Is Mitt Romney lying a good thing?

[TJ in Oregon]

I had a friend tell me today that he is frustrated at how no one is willing to compromise and cited the GOP debate where the candidates were asked if they would agree to a 10-1 budget cut to tax increase compromise and not a single one agreed.

He then told me, that's why I'm voting for Romney: because the others actually believe that and he's lying.

What do you think of this argument?

[© tweed]

brilliant stuff.  I think we have the next great American social philosopher on our hands.  tell him I'll put him up $50 to write a full length book on the topic.

[You kip if you want to...]

Jon Huntsman was probably lying as well.

But anyway, it's just a variation of the "best of a bad bunch" arguement.

[Likely Voter]

This is why he has the support of moderate republicans and not of the base. Everyone knows he is lying, but there are more who wish he were telling the truth

[Marokai Backbeat]

For the millionth time; I fail to understand how taking completely opposite opinions and saying totally opposing things over the years is "nuance" or "compromise." It's flip flopping. Lying. Pandering. It's not anything principled or responsible, for God's sake. Taking opposing positions on almost every single important political issue in the last ten years is the sign of a shameless and crazen politician desperate for power to satisfy his ego.

If he was only mildly amending his positions, it would be nuance. If there were only a couple of well-thought out policy changes, they could be compromises or genuine changes of heart. But that's not the situation. Romney is a multi-personality candidate. Not a "serious, competent, compromising" individual. At all.

If we've seriously arrived at the point where all of that is actually positive then I'm really pessimistic about our future.

[Yank2133]

Yeah, I don't see how Romney's flops make him more "pragmatic". It is one thing to say no taxes, and increase taxes due to where the economy was a like Ronald Reagan. But this man has flipped on core issues.

He is simply a man neither side should trust.

[Politico]

When your wife asks you if that dress makes her look fat, do you lie for everybody's sake or do you tell her the truth?

Sometimes the situation calls for a lie. Knowing when it is absolutely essential to be honest and when a situation calls for a lie is an art that benefits all parties involved when executed properly.

[The_Texas_Libertarian]

The GOP candidates can't stray too far from the base, so I'm sure a few of the candidates are only taking certain positions to placate the base and if they win they will backtrack for the good of the country.  The same way George H.W. Bush said "no new taxes" then had to raise them

[cavalcade]

What do you think of this argument?

It was one of my arguments for voting for Hillary in 2008, so I'm pretty sympathetic.

The difference is, I think that Romney's statements by themselves position him well to the center of the other Republicans, before you even take his untrustworthiness into account.

[pbrower2a]

Lying usually means telling a falsehood either in contempt of the truth. One can be wrong; circumstances and outright reality can change. One can be deceived and then see the light. Consider how different the Great (political) Wisdom of the Ages changed in what had been the Soviet Bloc between 1984 and 1994. Every culture considers its converts the strongest proof of the rectitude of that culture and every apostate a disappointment.


One of the best tests of truth is its internal consistency. Deceit usually leads to internal inconsistencies, which explains why police investigations heavily rely upon the accused saying things that contradict evidence or the statements of people who have no personal stake in a case. It also explains why philosophers and mathematicians rely heavily upon reductio ad absurdum, a test of a proposed fact whose negation implies something else. No, bigger triangles do not have bigger angles.

Someone who says "We can deal with Saddam Hussein" in June 1990 might have a vastly-different change of view in August 1990, and that change would depend upon the invasion of Kuwait. But that would reflect a change of reality in the behavior of a person.  " A politician stumping for votes might put a different emphasis when before an audience of senior citizens (elderly issues like Medicare) than before an audience of college students (like student loans and job opportunities). But if the politician says things that taken together form a logical contradiction he is either a fool or a liar unless the situation has itself changed. "Indulge the seniors and $crew the youth" in Retirement World, Florida and "Look out for the interests of college students but $crew seniors" in College City, Florida a few days apart shows someone untrustworthy.

Mitt Romney is not as far to the Right as any other major candidate in the GOP, so he either isn't so sold-out or he really is sold out and is trying to seem moderate. Which Mitt do we have here? That will be a problem for him. The incumbent President is doing fine except for an economy that may be beyond the control of anyone beyond a few tweaks of monetary policy. It is becoming far harder to get away with trying to be all things to all people; clever people with political axes to grind can get video feeds from KAMR-TV (NBC 4, Amarillo) and WDIV-TV (NBC 4, Detroit) as contrasts. No, you can't promise greater exploitation of natural research and protection of the environment and get away with it; you can't promise lower wages to  Big Business and higher wages to Big Labor and get away with it.

[porker]

Lying usually means telling a falsehood either in contempt of the truth. One can be wrong; circumstances and outright reality can change. One can be deceived and then see the light. Consider how different the Great (political) Wisdom of the Ages changed in what had been the Soviet Bloc between 1984 and 1994. Every culture considers its converts the strongest proof of the rectitude of that culture and every apostate a disappointment.


One of the best tests of truth is its internal consistency. Deceit usually leads to internal inconsistencies, which explains why police investigations heavily rely upon the accused saying things that contradict evidence or the statements of people who have no personal stake in a case. It also explains why philosophers and mathematicians rely heavily upon reductio ad absurdum, a test of a proposed fact whose negation implies something else. No, bigger triangles do not have bigger angles.

Someone who says "We can deal with Saddam Hussein" in June 1990 might have a vastly-different change of view in August 1990, and that change would depend upon the invasion of Kuwait. But that would reflect a change of reality in the behavior of a person.  " A politician stumping for votes might put a different emphasis when before an audience of senior citizens (elderly issues like Medicare) than before an audience of college students (like student loans and job opportunities). But if the politician says things that taken together form a logical contradiction he is either a fool or a liar unless the situation has itself changed. "Indulge the seniors and $crew the youth" in Retirement World, Florida and "Look out for the interests of college students but $crew seniors" in College City, Florida a few days apart shows someone untrustworthy.

Mitt Romney is not as far to the Right as any other major candidate in the GOP, so he either isn't so sold-out or he really is sold out and is trying to seem moderate. Which Mitt do we have here? That will be a problem for him. The incumbent President is doing fine except for an economy that may be beyond the control of anyone beyond a few tweaks of monetary policy. It is becoming far harder to get away with trying to be all things to all people; clever people with political axes to grind can get video feeds from KAMR-TV (NBC 4, Amarillo) and WDIV-TV (NBC 4, Detroit) as contrasts. No, you can't promise greater exploitation of natural research and protection of the environment and get away with it; you can't promise lower wages to  Big Business and higher wages to Big Labor and get away with it.

So the question is do you prefer an untrustworthy Republican (who may be moderate or may be conservative) or an honest Republican (who is certainly conservative). A liberal should hope for the former, as there's only a risk he governs from the middle, rather than the latter who would govern from the right out of principal.

[Lincoln Republican]

Romney doesn't lie. 

He simply tweaks his views from time to time for the general good.

[Nichlemn]

It depends on what you want and what you think lying correlates with. Maybe you think Romney's opportunism means he will always give the majority what it wants, which you might think is an improvement over Obama (or the Republican alternatives). On the other hand, you might think it suggests Romney is completely self-interested, which means he might be more likely to accede to special interests or be flat out corrupt.

[Fuzzybigfoot]

Romney doesn't lie. 

He simply tweaks his views from time to time for the general good.