Poor conservatives, I don't get it. Righties please explain.

[RRB]

I recently spoke with a hard core Republican who makes not much more then minimum wage who was opposed to the Jobs Bill because it would raise taxes.  WHAT!  Are you kidding me, With his Clinton era Earned Income tax rate, and his Obama era Make work Pay $850, he probably pays little to nothing in taxes.  In fact, because of Liberals, he probably gets a check back.  He will also have to work his whole life to make enough to reach the one million mark that someone else would have to make in a year to be effected.  Yet he thinks HIS taxes could go up because of Obama.

I also recently talked to a farmer who commented on all of those ADC moms breaking our country.  He was recenly paid $25,000 in farm subsidies.  That's alot of ADC checks folks.

Turn on the TV and see old folks on Social Security marching in Tea party rallies.  Since FDR, the right has faught against that which keeps them out of squaller.

I could go on and on..........

Why are there so many Republicans who go to the polls with a rope so that the people they vote for can hang them???

[phk]

The 2000s are the age of the contradictory term, "big government conservative".

[All Along The Watchtower]

I recently spoke with a hard core Republican who makes not much more then minimum wage who was opposed to the Jobs Bill because it would raise taxes.  WHAT!  Are you kidding me, With his Clinton era Earned Income tax rate, and his Obama era Make work Pay $850, he probably pays little to nothing in taxes.  In fact, because of Liberals, he probably gets a check back.  He will also have to work his whole life to make enough to reach the one million mark that someone else would have to make in a year to be effected.  Yet he thinks HIS taxes could go up because of Obama.

I also recently talked to a farmer who commented on all of those ADC moms breaking our country.  He was recenly paid $25,000 in farm subsidies.  That's alot of ADC checks folks.

Turn on the TV and see old folks on Social Security marching in Tea party rallies.  Since FDR, the right has faught against that which keeps them out of squaller.

I could go on and on..........

Why are there so many Republicans who go to the polls with a rope so that the people they vote for can hang them???

In those cases, they probably resent the idea, whether they're conscious of it or not, that their taxes may pay for "those other people."

Of course, they like to think it's because they're "self-made men"...as they continue to receive more government aid than they put in.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

As a hard-core Republican who grew up in a low-income household and who until recently didn't make enough to pay much in federal taxes, I'll attempt a response.

Bear in mind that I also come from the Republican perspective of the 2000's, not the libertarian monster creature that masquerades as conservatism in the recent environment.  I identify with Jack Kemp, "empowerment zones", "compassionate conservatism", etc.  Herman Cain recently said that the word "empowerment" is "liberal".... go figure.

There are both economic and cultural reasons for our adherence to the GOP.

Although many of us have had to depend on government programs from time to time, we do not see this as an honorable way of life.  My father did have to apply for disability benefits after a massive heart attack.  He appreciated that these benefits were available, but would have rather worked if he could.  He never took vacations and went to work even when he was sick or when the weather closed everything down.  He would have worked until his dying day if he could.  He accepted the benefits, but did not appreciate the lifestyle choice of people who go on welfare or receive disability benefits when they really could be working for a living.  There was also a short time when we had to depend on food stamps.  Again, this was not a proud moment.  I think many of us see Democrats as encouragers of a lifestyle of dependency on government programs.

I'm not a redneck and live in a urban area, but I've always had a deep-seeded resentment of the haughty attitude of wealthy liberals.   Just because I'd rather watch Married with Children than a Broadway musical doesn't make you better than me.  I'm a graphic artist and web designer, but I'm sorry - abstract art doesn't make sense to me.  What does this have to do with politics?  Absolutely nothing... but its what I think of when I think of Democrats.

Jesus Christ said "blessed are the meek" and cared for the poor, but yet liberals still have a problem with the little town of Whiteville, TN having crosses on their water tower?  I hate sports, but I'd glady go to a football game and pray and protest the ACLU's efforts to ban prayer at high school football games.  The modern liberal movement made poor white southerners choose between Almighty God and their pocketbooks.  Why were you so surprised we chose God?  (For the record, I do have a special place in my heart for liberal and moderate Christians)

Wealthy liberals spend their money defending spotted owls or transgendered rabbits or whatever the hell you people do.  Wealthy conservatives are people that we know in our community - people that employ others, that give money to our churches, that support our community.

Just typing from my stream of consciousness here.... now paging Joe Republic to tear it all down

[bgwah]

^ Beautiful!!! Naso has been quiet lately, thanks for filling the void.

[All Along The Watchtower]

For quite some time in America's early history, there was a class of small-landholding yeoman farmers. It's this legacy-Jefferson referred to these men as the 'basis of republican values"-that has given rise to the historical-based myth of "American rugged individualism."

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

As a hard-core Republican who grew up in a low-income household and who until recently didn't make enough to pay much in federal taxes, I'll attempt a response.

Bear in mind that I also come from the Republican perspective of the 2000's, not the libertarian monster creature that masquerades as conservatism in the recent environment.  I identify with Jack Kemp, "empowerment zones", "compassionate conservatism", etc.  Herman Cain recently said that the word "empowerment" is "liberal".... go figure.

There are both economic and cultural reasons for our adherence to the GOP.

Although many of us have had to depend on government programs from time to time, we do not see this as an honorable way of life.  My father did have to apply for disability benefits after a massive heart attack.  He appreciated that these benefits were available, but would have rather worked if he could.  He never took vacations and went to work even when he was sick or when the weather closed everything down.  He would have worked until his dying day if he could.  He accepted the benefits, but did not appreciate the lifestyle choice of people who go on welfare or receive disability benefits when they really could be working for a living.  There was also a short time when we had to depend on food stamps.  Again, this was not a proud moment.  I think many of us see Democrats as encouragers of a lifestyle of dependency on government programs.

I'm not a redneck and live in a urban area, but I've always had a deep-seeded resentment of the haughty attitude of wealthy liberals.   Just because I'd rather watch Married with Children than a Broadway musical doesn't make you better than me.  I'm a graphic artist and web designer, but I'm sorry - abstract art doesn't make sense to me.  What does this have to do with politics?  Absolutely nothing... but its what I think of when I think of Democrats.

Jesus Christ said "blessed are the meek" and cared for the poor, but yet liberals still have a problem with the little town of Whiteville, TN having crosses on their water tower?  I hate sports, but I'd glady go to a football game and pray and protest the ACLU's efforts to ban prayer at high school football games.  The modern liberal movement made poor white southerners choose between Almighty God and their pocketbooks.  Why were you so surprised we chose God?  (For the record, I do have a special place in my heart for liberal and moderate Christians)

Wealthy liberals spend their money defending spotted owls or transgendered rabbits or whatever the hell you people do.  Wealthy conservatives are people that we know in our community - people that employ others, that give money to our churches, that support our community.

Just typing from my stream of consciousness here.... now paging Joe Republic to tear it all down

So basically it's George Soros' fault that you vote against your economic interests?

[Mercenary]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I just had to thank you for the laugh.



Edit: I suppose I can reply to this too since I came from a low income household in a semi-rural. I am/was conservative in some ways, although depending on the topic I may be liberal as well.

So basically it is a few things.
- People don't necessarily vote based on how something directly affects them, they may believe that something else is good for the country. A lot of people buy into the "trickle down economics", although I never really have, and they think that the economy will improve as long as the wealthy have low taxes. That somehow, despite low demand, the rich will create jobs to satisfy this non-existent demand.
- People have more a philosophical position on the issue. They simply think it is wrong to tax people differently because of their status/wealth. A lot of these people support things like a flat tax or a sales tax.

The posting above seems more like some may vote Republican, rather than why they might rant against a jobs bill though. And a lot of people indeed do place social issues above economic ones, yet others place economic ones above social. I have my own priorities as well, which unfortunately are not ones promoted by either political party.

Some of voting is just ignorance too. People oppose or support something because they don't know the entire content of it. Like the health care issue or the jobs bill or whatever. It is interesting if you look at polls on what Americans want and then their position on a bill that does what they want, they'll have opposite positions.

So should someone vote based on their economic interests? Is that somehow noble?
I can understand why some people do, but I don't think that should be your motive for voting a specific way. You should vote based on what you believe is best for the nation, not yourself. And that could be voting for a more progressive tax or a flatter tax, just depends on what you feel would be better. Too many people place themselves above others, so despite having moved away from some right-wing thinking on economic issues, I still quite dislike when people use "voting against your economic interests" as if that is a bad thing. Last I checked, it was greed that was the bad thing.

[memphis]

People don't get that they are the welfare queens. All our schools and roads and police etc don't come cheap. We all are beneficiaries. There is a huge state of denial.

[dead0man]

My favorite part was when the only person that might have an answer got sh**t on for answering.  Preconceived notions for the win!  You may now go back to your bash thread disguised as a question thread.




(and I'm not saying poor conservatives voting for Republicans make sense)

[anvi]

htmldon,

I don't know to what extent I have the authority to speak for "liberals," especially since I'm confused myself most of the time about where exactly I'm supposed to fit on the prepackaged political spectrum that exists in our culture now.

I certainly agree that there is a lot of public assistance fraud perpetrated by people who intentionally take advantage of the system.  But I don't think that "liberals" as a group ether encourage that "lifestyle" or wanted people to become eternally dependent on the aid.  I think the intention was for the helping hand to be there in case people really needed it, as your father did, as you did, and as I once did as a disabled college student.  It's a difficult thing to navigate, all this public aid; if we have it, we risk fraud and dependency, but if we don't have it, we risk neglecting people who are genuinely in need, and we risk losing the benefit of lots of human potential in our country that lies in people who might at times be too disadvantaged to have much of a chance otherwise.  But I don't think those who genuinely need help should be embarrassed by it, or consider it dishonorable.  Helping one another when we are in need is one of the best things human beings can do with their time.  "The quality of mercy is not strained, it droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven upon the place beneath. It is twice blest, it blesseth him that gives and him that takes."

As far as the other stuff goes, as you well know, liberals aren't any more of one cultural flavor than conservatives are.  Happily, life is far more complex, and interesting, then the stereotypes that have been erected to represent it.

JMO.

[krazen1211]

I recently spoke with a hard core Republican who makes not much more then minimum wage who was opposed to the Jobs Bill because it would raise taxes.  WHAT!  Are you kidding me, With his Clinton era Earned Income tax rate, and his Obama era Make work Pay $850, he probably pays little to nothing in taxes. 

Poor liberal doesn't realize that the bulk of the EIC historical expansions have occurred under Republican Presidents, and that the Making Work Pay credit has expired.

The answer is obvious. Here in New Jersey the Democrats and the NJEA take money from working poor and give it to the rich unions.

[Simfan34]

I think it has to do with the idea that they think their monies are going to "unworthy" folks unlike them. We also have a populace so misinformed that they can seriously go and shout "get your government hands off my Medicare". So, basically, the right is wrong.

What we need is a return to compassionate conservatism, an emphasis on workfare and other social programs that emphasize personal responsibility. But HTMLdon is right, when people go and see the "weird" stuff crunchy democratic types promote, they are alienated, if not due to outright disagreement, then by a simple inability to relate. Like opposing an underground highway due to the temporary disruption of the migratory patterns of bass.

But your non-elitism is showing, HTMLdon. All of us know that Broadway musicals are actually part of the broad culture. Real high culture is opera. That used to be a conservative thing, shame. I would have liked to have had a chat with Buckley on Nabucco.

[Torie]

Money isn't everything, and some may think that they current impecunious condition will change over time, because they have confidence in their own capabilities to row their own boat towards the promise land.

A white poor took her friend to the county clinic in Riverside, where those who can't pay go. It was packed with browns, many presumably illegals. I am still hearing about that incident.

[Sbane]

Some of it has to do with excessive protections of species people just don't understand much about. Many times it is just a way to stop development. Sometimes, like in the case of the redwood forests, it is justified. I think environmental protectionism does go overboard sometimes, but other times it is needed to protect something that just won't come back. If you want to take a chainsaw to the redwood forests, I'll take a chainsaw to you! Ahem..

Anyways, then there are the public sector unions. When teachers can't get fired regardless of how incompetent they are, or police and firefighters retire and get lavish pensions at the expense of the poor, you would think they have a good reason to vote Republican. And at the state and local levels, a lot of taxes are paid by the poor as well, so lavish benefits do hurt them. And things like environmental protectionism that stops construction or logging hurts them too.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

People who are only in the party for social issues and unknowingly latch on to the rest of the far-right agenda.

[bgwah]

My favorite part was when the only person that might have an answer got sh**t on for answering.  Preconceived notions for the win!  You may now go back to your bash thread disguised as a question thread.




(and I'm not saying poor conservatives voting for Republicans make sense)

I find people who don't know any liberals and base their opinions off of wildly inaccurate TV stereotypes amusing. Sue me----after I'm done watching this Broadway musical, that is.

[lowtech redneck]

For the exact same reasons many upper-income people vote Democrat:

1.) 'Values voting' is not restricted to social issues, so they are not voting purely on the basis of self-interest (remember Obama supporting a higher tax on capital gains even if it resulted in less revenues, for the sake of 'fairness'?).

2.) They believe in the concept of class mobility (upwards or downwards), so they don't want to support policies that may adversely affect themselves in the future).

3.) They believe its in their enlightened self-interests to support policies based on percieved systemic consequences and outcomes, and are convinced that the policies they support are in the best interests of the country, and therefore in the best interests for themselves in the long-term.

[All Along The Watchtower]

I also think the more liberals complain about "poor people voting against their best interests", the more some poor people will vote Republican.

And really, many poor people are apolitical anyway.

[NVGonzalez]

Some of these people are just super committed to their religions that they wouldn't vote for the Democrat even if their economic interests are represented. Others do it because they believe the myth that they can become the CEO of a giant corporation even though they make less than 30k a year and don't have any resources. Problem is it is like having that 14 year old fat out of shape diabetic kid believe he will be in the NBA someday.

[memphis]

I remember one time Bushie mentioned that a ladyfriend of his always voted GOP because she was afraid the Dems would take her disability away.

[TeePee4Prez]

Htmldon is dead right: Democrats have a huge perception problem among the people referred to in the OP.

Many self-described conservatives consider the American left-wing to be elitist, out-of-touch, and contemptuous of ordinary people and their values.

My quote of the day "False Populism."  A lot of older, socially conservative whites feel that Social Secuirty, Disability, Medicare, and farm subsidies are "getting what they deserve/earned", but an unemployment check, Section 8 housing, and AFDC are for "lazy bums who don't want to work."  Yep, there's the 1% vs. the 99%.  But in that 99% are the "Bootlicking 40-50%" who don't know tax policy and see any rate increase as affecting them and any spending as helping "those (minorities, welfare queens, slackers) people who don't deserve it." And they won't increase taxes on the rich because "they earned it." I'm not going to say all of it is inherit racism, but a lot of it is.  Some of it's intergenerational.

[dead0man]

Nobody thinks guns play a part?  No matter how much some Dems try and distance themselves from it, they are the party of gun control.  That reason alone prevents many many people from voting Dem.

I'm sure you guys could turn that into another insult if you try hard enough.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Nobody thinks guns play a part?  No matter how much some Dems try and distance themselves from it, they are the party of gun control.  That reason alone prevents many many people from voting Dem.

I'm sure you guys could turn that into another insult if you try hard enough.

Democrats have that reputation but they've basically done nothing on guns on the national level in a decade. Gun rights have been expanded far more than what they used to be several years ago.

Is it an insult to point out that perceptions being unwarranted is silly?

[dead0man]

Perception is reality....or something.