Israel general discussion

[DavidB.]

Anyway, my bet is on Nissan "porno mustache" Slomiansky.

Forget what I said earlier, because this is currently the safest guess, you're right: rumor has it that it's him. It's also not Ben Dahan, who also gave an interview defending the guy.

[Hnv1]

In other news the US and our "special relationship" screw us yet again. The cabinet decided to purchase 17 more F-35 AKA piece of flying garbage and one of the biggest white elephants of military history instead of buying the new F-15 who show much better stats (and can actually fly an operational mission).

But it's "stealth"!! so all the tabloid could have headlines explaining how high tech it is, never mind it can carry a load of 2 tonnes on low signature mode and only to short ranges.

I remember back in the days of my military service how the US ed us over several times on all sort of procurement deals, the joys of being a proxy state.  

[DavidB.]

In other news the US and our "special relationship" screw us yet again. The cabinet decided to purchase 17 more F-35 AKA piece of flying garbage and one of the biggest white elephants of military history instead of buying the new F-15 who show much better stats (and can actually fly an operational mission).

But it's "stealth"!! so all the tabloid could have headlines explaining how high tech it is, never mind it can carry a load of 2 tonnes on low signature mode and only to short ranges.

I remember back in the days of my military service how the US ed us over several times on all sort of procurement deals, the joys of being a proxy state.  

It's all worth it, because you will soon have Jared Kushner come over to provide you with hot takes on making peace!

But yeah, another thing we agree on.

[Hnv1]

Channel 10 poll:
Likud - 24
YA - 24
JAL - 13
JH - 11
ZU - 10 (lol)
Liberman's crime family - 9
Meretz - 7
Shas -7
UTJ - 7
Kulanu - 7

Lapid could form a weird-narrow-unstable coalition with ZU JH Liberman and Kulano (61), Bennet would much rather brand himself as the leader of the right from within (and kill off Bibi) but his base would rather sit with Bibi (and Tkuma might breakaway in such scenario)

[DavidB.]

You know what? That doesn't even sound too bad. I'd take it (although Lapid as PM, ehhhh... *throws up in mouth* can't we have Oren?). Not that it will ever happen.

[dead0man]

In other news the US and our "special relationship" screw us yet again. The cabinet decided to purchase 17 more F-35 AKA piece of flying garbage and one of the biggest white elephants of military history instead of buying the new F-15 who show much better stats (and can actually fly an operational mission).

But it's "stealth"!! so all the tabloid could have headlines explaining how high tech it is, never mind it can carry a load of 2 tonnes on low signature mode and only to short ranges.

I remember back in the days of my military service how the US ed us over several times on all sort of procurement deals, the joys of being a proxy state. 

We're not exactly happy about the F35 over here either.  Eventually it will be a decent bird, but they shouldn't have forced one airframe to do three different things.

[DavidB.]

In other news the US and our "special relationship" screw us yet again. The cabinet decided to purchase 17 more F-35 AKA piece of flying garbage and one of the biggest white elephants of military history instead of buying the new F-15 who show much better stats (and can actually fly an operational mission).

But it's "stealth"!! so all the tabloid could have headlines explaining how high tech it is, never mind it can carry a load of 2 tonnes on low signature mode and only to short ranges.

I remember back in the days of my military service how the US ed us over several times on all sort of procurement deals, the joys of being a proxy state. 

We're not exactly happy about the F35 over here either.  Eventually it will be a decent bird, but they shouldn't have forced one airframe to do three different things.

The complaints are the same in the Netherlands, by the way.

[MaxQue]

In other news the US and our "special relationship" screw us yet again. The cabinet decided to purchase 17 more F-35 AKA piece of flying garbage and one of the biggest white elephants of military history instead of buying the new F-15 who show much better stats (and can actually fly an operational mission).

But it's "stealth"!! so all the tabloid could have headlines explaining how high tech it is, never mind it can carry a load of 2 tonnes on low signature mode and only to short ranges.

I remember back in the days of my military service how the US ed us over several times on all sort of procurement deals, the joys of being a proxy state. 

We're not exactly happy about the F35 over here either.  Eventually it will be a decent bird, but they shouldn't have forced one airframe to do three different things.

The complaints are the same in the Netherlands, by the way.

In Canada, new government dropped the F35 orders and now wants to buy used SuperHornets, for some reason.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Another story of sexual misconduct by a religious Bayit Yehudi MK is going to break. It's one of the six sitting religious MKs and if it were Bennet the story would have blown up already. It's also not Smotrich: in an interview he defended this anonymous person, which will soon not be anonymous anymore. That leaves four: Ben Dahan, Slomiansky, Yogev and Ariel. My bets are on Ariel, because it makes sense for Smotrich (also Tekuma) to defend him. In any case, this would be the second BY MK in two years, after Yinon Magal, to have engaged in sexual misconduct against women. Absurd.

Surely this is affecting their poll numbers?

No way. Most people who support BY will either not care, or say that the investigation is rigged against them, or complain about feminism. And the few people who will care, won't be swayed by it and will forget it once election day comes. The only thing of the sort that can have real effect is allegations against Bennet.

In other news, after the murder of a young girl at the Gay Parade in Jerusalem, in 2014, Bennet promised to increase funding for lgbt youth organizations. Now it was revealed that not only will he break his promise, he will actually decrease funding.

[Hnv1]

There's a bundle of bills on the table: expropriation of west banks lands, new tax on owners of several flats, securing the orthodoxy's hold on the west wall, and the closing of the new public media corporation. Each coalition party wants one but not some of the others. We have a serious prisoner dilemma here...it will be interesting to see how this unfolds. 

Tel Aviv and it's ugly neighbor to the south Bat Yam are heading for a merger, this will have interesting demographic results (I suspect old Bat Yam residents will be priced out and the south Tel Aviv hipsters will find new hubs there). Tel Aviv declared goal is to bring all municipal authorities in the area under one jurisdiction, I am all for as it will force decentralization of power from Jerusalem. 

This is how the two voted in 2015:

Tel Aviv (263,205 voters):
ZU 34.27%
Likud 18.19%
Meretz 13.03%
YA 11.57%
Kulanu 6.88%
Shas 3.90%
JH 3.36%
JAL 3.25%
Liberman 2.08% (LOL)
Yachad  1.11%
UTJ 1.01%

Bat Yam (69,206 voters):
Likud 33.36%
ZU 14.58%
Liberman 12.88%
Kulano 11.23%
YA 9.30%
Shas 6.88%
JH 5.15%
Yachad 2.42%
Meretz 1.42%
UTJ 1.03%
JAL 0.18%

As you can see, very different cities

[America Needs R'hllor]

Wouldn't it endanger the left's hold on the mayorship of Tel Aviv, though, thus turning the last big bastion of the Israeli left to the right?

[Hnv1]

Wouldn't it endanger the left's hold on the mayorship of Tel Aviv, though, thus turning the last big bastion of the Israeli left to the right?

Basically no, last two elections were of a Labour mayor against someone to his left (communist Hanin in 08 who got 30%, and Horowitz of Meretz in 13 who got 39%). If a merger happens Tel Aviv will just unite behind a single leftist

[DavidB.]

How is this in the interest of Bat Yam? Why don't they merge with more similar Holon instead?

[Hnv1]

How is this in the interest of Bat Yam? Why don't they merge with more similar Holon instead?

Well they don't want it. But they are bankrupt and poorly ran so the government can just force it down. Bat Yam is closer to Tel Aviv and could benefit from their money. Holon isn't doing too great either, they only prospering there is Rishon and that because they had a huge land mass so they could attract lots of business to move there and pay let property tax than Tel Aviv.

[America Needs R'hllor]

How is this in the interest of Bat Yam? Why don't they merge with more similar Holon instead?

Well they don't want it. But they are bankrupt and poorly ran so the government can just force it down. Bat Yam is closer to Tel Aviv and could benefit from their money. Holon isn't doing too great either, they only prospering there is Rishon and that because they had a huge land mass so they could attract lots of business to move there and pay let property tax than Tel Aviv.

Yeah. In any case, the municipal authorities in Israel are just absolutely corrupt and horribly ran, maybe with the exception of the big ones, Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, who are under more scrunity, and a few others (like Beer Sheva). Someone needs to shake this whole thing up.

[Hnv1]

How is this in the interest of Bat Yam? Why don't they merge with more similar Holon instead?

Well they don't want it. But they are bankrupt and poorly ran so the government can just force it down. Bat Yam is closer to Tel Aviv and could benefit from their money. Holon isn't doing too great either, they only prospering there is Rishon and that because they had a huge land mass so they could attract lots of business to move there and pay let property tax than Tel Aviv.

Yeah. In any case, the municipal authorities in Israel are just absolutely corrupt and horribly ran, maybe with the exception of the big ones, Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, who are under more scrunity, and a few others (like Beer Sheva). Someone needs to shake this whole thing up.

Jerusalem is up there with the worst, it just gets load of money from the government so people don't notice how dysfunctional the city is (and its pretensions mayor).

Overall part for Tel Aviv, Haifa, Beer Sheva, and some of the Sharon cities they are all terribly ran\corrupt\in huge deficits.

I think an overall reform scrapping lots of municipal authorities and uniting them in larger ones with more autonomy will them all well (this must be augmented by a move to redistribute state lands between cities and smaller rural councils)

[Jesus save us]

I have created a Palestine general discussion thread.

[DavidB.]

I think an overall reform scrapping lots of municipal authorities and uniting them in larger ones with more autonomy will them all well (this must be augmented by a move to redistribute state lands between cities and smaller rural councils)

If they're really almost all as corrupt as you say, wouldn't giving them more autonomy be the least sensible thing to do?

[America Needs R'hllor]

How is this in the interest of Bat Yam? Why don't they merge with more similar Holon instead?

Well they don't want it. But they are bankrupt and poorly ran so the government can just force it down. Bat Yam is closer to Tel Aviv and could benefit from their money. Holon isn't doing too great either, they only prospering there is Rishon and that because they had a huge land mass so they could attract lots of business to move there and pay let property tax than Tel Aviv.

Yeah. In any case, the municipal authorities in Israel are just absolutely corrupt and horribly ran, maybe with the exception of the big ones, Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, who are under more scrunity, and a few others (like Beer Sheva). Someone needs to shake this whole thing up.

Jerusalem is up there with the worst, it just gets load of money from the government so people don't notice how dysfunctional the city is (and its pretensions mayor).

Overall part for Tel Aviv, Haifa, Beer Sheva, and some of the Sharon cities they are all terribly ran\corrupt\in huge deficits.

I think an overall reform scrapping lots of municipal authorities and uniting them in larger ones with more autonomy will them all well (this must be augmented by a move to redistribute state lands between cities and smaller rural councils)

But since this kind of reform would be almost impossible to do without broad bipartisan support and, more importantly, cooperation from municipal authorities, I think a few smaller steps to combat the corruption are needed. Namely, term limits for mayors (seriously, my city's mayor has been in office since 1976, and that's before the city became a city). Another measure could be scrapping local parties and returning to the tradition of major parties running their own candidates in municipal elections. I'm not basing it or any facts, but it seems to me like regional parties allow the mayors to have more control, appoint family members and friends etc, while major parties have interest in not being percieved as corrupt, thus adding a bit more scrunity.

[Hnv1]

How is this in the interest of Bat Yam? Why don't they merge with more similar Holon instead?

Well they don't want it. But they are bankrupt and poorly ran so the government can just force it down. Bat Yam is closer to Tel Aviv and could benefit from their money. Holon isn't doing too great either, they only prospering there is Rishon and that because they had a huge land mass so they could attract lots of business to move there and pay let property tax than Tel Aviv.

Yeah. In any case, the municipal authorities in Israel are just absolutely corrupt and horribly ran, maybe with the exception of the big ones, Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, who are under more scrunity, and a few others (like Beer Sheva). Someone needs to shake this whole thing up.

Jerusalem is up there with the worst, it just gets load of money from the government so people don't notice how dysfunctional the city is (and its pretensions mayor).

Overall part for Tel Aviv, Haifa, Beer Sheva, and some of the Sharon cities they are all terribly ran\corrupt\in huge deficits.

I think an overall reform scrapping lots of municipal authorities and uniting them in larger ones with more autonomy will them all well (this must be augmented by a move to redistribute state lands between cities and smaller rural councils)

But since this kind of reform would be almost impossible to do without broad bipartisan support and, more importantly, cooperation from municipal authorities, I think a few smaller steps to combat the corruption are needed. Namely, term limits for mayors (seriously, my city's mayor has been in office since 1976, and that's before the city became a city). Another measure could be scrapping local parties and returning to the tradition of major parties running their own candidates in municipal elections. I'm not basing it or any facts, but it seems to me like regional parties allow the mayors to have more control, appoint family members and friends etc, while major parties have interest in not being percieved as corrupt, thus adding a bit more scrunity.

You can't scrap local parties it's against freedom of association plus a lot of people don't like national party lists running on municipal level (like it or not major parties are not a good brand on the local level). Tenure cap for mayors is a step in the right direction.

There is a bipartisan support at the national level for change but local dictators usually hold a lot of sway in Likud\Labour. This needs to come from the government by forcing their hands and refusing to pay their deficits

[America Needs R'hllor]

How is this in the interest of Bat Yam? Why don't they merge with more similar Holon instead?

Well they don't want it. But they are bankrupt and poorly ran so the government can just force it down. Bat Yam is closer to Tel Aviv and could benefit from their money. Holon isn't doing too great either, they only prospering there is Rishon and that because they had a huge land mass so they could attract lots of business to move there and pay let property tax than Tel Aviv.

Yeah. In any case, the municipal authorities in Israel are just absolutely corrupt and horribly ran, maybe with the exception of the big ones, Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, who are under more scrunity, and a few others (like Beer Sheva). Someone needs to shake this whole thing up.

Jerusalem is up there with the worst, it just gets load of money from the government so people don't notice how dysfunctional the city is (and its pretensions mayor).

Overall part for Tel Aviv, Haifa, Beer Sheva, and some of the Sharon cities they are all terribly ran\corrupt\in huge deficits.

I think an overall reform scrapping lots of municipal authorities and uniting them in larger ones with more autonomy will them all well (this must be augmented by a move to redistribute state lands between cities and smaller rural councils)

But since this kind of reform would be almost impossible to do without broad bipartisan support and, more importantly, cooperation from municipal authorities, I think a few smaller steps to combat the corruption are needed. Namely, term limits for mayors (seriously, my city's mayor has been in office since 1976, and that's before the city became a city). Another measure could be scrapping local parties and returning to the tradition of major parties running their own candidates in municipal elections. I'm not basing it or any facts, but it seems to me like regional parties allow the mayors to have more control, appoint family members and friends etc, while major parties have interest in not being percieved as corrupt, thus adding a bit more scrunity.

You can't scrap local parties it's against freedom of association plus a lot of people don't like national party lists running on municipal level (like it or not major parties are not a good brand on the local level). Tenure cap for mayors is a step in the right direction.

There is a bipartisan support at the national level for change but local dictators usually hold a lot of sway in Likud\Labour. This needs to come from the government by forcing their hands and refusing to pay their deficits

Hm, that's true, haven't thought of that. As I said, didn't base it on anything, it was an off thew cuff suggestion.
But yeah, tenure caps are definitely logical and needed, but as you said, it sadly won't happen because of the power of local bosses in the major parties. And like in many other issues, it comes back to the people again- people need to start joining these two parties and voting in their own interest to weaken the special interests, but sadly, it won't happen.

[DavidB.]

Another story of sexual misconduct by a religious Bayit Yehudi MK is going to break. It's one of the six sitting religious MKs and if it were Bennet the story would have blown up already. It's also not Smotrich: in an interview he defended this anonymous person, which will soon not be anonymous anymore. That leaves four: Ben Dahan, Slomiansky, Yogev and Ariel. My bets are on Ariel, because it makes sense for Smotrich (also Tekuma) to defend him. In any case, this would be the second BY MK in two years, after Yinon Magal, to have engaged in sexual misconduct against women. Absurd.

Surely this is affecting their poll numbers?

No way. Most people who support BY will either not care, or say that the investigation is rigged against them, or complain about feminism. And the few people who will care, won't be swayed by it and will forget it once election day comes. The only thing of the sort that can have real effect is allegations against Bennet.

Come on dude, don't be a hack. It is indeed highly unlikely this will affect BY's polling numbers, but not because of any of this; it's because Slomiansky's behavior isn't seen as something political. Most BY voters would think he needs resign and that this behavior is disgusting, inappropriate and unacceptable, but they simply don't let it affect their view of the party.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Another story of sexual misconduct by a religious Bayit Yehudi MK is going to break. It's one of the six sitting religious MKs and if it were Bennet the story would have blown up already. It's also not Smotrich: in an interview he defended this anonymous person, which will soon not be anonymous anymore. That leaves four: Ben Dahan, Slomiansky, Yogev and Ariel. My bets are on Ariel, because it makes sense for Smotrich (also Tekuma) to defend him. In any case, this would be the second BY MK in two years, after Yinon Magal, to have engaged in sexual misconduct against women. Absurd.

Surely this is affecting their poll numbers?

No way. Most people who support BY will either not care, or say that the investigation is rigged against them, or complain about feminism. And the few people who will care, won't be swayed by it and will forget it once election day comes. The only thing of the sort that can have real effect is allegations against Bennet.

Come on dude, don't be a hack. It is indeed highly unlikely this will affect BY's polling numbers, but not because of any of this; it's because Slomiansky's behavior isn't seen as something political. Most BY voters would think he needs resign and that this behavior is disgusting, inappropriate and unacceptable, but they simply don't let it affect their view of the party.

I agree that I'm often a hack when it comes to Israeli politics. I have a lot to say about the left wing, but the Israeli right has become just cynical and corrupted in recent years, which frustrated me.

But in this case, it was more from looking at recent events. Ofek Buchris, an IDF Brigadier General was accused of raping (in the end he admitted and was convicted of 'forbidden intercourse in consent'). This is disgusting and unacceptable by every measure, yet many (especially on the right, unfourtunately, and I'm not talking from a political point of view, just as an observer) defended him as a 'hero' and a 'patriot', claiming the allegations are false, that he was pressed into admitting, trashing the women, these kinds of things. And I'm not even quoting those from the media, but from personal discussions with people. The BY, being an extreme party, has more loyal and zealous fans, so I'm entirely expecting a backlash if these allegations spark a discussion about the party as a whole.

[I’m not Stu]

How are Likud and Kulanu different on Zionism and other issues?

[SATW]

How are Likud and Kulanu different on Zionism and other issues?

Both are very Zionist, maybe Kulanu is more pro-Two state solution but Likud cares more about security issues, foreign policy issues etc... then Kulanu. Kulanu's zionism reminds me of Yesh Atid's zionism...bland patriotism, pro-zionist but not on Likud's level.

Kulanu was founded as economic and social issues party. Yoav Galant and Michael Oren are the two foreign policy gurus on the list but, of course, Moshe Kahlon is the party leader and he's famous for lowering rates in the telecom industry.

Kulanu seems more moderate/secular on social issues.