oh, I have a personal appeal to both bgwah and Marokai: shut up, guys. I don't give crap about your personal animosities, neither should the Senate.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Marokai is right we have too much debate.

Motion to table

Of course it won't pass. You can filibuster this bill by procedural tricks like this, but you're only keeping other bills from getting their consideration by occupying this slot forever.,

Just pass it.

Oh, I have a personal appeal to both bgwah and Marokai: shut up, guys. I don't give crap about your personal animosities, neither should the Senate.

/sigh, you're right. Fine fine. I just dislike that it seems like every aspect of Atlasian politics these days is driven less by actual ideological differences and more by personal and petty grudges. It's the most immediate problem we have.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Marokai is right we have too much debate.

Motion to table

Of course it won't pass. You can filibuster this bill by procedural tricks like this, but you're only keeping other bills from getting their consideration by occupying this slot forever.,

Just pass it.

Oh, I have a personal appeal to both bgwah and Marokai: shut up, guys. I don't give crap about your personal animosities, neither should the Senate.

/sigh, you're right. Fine fine. I just dislike that it seems like every aspect of Atlasian politics these days is driven less by actual ideological differences and more by personal and petty grudges. It's the most immediate problem we have.

Well, by responding to everything with a great deal of emotions you're doing a hell of a job to keep it going. You know the other side will respond and so on, so on...

I made a mistake in Atlasia to respond to every crap. It didn't work.

[bgwah]

There was nothing personal about my amendments. Nothing. I don't even know where that idea came from.

*Shrug*

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Just pass the damn bill!

[Bacon King]

The vote on the current amendment fails, with three votes in favor and five votes against, as well as two non-voting abstentions.

Motion to table

A motion to table can only be made during a period of debate, i.e., when there's not a vote occurring. If you'd like to make a new motion to table (or if anyone has any other amendments to offer...) I'll give you 24 hours; otherwise I'll start a final vote.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Just pass the damn bill!

[Bacon King]

Nevermind, disregard that last post. Voting on amendments only lasts five days. It failed when time elapsed on November 5, with three votes in favor and four votes against, and three non-voting abstentions.

Because voting ended at that time, Napoleon's motion to table was thus valid.

Therefore, Senators, there is now a vote to table this legislation. Voting shall last 48 hours, or until the motion has enough votes to pass or fail. For the motion to pass, two-thirds of those voting (not counting abstentions) must vote in favor. Please vote aye, nay, or abstain.

[Bacon King]

Just pass the damn bill!

Sorry. I do want this bill to pass, but I must govern the Senate will full impartiality.

[Napoleon]

Aye

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Sorry. I do want this bill to pass, but I must govern the Senate will full impartiality.

I'd desire nothing less   That message was for the Senate itself, not the Presiding Officer.
I urge the Senate to quickly dispatch the Motion to Table, and PASS THE DAMN BILL!!!  The time has come to step up and help Libya; rather than allow it to descend into chaos.

PASS THE DAMN BILL!!!

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Nay

[bgwah]

aye

[Marokai Backbeat]

Nay.

[Mopsus]

Nay