Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 17, 2014, 10:36:15 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  International General Discussion (Moderators: Peter, afleitch)
| | |-+  France General Discussion II: Living under Marxism
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 29 30 31 32 33 [34] Print
Author Topic: France General Discussion II: Living under Marxism  (Read 119168 times)
Famous Mortimer
WillipsBrighton
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 886
United States


View Profile
« Reply #825 on: September 10, 2014, 10:02:22 pm »
Ignore

I assume the comments about poor people are true. They actually make me like Hollande more.

I also think poor people are mostly awful and largely responsible for their own plight. I'm a socialist but mostly because I think people are too stupid to live their own lives. They need the government to keep them from falling into outright squalor.
You sir, are a horrible, horrible person. The new "worst."

You live in Florida. That whole state proves my thesis.
Logged
ChairmanSanchez
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15315
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.29, S: -5.04

P

View Profile
« Reply #826 on: September 10, 2014, 10:30:23 pm »
Ignore

I assume the comments about poor people are true. They actually make me like Hollande more.

I also think poor people are mostly awful and largely responsible for their own plight. I'm a socialist but mostly because I think people are too stupid to live their own lives. They need the government to keep them from falling into outright squalor.
You sir, are a horrible, horrible person. The new "worst."

You live in Florida. That whole state proves my thesis.
lol
Logged

If a burial strikes my family as too practical, I'd go for either a viking funeral on one of the Great Lakes or to be sealed up in a tomb with my closest servants and bang-maids so they may wait on my every need in the afterlife.
Antonio V
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 30801
France


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -4.87

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #827 on: September 11, 2014, 11:46:25 am »
Ignore

Feels weird saying that but... Sanchez is absolutely, 100% correct. You are a horrible person.
Logged

Quote from: IRC
22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It REALLY is.



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
Armand Duval
Zanas46
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1905
France


View Profile
« Reply #828 on: September 11, 2014, 12:42:39 pm »
Ignore

I assume the comments about poor people are true. They actually make me like Hollande more.

I also think poor people are mostly awful and largely responsible for their own plight. I'm a socialist but mostly because I think people are too stupid to live their own lives. They need the government to keep them from falling into outright squalor.
I too was of this opinion. Ten years ago, as a teenager. Then I realised it wasn't what being a socialist is about. Being a socialist is about eventually getting rid of government altogether, once inequalities are settled. If not, it's called fascism.
Logged

"F**k you Lion, I'm the King !" Mr Bear

IN NATE WE TRUST

Long Live Bretzels !


That's not how the left works.  We make swords out of our enemy's iron thrones.

My French blog
swl
Full Member
***
Posts: 211
France


View Profile
« Reply #829 on: September 13, 2014, 01:53:00 pm »
Ignore

An interesting thing is that we wants to come back on a more centrist position. He even suggested that the UMP should merge with the UDI. That's a good development, and it's also obviously a good strategy given that centrist voters who chose Hollande in 2012 are unlikely to do it again. He wants to avoid a centrist candidate in 2017, and between Hollande and Sarkozy most of them will choose Sarkozy.
On the other hand, since Hollande/Valls also opted for a centrist position, there is plenty of room on the left and the right for Mélenchon/Montebourg/(others?) and Le Pen, but not enough to win a presidential election.

Even if Sarkozy will probably become leader the UMP, I still a lot of doubt about its capacity to run for the primaries in 2016: his problems with the justice are not going to get any better in the coming months/years.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2014, 01:57:57 pm by swl »Logged
Antonio V
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 30801
France


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -4.87

P P P

View Profile
« Reply #830 on: September 13, 2014, 02:03:50 pm »
Ignore

An interesting thing is that we wants to come back on a more centrist position.

No. I have no idea what led you to think so, but this is most definitely not the case.

Anyway, if he really does come back, considering his precarious judicial position, his campaign will be something Berlusconi-style. It's going to be a tragedy of epic proportion.
Logged

Quote from: IRC
22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It REALLY is.



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
swl
Full Member
***
Posts: 211
France


View Profile
« Reply #831 on: September 15, 2014, 01:46:13 pm »
Ignore

I just listened or read what he said, or what is said about him. That would be very bad for Hollande/Valls, there is no difference between them and a more centrist Sarkozy, whether on economy, immigration, security or even individual freedoms (see the last law on terrorism for example).

Why would people vote for the PS when they try to imitate Sarkozy? By definition, the original is better. I can really imagine the PS having a PASOK fate -  they will do something like 12% in 2017.
Logged
CrabCake
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 798


View Profile
« Reply #832 on: September 15, 2014, 02:10:33 pm »
Ignore

PS will probably be saved from the fate of PASOK by single-member constituencies and the lack of a credible, anti-establishment French version of Syriza.

(They are probably slightly safer than the PSOE is from Podemos, and much safer than Irish or Dutch Labour)
Logged

Velasco
andi
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1580
Western Sahara


View Profile WWW
« Reply #833 on: September 15, 2014, 04:16:42 pm »
Ignore

I was thinking that the real 'anti-establishment' peril in France was Panzergirl and not the innocuous FdG. The French electoral system might produce a supermajority for the UMP, instead of 'saving' the PS from a terrible fate. As for PSOE, ask me after the 2015 elections, especially if a 'Grand Coalition' materializes from the air.
Logged

CrabCake
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 798


View Profile
« Reply #834 on: September 15, 2014, 04:32:00 pm »
Ignore

I was thinking that the real 'anti-establishment' peril in France was Panzergirl and not the innocuous FdG. The French electoral system might produce a supermajority for the UMP, instead of 'saving' the PS from a terrible fate. As for PSOE, ask me after the 2015 elections, especially if a 'Grand Coalition' materializes from the air.

I think, as anti-establishment and "hip", the Front are at present; they're not going to steal PS's core vote like Syriza did to PASOK, and I don't think any existing French party really can.
Logged

JosepBroz
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 57
Belgium


View Profile
« Reply #835 on: September 16, 2014, 07:19:43 am »
Ignore

I was thinking that the real 'anti-establishment' peril in France was Panzergirl and not the innocuous FdG. The French electoral system might produce a supermajority for the UMP, instead of 'saving' the PS from a terrible fate. As for PSOE, ask me after the 2015 elections, especially if a 'Grand Coalition' materializes from the air.

PSOE going into Grand Coalition with PP will be the signing of their death warrant. No way are they stupid enough to do that unless they are pressured by the European centre-left clique that seems to govern what these parties do. What's more likely to happen is that Podemos, PSOE and Izquierda Unida form a very small majority government with nationalist parties as constructive support. After that it's anybody's game. Spanish politics is going to get very, very interesting...

I'm intrigued as to how the Dutch Labour Party will fare. The nature of Dutch politics means that Lazarus-style comebacks are not out of the question. Last time out PvdA were trailing SP and VVD by 10 points (which is huge in the Lowlands) in the polls back yet somehow managed to argue that a vote for the former was not tactical enough, and the rest is history. The fact remains that had Dutch voters had the balls to give SP a small victory over VVD, other parties simply could not have ignored them.
Logged
Velasco
andi
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1580
Western Sahara


View Profile WWW
« Reply #836 on: September 16, 2014, 09:12:27 am »
Ignore

I was thinking that the real 'anti-establishment' peril in France was Panzergirl and not the innocuous FdG. The French electoral system might produce a supermajority for the UMP, instead of 'saving' the PS from a terrible fate. As for PSOE, ask me after the 2015 elections, especially if a 'Grand Coalition' materializes from the air.
PSOE going into Grand Coalition with PP will be the signing of their death warrant. No way are they stupid enough to do that unless they are pressured by the European centre-left clique that seems to govern what these parties do. What's more likely to happen is that Podemos, PSOE and Izquierda Unida form a very small majority government with nationalist parties as constructive support. After that it's anybody's game. Spanish politics is going to get very, very interesting...

Asked on electoral coalitions with Podemos, Pedro Sánchez said that he's not going to make deals with "populism". Actually, he said that PSOE is "incompatible" with Rajoy's "resignation" and with said 'populistic' peril incarnated by Podemos. However, Susana Díaz was more ambiguous on the issue, stating that she doesn't want to be distracted by "lucubrations". That's important, because she's likely the shadow boss of the Spanish socialists. Also, a PSOE+Podemos+IU majority is hard to achieve, as I tried to explain in the Spain's discussion thread, and nationalistic parties such as ERC are not in a 'constructive support' phase. We have left behind the Zapatero years. Don't discard pressure from the "European centre-left clique", of course (Sorry for the off-topic).
Logged

Pages: 1 ... 29 30 31 32 33 [34] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines