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Author Topic: BREAKING: American forces bomb ISIS targets in Iraq  (Read 5819 times)
afleitch
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« Reply #175 on: August 20, 2014, 05:57:34 am »

While it's always been a tactic of Islamist terror; relatively comfortable monied terror heads getting poor and stupid people to do their dirty work for them, we now have people from the west, from the UK flying over to basically get to 'play' at being terrorists. It does not help, and I will be attacked for this, that many come from relatively comfortable families where the domestic culture essentially treats them as entitled little princes by virtue of their sex. No one ever questions them, tell them know or calls them out on their self interested stupidity. When this whole sorry mess is over and any of them live to see it, they will be crying to their parents to get back home.
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« Reply #176 on: August 20, 2014, 08:44:59 am »
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Yeah you have many people with chaotic lives hoping for redemption by fighting for God. Unfortunately, it's been a quite common thing through the history of religions. Needless to say, they are as deluded about the concept of God than the crusaders were a thousand years ago. There is not much to do about it. Well if you believe in God you can always try to pray for them.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 08:48:45 am by swl »Logged
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« Reply #177 on: August 20, 2014, 09:55:31 am »
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While it's always been a tactic of Islamist terror; relatively comfortable monied terror heads getting poor and stupid people to do their dirty work for them, we now have people from the west, from the UK flying over to basically get to 'play' at being terrorists. It does not help, and I will be attacked for this, that many come from relatively comfortable families where the domestic culture essentially treats them as entitled little princes by virtue of their sex. No one ever questions them, tell them know or calls them out on their self interested stupidity. When this whole sorry mess is over and any of them live to see it, they will be crying to their parents to get back home.

Actually, I've heard quite a few news stories (the latest one just today) about girls trying to go to Syria or Irak to fight. That's quite surprising indeed.
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« Reply #178 on: August 20, 2014, 10:16:52 am »
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Viewing the video of the beheading may be considered an act of terrorism in the UK.
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« Reply #179 on: August 20, 2014, 10:24:24 am »
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While it's always been a tactic of Islamist terror; relatively comfortable monied terror heads getting poor and stupid people to do their dirty work for them, we now have people from the west, from the UK flying over to basically get to 'play' at being terrorists. It does not help, and I will be attacked for this, that many come from relatively comfortable families where the domestic culture essentially treats them as entitled little princes by virtue of their sex. No one ever questions them, tell them know or calls them out on their self interested stupidity. When this whole sorry mess is over and any of them live to see it, they will be crying to their parents to get back home.

Actually, I've heard quite a few news stories (the latest one just today) about girls trying to go to Syria or Irak to fight. That's quite surprising indeed.

It's not too surprising when you remember the Spanish Civil War.
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« Reply #180 on: August 20, 2014, 07:29:41 pm »
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Mosul dam recaptured

Another Iraqi offensive to retake Tikrit stalled

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« Reply #181 on: August 22, 2014, 09:49:26 pm »
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I hope the CINC will take the air campaign into Syria. I'm not bloodthirsty but we really need to kill as many of these militants as we can while they are an organized force. There are way too many Westerners that I think this represents a clear and direct threat. Id say the US and allies also must cultivate local relationships so that we can properly close off escape routes.
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« Reply #182 on: August 23, 2014, 10:24:55 am »
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I hope the CINC will take the air campaign into Syria. I'm not bloodthirsty but we really need to kill as many of these militants as we can while they are an organized force. There are way too many Westerners that I think this represents a clear and direct threat. Id say the US and allies also must cultivate local relationships so that we can properly close off escape routes.

I agree. I've been as anti-war as anyone and have always believed the Iraq War was wrong. However, I see no way around avoiding involvement. I do not support putting American boots back on the ground. We, along with our allies, should be using our air superiority to maximum advantage. At the same, I'm hesitant with who we supply arms to, but I do believe the Kurds are the most trustworthy in the region with advanced weaponry. It is people such as them that must fight the ground war. There is no other alternative than the complete extermination of ISIS off the face of the Earth.
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« Reply #183 on: August 24, 2014, 09:17:29 am »
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It's good to support the kurds, but they don't really care of what happens far from Kurdistan, so they will secure their area, help a bit further is there is something in return for them, and that's all. It's not like they're going run after ISIS all over Iraq and Syria.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 09:25:17 am by swl »Logged
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« Reply #184 on: August 24, 2014, 04:22:18 pm »
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I didn't say that alone would be a cure-all for the situation in the region, just as a Western air campaign isn't going to work alone. It is of vital importance to establish a strong Kurdish front in that area, and they are among a very limited few I'm willing to trust in the Middle East with our advanced weaponry. The remainder of the ground war will have to be fought by those we cannot fully trust, including the Iraqi government. It also means we will be faced with aligning ourselves with enemies so that we are inevitably on the same side as Assad's Syria and Iran. As I stated above, I believe it is paramount that ISIS be exterminated. They are enemies of humanity itself and cannot be allowed to remain.

I have to say I'm actually getting tired of the increasing isolationist attitude of the anti-war crowd that I was once in total agreement with. I do not equate the Bush policy of preemptive intervention with one of internationalist cooperation. There is a difference between a bombing campaign and putting boots on the ground.
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« Reply #185 on: August 24, 2014, 04:31:53 pm »
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I agree. I've been as anti-war as anyone and have always believed the Iraq War was wrong. However, I see no way around avoiding involvement. I do not support putting American boots back on the ground. We, along with our allies, should be using our air superiority to maximum advantage. At the same, I'm hesitant with who we supply arms to, but I do believe the Kurds are the most trustworthy in the region with advanced weaponry. It is people such as them that must fight the ground war. There is no other alternative than the complete extermination of ISIS off the face of the Earth.
If it were really as easy as just dropping bombs until the bad guys went away our problems in the Middle East would've disappeared a long time ago. There are sadly many people in the Middle East with a passionate, murderous hatred of the US and it doesn't come from nowhere. In fact, it just keeps getting worse and worse as we keep meddling (invading Iraq, training and supplying "freedom fighters" in Syria, etc) and now things are more dangerous than ever. Kicking the hornets' nest with more bombing in a vain attempt to "exterminate" a well-funded decentralized terrorist group full of zealous ideological extremists will only breed more hatred and blowback in the long term. We've done enough damage as it is and every time we try to "help" things only end up worse and more dangerous.
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« Reply #186 on: August 24, 2014, 05:00:18 pm »
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If it were really as easy as just dropping bombs until the bad guys went away our problems in the Middle East would've disappeared a long time ago. There are sadly many people in the Middle East with a passionate, murderous hatred of the US and it doesn't come from nowhere. In fact, it just keeps getting worse and worse as we keep meddling (invading Iraq, training and supplying "freedom fighters" in Syria, etc) and now things are more dangerous than ever. Kicking the hornets' nest with more bombing in a vain attempt to "exterminate" a well-funded decentralized terrorist group full of zealous ideological extremists will only breed more hatred and blowback in the long term. We've done enough damage as it is and every time we try to "help" things only end up worse and more dangerous.

Once again, I will state that I do not believe a bombing campaign alone will solve this issue. I for one will not stand by as our civilians are murdered in cold blood and many others are killed solely for the crime of not belonging to the proper religious sect (or whatever other whim they decide to slaughter civilians). ISIS is a monstrous genocidal organization that would kill millions if given the chance. They have no allies, let alone ones in the region. On this, Western countries are in almost full agreement with Iran, Iraq, and Assad's Syria. This isn't just America deciding to unilaterally intervene in the Middle East. They are killing more Muslims than anyone else, not to mention the pure terror they are inflicting on the general population. If you think that sort of action should continue without response, we are in two completely different worlds.
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No one is born hating another person because of the colour of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite. - Nelson Mandela
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« Reply #187 on: August 27, 2014, 09:42:20 pm »
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Bill Kristol: What's the harm in bombing and seeing what happens?
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« Reply #188 on: August 28, 2014, 09:01:02 am »
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"We have no clue about what to do, so let's drop a few bombs randomly and think after." I always wonder how a guy like that somehow manages to get responsibilities.
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« Reply #189 on: August 28, 2014, 11:50:26 am »
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I agree. I've been as anti-war as anyone and have always believed the Iraq War was wrong. However, I see no way around avoiding involvement. I do not support putting American boots back on the ground. We, along with our allies, should be using our air superiority to maximum advantage. At the same, I'm hesitant with who we supply arms to, but I do believe the Kurds are the most trustworthy in the region with advanced weaponry. It is people such as them that must fight the ground war. There is no other alternative than the complete extermination of ISIS off the face of the Earth.
If it were really as easy as just dropping bombs until the bad guys went away our problems in the Middle East would've disappeared a long time ago. There are sadly many people in the Middle East with a passionate, murderous hatred of the US and it doesn't come from nowhere. In fact, it just keeps getting worse and worse as we keep meddling (invading Iraq, training and supplying "freedom fighters" in Syria, etc) and now things are more dangerous than ever. Kicking the hornets' nest with more bombing in a vain attempt to "exterminate" a well-funded decentralized terrorist group full of zealous ideological extremists will only breed more hatred and blowback in the long term. We've done enough damage as it is and every time we try to "help" things only end up worse and more dangerous.

Don't the Syrians and Iraqis know that bombs don't kill people?  People kill people!
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 11:51:57 am by The Roose is Loose »Logged

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« Reply #190 on: August 28, 2014, 12:04:57 pm »
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I agree. I've been as anti-war as anyone and have always believed the Iraq War was wrong. However, I see no way around avoiding involvement. I do not support putting American boots back on the ground. We, along with our allies, should be using our air superiority to maximum advantage. At the same, I'm hesitant with who we supply arms to, but I do believe the Kurds are the most trustworthy in the region with advanced weaponry. It is people such as them that must fight the ground war. There is no other alternative than the complete extermination of ISIS off the face of the Earth.
If it were really as easy as just dropping bombs until the bad guys went away our problems in the Middle East would've disappeared a long time ago. There are sadly many people in the Middle East with a passionate, murderous hatred of the US and it doesn't come from nowhere. In fact, it just keeps getting worse and worse as we keep meddling (invading Iraq, training and supplying "freedom fighters" in Syria, etc) and now things are more dangerous than ever. Kicking the hornets' nest with more bombing in a vain attempt to "exterminate" a well-funded decentralized terrorist group full of zealous ideological extremists will only breed more hatred and blowback in the long term. We've done enough damage as it is and every time we try to "help" things only end up worse and more dangerous.

Don't the Syrians and Iraqis know that bombs don't kill people?  People kill people!
What point are you trying to make?
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« Reply #191 on: August 28, 2014, 12:16:31 pm »
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I agree. I've been as anti-war as anyone and have always believed the Iraq War was wrong. However, I see no way around avoiding involvement. I do not support putting American boots back on the ground. We, along with our allies, should be using our air superiority to maximum advantage. At the same, I'm hesitant with who we supply arms to, but I do believe the Kurds are the most trustworthy in the region with advanced weaponry. It is people such as them that must fight the ground war. There is no other alternative than the complete extermination of ISIS off the face of the Earth.
If it were really as easy as just dropping bombs until the bad guys went away our problems in the Middle East would've disappeared a long time ago. There are sadly many people in the Middle East with a passionate, murderous hatred of the US and it doesn't come from nowhere. In fact, it just keeps getting worse and worse as we keep meddling (invading Iraq, training and supplying "freedom fighters" in Syria, etc) and now things are more dangerous than ever. Kicking the hornets' nest with more bombing in a vain attempt to "exterminate" a well-funded decentralized terrorist group full of zealous ideological extremists will only breed more hatred and blowback in the long term. We've done enough damage as it is and every time we try to "help" things only end up worse and more dangerous.

Don't the Syrians and Iraqis know that bombs don't kill people?  People kill people!
What point are you trying to make?

Just that the "guns don't kill people, people kill people thing" is idiotic if you try to apply it in pretty much any context, yet for some reason many people act like it isn't a self-evidently absurd argument in the context of debates about gun control.
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