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| | |-+  Greenhouse Gas Emissions Reaches Record Levels, Scientists Say
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Author Topic: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Reaches Record Levels, Scientists Say  (Read 956 times)
IDS Speaker Flo
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« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2014, 09:36:55 pm »
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US emissions are at a low, and dropping, it's the developing nations that are reaching record highs.

We're still the worst nation per capita for our emissions. We really shouldn't place so much blame on the underdeveloped countries, because our current economic system makes it so much cheaper to use non renewable resources than to use renewable resources in their factories to produce cheap goods for highly developed countries such as the U.S., so the companies are forced to continue using non renewable energy in order to continue to profit.

The problem really lies in the developed countries exploiting the underdeveloped ones.
So...we're exploiting them by buying their products?

We're exploiting them by continuing an economic system that creates a circle of poverty among those citizens and damages their environment by creating tremendous amounts of waste and that necessitates the need to use non renewables and pay their employees very low wages in order to keep prices so low.
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I see your point, and maybe we're debating over semantics, but the fact that about 1 million children are functionally homeless to me is a crisis.
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« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2014, 09:45:48 pm »
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US emissions are at a low, and dropping, it's the developing nations that are reaching record highs.

We're still the worst nation per capita for our emissions. We really shouldn't place so much blame on the underdeveloped countries, because our current economic system makes it so much cheaper to use non renewable resources than to use renewable resources in their factories to produce cheap goods for highly developed countries such as the U.S., so the companies are forced to continue using non renewable energy in order to continue to profit.

The problem really lies in the developed countries exploiting the underdeveloped ones.
So...we're exploiting them by buying their products?

We're exploiting them by continuing an economic system that creates a circle of poverty among those citizens and damages their environment by creating tremendous amounts of waste and that necessitates the need to use non renewables and pay their employees very low wages in order to keep prices so low.
Do you have any evidence that third-world poverty has increased since we began trading with them?

I don't see how it's our fault that fossil fuels are cheaper than renewables...that would be true regardless of whether or not we traded with developing countries.
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« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2014, 11:25:01 pm »
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Step 1: Deny that the climate is warming.
Step 2: Say that the warming climate isn't because of humans.
Step 3: Say that just because the climate is warming because of humans doesn't mean we should do anything about it.
Step 4: Ask why no one did anything about global warming.
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2014, 10:16:20 am »
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Honestly, at this point, all we can do is invest in our own infrastructure and help developing nations develop reasonable and balanced plans. Climate change is going to happen, it is already happening, and now we just need to deal with it. We need to fight the new battle, not pretend we're still fighting the old battle which we already lost.

Speaking as the resident of a city who has had to spend billions fixing flood damage to houses and subways and such after Sandy, thanks a whole hell of a lot for the vote of confidence in our future.  Really appreciate it.
Why do you believe that Sandy was caused by climate change? Has there been any upward trend in hurricane activity in recent times?

Whether it was caused by climate change or not*, the destruction it wrought is but a preview of what we'll be in for regularly in a warming world of higher sea levels, more flooding, more storms, etc.

*Obviously you can't proximately pin any one storm on AGW- but if you pan back and take the proper statistical view, you can say that there will be more, and more harmful, storms. So yeah.  I'm not going to necessarily pin all of Sandy's destruction on global warming, but I can and will use it as a wake-up call.
What do you mean "the proper statistical view?" If you go back and look at the statistical record, is there are a correlation between rising sea levels and increased hurricane activity (I'm genuinely asking; I don't know if there has been)? Sea levels have been on the rise for over a century, so I'm sure there's some of data on this.

What I mean by "the proper statistical view" is to not just say "you can't prove that Hurricane X was specifically caused by a warming world, therefore warming isn't a problem!" when, over the course of, say, a couple decades or so, the damage caused by storms is higher in aggregate because they're more likely to form/stronger and more devastating to life and property when they do form on average.

Also, "correlation between rising sea levels and increased hurricane activity" isn't the right question to ask, either- one should be drawing the lines between increased global temperatures and rising sea levels; as well as increased global temperatures and storm damage, because that's where the actual causation is coming from.

Anyway, it's actually unsure whether we'll have more hurricanes in a warm world.  But, the damage that each of them do will be worse and worse, because a) warmer waters can lead to more intense hurricanes, and b) because rising sea levels will make the storm surges that much worse (in addition to inundating some particularly fragile areas even in the absence of storms, which was part of the point I was trying to make).  So even if we have the same number, they will be more devastating when they come.  And, just as obviously, hurricanes are not the only kind of extreme weather, and not even the only kind of extreme weather that causes damage primarily through flooding.

http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/fcons/fcons1.asp

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/RisingCost/rising_cost5.php
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Blue3
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« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2014, 12:03:28 am »
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Honestly, at this point, all we can do is invest in our own infrastructure and help developing nations develop reasonable and balanced plans. Climate change is going to happen, it is already happening, and now we just need to deal with it. We need to fight the new battle, not pretend we're still fighting the old battle which we already lost.

Speaking as the resident of a city who has had to spend billions fixing flood damage to houses and subways and such after Sandy, thanks a whole hell of a lot for the vote of confidence in our future.  Really appreciate it.

Disturbing stuff. We are at the point where we need to actually need to reclaim atmospheric carbon (but in a less moronic way that iron fertilisation).

US emissions are at a low, and dropping, it's the developing nations that are reaching record highs.

A broad trend, but not always true - they went up 2.9% last year as the article states.

Even if developing countries are producing more fossil fuels, that still shouldn't be used as an excuse for not doing anything about the problem (which a disturbing amount of people I speak to seem to believe).

Ooo, careful, pointing that out is gonna get you labeled a racist by some folks.  If you want to stop global warming, clearly you hate poor brown people and are trying to keep them down with your hipster elitism. Roll Eyes

Never mind, of course, that in the USA, minorities are more concerned about global warming, even when you control for partisanship, and of course the countries that are gonna get hit the worst are also the poorest:



Never mind all that.  Obviously caring about the climate must just be a luxury for rich white people. Roll Eyes

I'm saying we should be spending trillions on infrastructure now to prevent such damage in the future. No US policy is going to stop the third world from raising itself out of poverty, largely relying on fossil fuels (just like we did).
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Clarko95
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« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2014, 12:22:54 am »
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Why is Albania so vulnerable in mostly-green Europe? Something unique about the landscape/local climate?
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traininthedistance
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« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2014, 10:31:14 am »
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Why is Albania so vulnerable in mostly-green Europe? Something unique about the landscape/local climate?

Not entirely sure?  Presumably it's some combination of geography and poverty (as poorer countries are gonna have a harder time spending money to adapt).  I was a little surprised to see Netherlands at merely yellow, seeing as their lands are, well, nether, but I guess they're rich enough that it softens the blow.
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IDS Speaker Flo
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« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2014, 08:04:24 am »
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US emissions are at a low, and dropping, it's the developing nations that are reaching record highs.

We're still the worst nation per capita for our emissions. We really shouldn't place so much blame on the underdeveloped countries, because our current economic system makes it so much cheaper to use non renewable resources than to use renewable resources in their factories to produce cheap goods for highly developed countries such as the U.S., so the companies are forced to continue using non renewable energy in order to continue to profit.

The problem really lies in the developed countries exploiting the underdeveloped ones.
So...we're exploiting them by buying their products?

We're exploiting them by continuing an economic system that creates a circle of poverty among those citizens and damages their environment by creating tremendous amounts of waste and that necessitates the need to use non renewables and pay their employees very low wages in order to keep prices so low.
Do you have any evidence that third-world poverty has increased since we began trading with them?

I don't see how it's our fault that fossil fuels are cheaper than renewables...that would be true countrregardless of whether or not we traded with developing countries.

Obviously compared to our country they're paid significantly less than workers in our country, even counting in the cost of living there. I'm not saying it's our fault that fossil fuels is cheaper, but we do have a responsibility to help these companies develop new green technology that's affordable since we're really the reason this is going on.
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I see your point, and maybe we're debating over semantics, but the fact that about 1 million children are functionally homeless to me is a crisis.
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