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Author Topic: Is Massachusetts not that liberal/progressive?  (Read 2991 times)
Governor Varavour
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« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2011, 07:34:52 pm »
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Where Massachusetts is one of the top 5 most liberal states in the country I also found it to be that lot of reactionary are thrown by Reagan Democrats who think Puerto Ricans are the scum of the Earth. My family is like this when I chat politics with them when I come down for a vist compare to my Vermont cousins who are very liberal. Basically the Scott Brown voters who think we should never question the scum-bag cops and that we should protect god in public events.

The current two term mayor of the largest city in Texas is an open lesbian.

As far as I can tell Houston is the largest city in the world with a lesbian mayor.

I think the honour goes to Paris.

But Washington isn't hopelessly Democratic, it could be won by a Romney 2002/Huntsman type.
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« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2011, 08:19:29 pm »
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Massachusetts is to a large extent progressive, and religion isn't 'dying' any more than it's notably 'dying' elsewhere. It's not as progressive as commonly supposed, certainly not as progressive as Vermont is in the senses that we're talking about, but that's because no state is entirely full of stereotypical political bogeymen. Western Massachusetts actually has the odd strain of left-communitarian tendencies.
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« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2011, 08:23:15 pm »
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So some White D's don't like Puerto Ricans and suddenly it's not liberal?
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« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2011, 08:45:02 pm »
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I think the honour goes to Paris.

Perhaps surprisingly, 'Bertrand' is actually man's name in France. And, just in case there is any further confusion, 'Klaus' is a man's name in Germany.
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« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2011, 12:53:05 am »
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Where Massachusetts is one of the top 5 most liberal states in the country I also found it to be that lot of reactionary are thrown by Reagan Democrats who think Puerto Ricans are the scum of the Earth. My family is like this when I chat politics with them when I come down for a vist compare to my Vermont cousins who are very liberal. Basically the Scott Brown voters who think we should never question the scum-bag cops and that we should protect god in public events.

The current two term mayor of the largest city in Texas is an open lesbian.

As far as I can tell Houston is the largest city in the world with a lesbian mayor.

I think the honour goes to Paris.

But Washington isn't hopelessly Democratic, it could be won by a Romney 2002/Huntsman type.

When very popular AG McKenna is not doing very hot in polls against the Congressman with no real name recognition, this hypothesis looks weak. Washington looks deceptively winnable for Republicans but getting above that 50% + 1 vote threshold is very difficult when the Democratic base is rock solid and when "swing voters" over the last ten years always break towards Democrats in contested/high-profile races.
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« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2011, 12:05:24 pm »
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The thing is, is that the mainline Christian religions (and I consider Catholics mainline for this purpose), are losing adherents in droves. That is why the Catholic percentage in the US is gradually drifting down despite the huge influx of Hispanics, and even though the Catholic figure is inflated somewhat because I suspect there is a particular high percentage of CINO's (Catholics in name only). So the mainline belts in the US have a particularly rapidly growing percentage of the "unchurched."
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« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2011, 12:56:40 pm »
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The thing is, is that the mainline Christian religions (and I consider Catholics mainline for this purpose), are losing adherents in droves. That is why the Catholic percentage in the US is gradually drifting down despite the huge influx of Hispanics, and even though the Catholic figure is inflated somewhat because I suspect there is a particular high percentage of CINO's (Catholics in name only). So the mainline belts in the US have a particularly rapidly growing percentage of the "unchurched."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Excellent point. I don't have data, but even here in the Bible Belt, lots of non-Baptists are increasingly unchurched. For whatever reason, Baptists are supremely effective in getting their folks to remain strong believers, through and through, even if they don't ever go to church as adults. Catholics seem to have the opposite situation where a lot of folks go to church and then return home with more willingness to think critically. Probably because Catholics stress reasoning in their dogma ( even if I don't buy a lot of it), whereas fundies are all about faith. Perhaps this should be the Baptist anthem Tongue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu3VTngm1F0&ob=av2e
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« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2011, 03:11:23 pm »
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So some White D's don't like Puerto Ricans and suddenly it's not liberal?

More like  some white R' s  in  Mass don't like Puerto Ricans.
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« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2011, 03:58:44 pm »
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The thing is, is that the mainline Christian religions (and I consider Catholics mainline for this purpose), are losing adherents in droves. That is why the Catholic percentage in the US is gradually drifting down despite the huge influx of Hispanics, and even though the Catholic figure is inflated somewhat because I suspect there is a particular high percentage of CINO's (Catholics in name only). So the mainline belts in the US have a particularly rapidly growing percentage of the "unchurched."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Excellent point. I don't have data, but even here in the Bible Belt, lots of non-Baptists are increasingly unchurched. For whatever reason, Baptists are supremely effective in getting their folks to remain strong believers, through and through, even if they don't ever go to church as adults. Catholics seem to have the opposite situation where a lot of folks go to church and then return home with more willingness to think critically. Probably because Catholics stress reasoning in their dogma ( even if I don't buy a lot of it), whereas fundies are all about faith. Perhaps this should be the Baptist anthem Tongue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu3VTngm1F0&ob=av2e

true enough I was raised catholic and went to catholic schools as a kid but I'm now an agnostic.
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« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2012, 01:13:08 pm »
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3. They'll probably legalize physician-assisted suicide in 2012 if it makes the ballot: http://www.dignity2012.org/

I'll be interested to see the margin of victory/defeat for that last one.

Would you support or oppose a proposal to
legalize assisted suicide in Massachusetts?

Support...........................................................  43%
Oppose...........................................................  37%
Not sure .........................................................  20%

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2011/PPP_Release_MA_322121.pdf
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« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2012, 03:31:46 pm »

I guess I'm just chiming in with the chorus, but indeed, Massachusetts is not as liberal as it's generally made out to be. It's still much more liberal than average, and heavily Democratic.

Thing is, though, a lot of folks who vote Democrat really aren't Democrats. Republicans won back a large number of these voters in 2010 when they doubled their presence in the state's lower house. Time will only tell if they can hold on to them.
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« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2012, 10:14:48 pm »
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i wouldn't say it is liberal but I would say its probably the least conservative state in the country. The reason why people think its so liberal is because the parts of the state that most people visit are very liberal (the Berkshires and the Suffolk County/South Middlesex area).

It does seem that they have a far left delegation though. In a state with only ten districts they have guys like Markey McGovern Frank Olver and Capuano who are all very far to the left.
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« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2012, 01:11:13 pm »
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Mass. may not be nearly as liberal as it is said to be, and there are some culturally conservative Dems, but it is still quite liberal by American standards. Even the most conservative counties in Mass. are still less culturally conservative than most of America. For example, the current MA-3 is relatively culturally conservative and still elects liberal Jim McGovern. Perhaps northern white working-class Catholics prioritize other things above social conservativism.

BTW, has anyone seen polls/results by county for gay marriage/marijuana in Mass.?
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« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2012, 08:27:20 pm »
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While it's still pretty liberal by American standards, there are certain bits of the Democratic base there that are kinda culturally conservative and are willing to support a Republican who has blue-collar appeal. This is perhaps why Warren's struggling a bit against Brown.
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« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2012, 04:44:29 pm »
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Mass. may not be nearly as liberal as it is said to be, and there are some culturally conservative Dems, but it is still quite liberal by American standards. Even the most conservative counties in Mass. are still less culturally conservative than most of America. For example, the current MA-3 is relatively culturally conservative and still elects liberal Jim McGovern. Perhaps northern white working-class Catholics prioritize other things above social conservativism.

BTW, has anyone seen polls/results by county for gay marriage/marijuana in Mass.?

I get the impression of Mass. being pretty culturally conservative, still.  It seems like despite their support for 'liberal' policies, they're still very "cut your hair, hippie."
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« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2012, 05:07:14 pm »
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Mass. may not be nearly as liberal as it is said to be, and there are some culturally conservative Dems, but it is still quite liberal by American standards. Even the most conservative counties in Mass. are still less culturally conservative than most of America. For example, the current MA-3 is relatively culturally conservative and still elects liberal Jim McGovern. Perhaps northern white working-class Catholics prioritize other things above social conservativism.

BTW, has anyone seen polls/results by county for gay marriage/marijuana in Mass.?

I get the impression of Mass. being pretty culturally conservative, still.  It seems like despite their support for 'liberal' policies, they're still very "cut your hair, hippie."

These so called "liberals" are the same ones that wouldn't want to talk with BRTD if they were sharing a room in an apartment?

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« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2012, 05:16:37 pm »
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It has a lot of culturally conservative Democrats who can be swung by an astute Republican- the GOP gubernatorial dynasty and now Scott Brown. Overall, more Democratic than liberal.
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« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2012, 03:51:29 pm »
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It has a lot of culturally conservative Democrats who can be swung by an astute Republican- the GOP gubernatorial dynasty and now Scott Brown. Overall, more Democratic than liberal.

The GOP governors seem to have more of a white collar base rather then the Scott Brown base. Seems similar to New York senator Al D'amato base back in the 1980's-1990's.
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« Reply #43 on: April 16, 2012, 04:10:53 pm »
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Where Massachusetts is one of the top 5 most liberal states in the country I also found it to be that lot of reactionary are thrown by Reagan Democrats who think Puerto Ricans are the scum of the Earth. My family is like this when I chat politics with them when I come down for a vist compare to my Vermont cousins who are very liberal. Basically the Scott Brown voters who think we should never question the scum-bag cops and that we should protect god in public events.

The current two term mayor of the largest city in Texas is an open lesbian.

As far as I can tell Houston is the largest city in the world with a lesbian mayor.

I think the honour goes to Paris.

But Washington isn't hopelessly Democratic, it could be won by a Romney 2002/Huntsman type.

When very popular AG McKenna is not doing very hot in polls against the Congressman with no real name recognition, this hypothesis looks weak. Washington looks deceptively winnable for Republicans but getting above that 50% + 1 vote threshold is very difficult when the Democratic base is rock solid and when "swing voters" over the last ten years always break towards Democrats in contested/high-profile races.
Jay Inslee has been around for awhile now though. The guy has represented 2 different congressional districts too in Washington State.
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« Reply #44 on: April 16, 2012, 04:19:51 pm »
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On Massachusetts yeah the West Side of the state of the state is liberal like Amherst. Of course Boston is pretty liberal too. Worcester isn't really that liberal though. I think Republicans like Scott Brown and the 2010 Republican Nominee for Governor Charlie Baker did well in the Eastern Part of the state. I mean a few districts in the Eastern Part of the state were trending Republican before the Redistricting happened(MA-3, MA-4, MA-6, and MA-9.)
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« Reply #45 on: April 16, 2012, 04:29:29 pm »
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Every state has extremes on both sides. For instance, my insane fundamentalist aunt lives in...Essex County, New Jersey.
Yeah Essex has a big Dem base with towns like Newark, Livingston, South Orange  Maplewood, Irvington, The Oranges, Bloomfield and Montclair. Nutley and Belleville lean dem. Though towns like in the western part of the county like "The Caldwells", and Verona voted spilt their votes between McCain and Obama. Cedar Grove and Roseland are pretty Republican though.
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« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2012, 12:08:39 pm »
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On Massachusetts yeah the West Side of the state of the state is liberal like Amherst. Of course Boston is pretty liberal too. Worcester isn't really that liberal though. I think Republicans like Scott Brown and the 2010 Republican Nominee for Governor Charlie Baker did well in the Eastern Part of the state. I mean a few districts in the Eastern Part of the state were trending Republican before the Redistricting happened(MA-3, MA-4, MA-6, and MA-9.)

It's really just some of the Boston exurbs and parts of Worcester and Plymouth Counties that are Republican as such in Massachusetts, and even then a lot of the more conservative people who would otherwise live there fled to southern New Hampshire in decades past. Places like the suburbs of Springfield, Essex County outside its cities, Norfolk County less Brookline and Quincy, and Cape Cod are a bit squishier politically and give Republicans a lot of such statewide victories as they get.
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« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2012, 08:39:22 pm »
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On Massachusetts yeah the West Side of the state of the state is liberal like Amherst. Of course Boston is pretty liberal too. Worcester isn't really that liberal though. I think Republicans like Scott Brown and the 2010 Republican Nominee for Governor Charlie Baker did well in the Eastern Part of the state. I mean a few districts in the Eastern Part of the state were trending Republican before the Redistricting happened(MA-3, MA-4, MA-6, and MA-9.)

It's really just some of the Boston exurbs and parts of Worcester and Plymouth Counties that are Republican as such in Massachusetts, and even then a lot of the more conservative people who would otherwise live there fled to southern New Hampshire in decades past. Places like the suburbs of Springfield, Essex County outside its cities, Norfolk County less Brookline and Quincy, and Cape Cod are a bit squishier politically and give Republicans a lot of such statewide victories as they get.

?
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« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2012, 10:02:03 pm »
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Their partisanship is much weaker than the rest of the state and so they are likely to swing to Republicans whenever they run a reasonably competitive race.

Essentially, Republicans have a "base" of perhaps 30% or so, and have 2-3 ways of getting that extra 20%.

1. Appeal to socially liberal but fiscally conservative wealthy/suburban voters.

2. Appeal to socially conservative (for MA) working-class voters ("Reagan Democrats"). - This one is probably the most promising for the MAGOP in the future.

3. Appeal to "ancestral" WASP voters with identity politics.  (This one may no longer be possible).

Edit:  This is the 300,000th post in this forum!  How cool is that!
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« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2012, 10:52:31 am »
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How would getting white working class voters for the MAGOP the most promising for them? Social issues such as abortion and gay marriage are supported by most citizens in the state and yet this would hurt the social conservative positions by the GOP. You can't play moral politics in a state like Massachusetts. Massachusetts was   the lone state that voted for  George McGovern in 1972. I'm guessing the way you could get these voters is fear mongering about black people, illegals, college grads, and Hollywood.
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