Israel general discussion

[Cubby]

The silence from red Avatars about this morning's Terrorist Attack is deafening. Still glad you're defending those scumbags?

[Zinneke]

The silence from red Avatars about this morning's Terrorist Attack is deafening. Still glad you're defending those scumbags?

Post quotes of people defending Palestinian terrorists so we can judge for ourselves.

Anyway, I'm wondering if its ever possible Netenyahu ever re-allies with the centre again? Has he burned too many bridges? What about Likud as a whole?

Also, if Trump says he'll move the embassy to Jerusalem in exchange for a sever decrease in American financial aid, how does this current Israeli administration respond?

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

If Obama and the Palestinians' actual goal was to create a far-right-wing Israel that would never return to the table again and would rule through escalating military force, they could not have planned this month any better.

[DavidB.]

These kinds of attacks are mostly one person deciding to act on his own, sometimes he's encouraged or aided by an organization like Hamas or ISIS, but most of the times he acts independantly while claiming to belong to some organization. This time it appears to be ISIS, which is not related to any Palestinian leadership.

Sure, but at the same time attacks like these are far too much celebrated in Palestinian society, including by Palestinian political leaders. The perpetrators are widely perceived as heroes and receive money from the PA if they survive.

[Hnv1]

Haaretz reveals the planned deal between Moses and Netanyahu: Moses will convert the powerful Yediot group to support Bibi while Bibi would have promoted a ban on free newspapers (and his 250 million $ gift from Sheldon). There is undoubtedly all elements of corruption charges in this case (including false testimony in 2 other court cases and a breach of funding laws).
I can't see him avoiding indictment here, even if his lackey Mendelblit will try to shut the case down a court writ will force him to place charges.

By reports even Netanyahu was shocked when he found out police had records of that conversation. I hope both he and Moses get jail time, I can't think of people I hate more in our political system (bar for Lapid).

[Famous Mortimer]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-08/jerusalem-truck-attack/8168824

This is total crap. I cannot see what the Palestinians could be possibly hoping to achieve.

If anything, it just sets their cause back.

I mean, I agree with you but why are you acting surprised? Are you too young to remember the Second Intafada? Palestinians used to blow up Israeli civilians multiple times a week (not exaggerating) in the early 2000s. They would have undoubtedly kept doing so until this very day if not for Israel building The Wall.

[Comrade Funk]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-08/jerusalem-truck-attack/8168824

This is total crap. I cannot see what the Palestinians could be possibly hoping to achieve.

If anything, it just sets their cause back.

Religious nationalism is a dirty combination. Deranges the mind.

[DavidB.]

The Knesset today voted 51-17 in favor of banning the far left NGO Breaking the Silence from schools, with Meretz and the Joint List opposing the proposal.

[danny]

The Knesset today voted 51-17 in favor of banning the far left NGO Breaking the Silence from schools, with Meretz and the Joint List opposing the proposal.

Meretz and ZU, I assume the Joint List would be against, but no one from the party was present.

[DavidB.]

The Knesset today voted 51-17 in favor of banning the far left NGO Breaking the Silence from schools, with Meretz and the Joint List opposing the proposal.

Meretz and ZU, I assume the Joint List would be against, but no one from the party was present.

I stand corrected. Had hoped some people in ZU would have seen the light, but too optimistic.

[Intell]

The Knesset today voted 51-17 in favor of banning the far left NGO Breaking the Silence from schools, with Meretz and the Joint List opposing the proposal.

Meretz and ZU, I assume the Joint List would be against, but no one from the party was present.

I stand corrected. Had hoped some people in ZU would have seen the light, but too optimistic.

Soldiers can't have freedom of speech, and children be expose and learn different viewpoints it seems.

[DavidB.]

Soldiers shouldn't speak against the state and treason shouldn't be allowed in schools (or anywhere, for that matter, but that's going to come soon too), that's correct.

In other news, the arch-progressive High Court has given yet more proof (not that it was needed) why its powers should be curbed by giving the state 30 days to show why women can't read the Torah in prayer services at the Kotel. High time to place the rabbis above the High Court on matters involving Judaism.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Soldiers shouldn't speak against the state and treason shouldn't be allowed in schools (or anywhere, for that matter, but that's going to come soon too), that's correct.

In other news, the arch-progressive High Court has given yet more proof (not that it was needed) why its powers should be curbed by giving the state 30 days to show why women can't read the Torah in prayer services at the Kotel. High time to place the rabbis above the High Court on matters involving Judaism.

Why? Would you be fine with the Supreme Court, or that of Netherlands, getting its powers curbed? This is a direct attack on Israeli democracy.
Also, I don't see the problem with women reading Torah. They're humans too, aren't they? Whether the Orthodox Establishment likes it or no, people are getting tired of them. They're making many in Israel (including me) feel hostility to the Jewish religion, and that's a crime. The Rabbinate's iron grip over everything from marriage to burial has to end, and Israel has to recognize the Reformist and Conservative Jews. It's mind-boggling that the Jewish State is the only one not recognizing them, and it's also a direct insult against the American Jews who're so invaluable to Israel.

[DavidB.]

Why? Would you be fine with the Supreme Court, or that of Netherlands, getting its powers curbed?

Fortunately we are one of the few countries that don't do constitutional review and the like, and we don't have a Supreme Court. If we had one, I'd absolutely be fine with curbing its powers as much as possible, as I want judges' power to be limited. In a democracy it is elected officials who should decide on the laws and set the standards, not activist judges.

This is a direct attack on Israeli democracy.

On the contrary. Left-wing judicial activism in Israel is an attack on Israeli democracy.

Also, I don't see the problem with women reading Torah. They're humans too, aren't they?

Yes, but they don't get to do things that are only for men, just as men are not going to get to light the shabbat candles. This is pretty basic stuff. Besides, WoW aren't even really religious, they're just disingenuous feminist trolls.

Whether the Orthodox Establishment likes it or no, people are getting tired of them.

Sometimes being right doesn't make you popular. (Being corrupt doesn't help their case either, to be fair.) That said, orthodoxy is only going to become more popular given demographic trends.

They're making many in Israel (including me) feel hostility to the Jewish religion, and that's a crime.

How?

The Rabbinate's iron grip over everything from marriage to burial has to end, and Israel has to recognize the Reformist and Conservative Jews. It's mind-boggling that the Jewish State is the only one not recognizing them, and it's also a direct insult against the American Jews who're so invaluable to Israel.

The American Jews that are invaluable to Israel are either not Conservative or Reform, or they are but they respect Israel's character as a real Jewish state. Reform and Conservative Jews are legitimate Jews but their type of Judaism is theologically and halachically illegitimate and fake, and a real Jewish state should not recognize them. Fortunately that's unlikely to happen (though we should remain careful, because the Likud are opportunistic enough to do it).

[Hnv1]

The Knesset today voted 51-17 in favor of banning the far left NGO Breaking the Silence from schools, with Meretz and the Joint List opposing the proposal.

The Joint List are on strike as a protest to some houses being demolished.

The rule actually forbids organization that support the trial of Israeli's abroad to appear in schools. So, A. it will not apply to Breaking the Silence as this is not their agenda and supposing otherwise will make the state action ultra vires. B. It is a general norm created with individual specific goals, that is problematic as to the rule-of-aw doctrine. As I know our constitutional law very well, this will either be voided or restricted from actually applying.

Now for real politics. My sources in ZU are saying they like Meretz and YA are already allocating resources for a possible election by the end of the year.

[dead0man]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-08/jerusalem-truck-attack/8168824

This is total crap. I cannot see what the Palestinians could be possibly hoping to achieve.

If anything, it just sets their cause back.

It's not 'the Palestinans'. Certainly not Mahmoud Abbas, as you said, he doesn't have anything to achieve. These kinds of attacks are mostly one person deciding to act on his own, sometimes he's encouraged or aided by an organization like Hamas or ISIS, but most of the times he acts independantly while claiming to belong to some organization. This time it appears to be ISIS, which is not related to any Palestinian leadership.

Yeah, 'cause Abbas and Fatah would NEVER encourage terrorism   They're moderates!

Sarcasm aside, these destroyers of peace are not embarrassments to their families, they are heroes to them.   They see in these "martyrs" heroes who have "watered the pure earth of Palestine with their blood" (actual quote by Abbas).  Cut this "one person deciding to act" bull sh**t.  It's one person after one person after one person all encouraged from birth by their family, their culture and their govt that people that do these horrible acts are people to be admired and remembered.  That they'll will be rewarded in the after life and that their families will be rewarded for the "sacrifice" too.  It's all very disgusting.

Abbas thinks moving the US embassy to Jerusalem is a road block to peace?  Does he know what else is a road block to peace?  Driving over people waiting for the bus.  You know what's an even bigger road block to peace?  Encouraging more of the same.  There will never be peace until the culture there gets fixed.  Israel can't change it anymore than I can.

[Hnv1]

MK itzik Schmoli endorses Peretz in the Labour leadership race

[America Needs R'hllor]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-08/jerusalem-truck-attack/8168824

This is total crap. I cannot see what the Palestinians could be possibly hoping to achieve.

If anything, it just sets their cause back.

It's not 'the Palestinans'. Certainly not Mahmoud Abbas, as you said, he doesn't have anything to achieve. These kinds of attacks are mostly one person deciding to act on his own, sometimes he's encouraged or aided by an organization like Hamas or ISIS, but most of the times he acts independantly while claiming to belong to some organization. This time it appears to be ISIS, which is not related to any Palestinian leadership.

Yeah, 'cause Abbas and Fatah would NEVER encourage terrorism   They're moderates!

Sarcasm aside, these destroyers of peace are not embarrassments to their families, they are heroes to them.   They see in these "martyrs" heroes who have "watered the pure earth of Palestine with their blood" (actual quote by Abbas).  Cut this "one person deciding to act" bull sh**t.  It's one person after one person after one person all encouraged from birth by their family, their culture and their govt that people that do these horrible acts are people to be admired and remembered.  That they'll will be rewarded in the after life and that their families will be rewarded for the "sacrifice" too.  It's all very disgusting.

Abbas thinks moving the US embassy to Jerusalem is a road block to peace?  Does he know what else is a road block to peace?  Driving over people waiting for the bus.  You know what's an even bigger road block to peace?  Encouraging more of the same.  There will never be peace until the culture there gets fixed.  Israel can't change it anymore than I can.

I was only speaking about the current, specific attack.

MK itzik Schmoli endorses Peretz in the Labour leadership race

Eh. Peretz already failed many times, why would he be any more electable now? Besides, he's considered a bad Minister of Defence, and the people's existential fear was a major reason for Netanyahu's victory last time.

By the way, small, random detail- the cannabis legislation party, Ale Yarok, announced on their Facebook page that they're supporting Netanyahu and don't want him to be indicted, because the current government is making some progress on cannabis and they don't want Lapid. I guess they've officially given up any chance  to get seats.

[SATW]

Haaretz reveals the planned deal between Moses and Netanyahu: Moses will convert the powerful Yediot group to support Bibi while Bibi would have promoted a ban on free newspapers (and his 250 million $ gift from Sheldon). There is undoubtedly all elements of corruption charges in this case (including false testimony in 2 other court cases and a breach of funding laws).
I can't see him avoiding indictment here, even if his lackey Mendelblit will try to shut the case down a court writ will force him to place charges.

By reports even Netanyahu was shocked when he found out police had records of that conversation. I hope both he and Moses get jail time, I can't think of people I hate more in our political system (bar for Lapid).

Is this tape actually real? or, like everything else the Israeli media spews, is it fake? If it is real, why hasn't it been released yet?

[Hnv1]

Haaretz reveals the planned deal between Moses and Netanyahu: Moses will convert the powerful Yediot group to support Bibi while Bibi would have promoted a ban on free newspapers (and his 250 million $ gift from Sheldon). There is undoubtedly all elements of corruption charges in this case (including false testimony in 2 other court cases and a breach of funding laws).
I can't see him avoiding indictment here, even if his lackey Mendelblit will try to shut the case down a court writ will force him to place charges.

By reports even Netanyahu was shocked when he found out police had records of that conversation. I hope both he and Moses get jail time, I can't think of people I hate more in our political system (bar for Lapid).

Is this tape actually real? or, like everything else the Israeli media spews, is it fake? If it is real, why hasn't it been released yet?

I suspect there are elements of it still under investigation and people who need to testify. So we're getting little leaks every day and they're quite shocking.

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His defence image was rehabilitated slightly with Iron Dome, anyway the identity politics idiots think he can win over voters from the right.

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Since 2009 the driving force behind them is the New Liberal Movement whose most members are now Likud members.

[Intell]

In regards to Israel, there is, at least from my opinion a great youtuber who asks questions about the Israel-Palestine issues in Israel and Palestine and around the world. Been hooked on his videos.

https://www.youtube.com/user/coreygilshuster

[Hnv1]

The coming indictment(s?) are looming above the political sphere, and most major players prepare and estimate a GE by next winter.

Maariv Poll from today:
Do you think the allegations against Bibi are sound?
57% - yes
28% - no
15% - I don't know
(same % view a snap election to save his skin as unworthy\worthy\don't know)

Who's best fitting to be PM afterwards?
21% Lapid
12% Bennet
7% - Sa'ar
6% Ya'alon
others

Who should lead Likud (general public):
Sa'ar - 18%
Ya'alon - 10%
Erdan - 10%
Kachlon - 9%
others

Who should lead Likud (Likud voters):
Erdan up front (couldn't find the percentage)
Sa'ar (likewise)
Katz - 10%
Regev - 10%
Kachlon - 7%
Steinitz - 6%

Mock elections status quo ante:
YA - 26
Likud - 23
JH - 13
JAL - 13
ZU - 9
UTJ - 8
Liberman - 7
Shas - 7
Meretz - 7
Kachlon - 7

some counterfactuals: Ashkenazi with Lapid doesn't change much, Ya'alon joining Lapid boosts him to 30, Ya'alon by himself polls 8 (but mainly from the left).

Labour lead by Ashkenazi:
Likud - 24
YA - 22
Labour - 15
JH - 11
JAL - 13
UTJ - 8
Liberman - 8
Meretz - 6
Kachlon - 6

Likud led by Bennet:
Likud - 29
YA - 27
JAL - 13
ZU - 9
UTJ - 8
Liberman - 7
Shas - 7
Meretz - 7
Kachlon - 7
JH - 6

Labour politics! so the elections to be Labour's General Secretary (with a promised position as 7th on the ballot, considering Labour's dismal state, made it a very appealing position) were held yesterday. The winner lacked 6 votes for the 40% so we'll have a second round next week. Results as I gathered them:
Yaya Fink 39.61% (Yechimovic's former henchman)
Eran Hermoni - 32.38% (Herzog and other establishment figures guy)
MK Michal Biran - 18.33% (former Yechimovic majordomo)
Richard Peres - 9.16% (some random guy)
Aby Benjamin - 0.something% (an outsider)

Fink and Hermoni are going to make it to the next round, I guess Fink is going to clinch it as the Biran voters will sway towards him.

 

[Ronnie]

After the 2015 election, I'm skeptical of any poll that comes out.  If Likud is down, they'll just whip their base into a frenzy with rhetoric of fear and paranoia and loathing and despair in the waning hours of the election, and manage to pull through.

Israel has a permanent right wing majority, and people just need to accept that.

[DavidB.]

Netanyahu has asked Bayit Yehudi leader Naftali Bennett not to put to the vote his bill on the annexation of Maale Adumim, a suburb/"settlement" to the east of Jerusalem. The vote was scheduled to take place in a ministerial panel on Sunday. According to Haaretz, the Trump team has asked Netanyahu to wait with any unilateral steps before the first Trump-Netanyahu meeting in early February.

[Hnv1]

Labour internal politics*:
Ehud Barak who in the last year started tweeting frantically against Bibi whilst claiming he has no political intentions (what no one believes), will be addressing some Labour internal forum next week (so I've heard) called 'the main stream'. Mainly old Labourites with a military fetish yet still an interesting twist.
Avi Gabbay who recently joined announced his intentions to run for leadership, he's also a very good friend of Ashkenazi, not quite sure what's happening there but Herzog could willingly give up the leadership with some dignifying bargain.
Amir Peretz, another heir presumptive, allegedly had 10K members join since he declared his intention to run for leadership.
my gut instinct tells me most leadership candidates will boot the eternal rent boy Livni as soon as they are elected....

*Outsiders probably wouldn't understand the fascination with Labour politics, it's probably a relic every leftist hold from the days Labour internal politics=Israeli national politics.

Likud news:
Kachlon is set fully prepared to bounce into Likud, his top ministers seem to be starting their primary season there already.
Sa'ar is also alert

Meretz news:
The field of candidates doesn't look to change as each candidate has his own base in the party convention. The Galon-Gilon battle is slowly but steadily killing the party from the inside, every small appointment and procedure becomes a battle in fashion of trots politics. I hope Peretz wins and Gilon could bugger off to be socialist there.

The right wingers are so cowardly, none of them has the guts to pull the trigger on annexation (and have their name on an intifada) so they want good old uncle Trump to give them a vox dei and invite them to annex territories. I think they are going to be dully disappointed, Trump might not mind to do but he's not going to instruct them to do so.