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News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

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Author Topic: The Official South Carolina/CBS News/National Journal GOP Debate Thread  (Read 6705 times)
Wonkish1
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« Reply #375 on: November 13, 2011, 02:25:01 am »
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Selling yourself...ask any man seeking a promotion in the military. It's not something I'm proud of, but schmoozing is probably more important for an officer seeing the next grade than in anything else...too political. Tax issues have to also be dealt with all the time, especially with regards to combat pay.

Granted, nothing in the military prepares you to deal with securities. I have to say though that when I was wealthier and had a portfolio just over $1M, I chose my wealth manager based upon his military service. He was a Marine and told me that many of his clients were veterans, and his office actually directed all veterans to him so it provided him a steady flow of clients.

No offense but your first paragraph is kind of reaching. Bringing up the tax issues involved in combat pay is like bringing up your family budget as experience in handling the budget of a corporation. Its not realistic at all.

So would you agree that not all professions stand to benefit more from a military education in comparison to others?
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« Reply #376 on: November 13, 2011, 02:37:46 am »
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Is there a law that says he can't argue for it because of both? Your post seems to indicate he has to choose between the two as why it should be put in place.

There can only be 1 "crux of any issue".

A phrase which you first used and clarence never did, that I remember. He has put his main emphasis on economic benefits, but he has in no way limited himself to just that as a justification for doing so that I have seen, in my opinion.

A person can have as many equally important reasons for supporting something as they want.
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« Reply #377 on: November 13, 2011, 02:39:17 am »
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Selling yourself...ask any man seeking a promotion in the military. It's not something I'm proud of, but schmoozing is probably more important for an officer seeing the next grade than in anything else...too political. Tax issues have to also be dealt with all the time, especially with regards to combat pay.

Granted, nothing in the military prepares you to deal with securities. I have to say though that when I was wealthier and had a portfolio just over $1M, I chose my wealth manager based upon his military service. He was a Marine and told me that many of his clients were veterans, and his office actually directed all veterans to him so it provided him a steady flow of clients.

No offense but your first paragraph is kind of reaching. Bringing up the tax issues involved in combat pay is like bringing up your family budget as experience in handling the budget of a corporation. Its not realistic at all.

So would you agree that not all professions stand to benefit more from a military education in comparison to others?

That is just one example, but I think many would tell you that tax issues are very prevalent in military pay. I would absolutely not agree with that, as I believe everyone benefits from military service due to organization and discipline.

I did not grow up wanting to serve in the military. I flunked out of college at 20 after failing one too many engineering courses.  The United States Navy changed me and made me the man I became.  I retired as a Chief Petty Officer (a high enlisted rank) and made the transition from mobile military construction to the construction of new homes. The timing was good and I made my way down to Florida to participate in the boom there.  By the time I retired, I was living in a dream- a 13 acre property in rural North Florida with the woman I loved in a home I built. I had an investment portfolio of about $1.1 million.  If you had told me I would become a millionaire in the time between college and the Navy, I would have laughed. While I have lost most of my fortune in the past several years trying to make my wife's last years as comfortable as possible, I still have enough to buy a smaller house in a more urban area, pay for medical expenses, eat and drink plenty, and occasionally travel. If it weren't for the US Navy, I would be either homeless or dead.
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« Reply #378 on: November 13, 2011, 02:39:51 am »
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Why do the skills or attributes that are acquired from military service have to be career specific to benefit someone in a certain occupation?
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« Reply #379 on: November 13, 2011, 02:41:48 am »
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Why do the skills or attributes that are acquired from military service have to be career specific to benefit someone in a certain occupation?

EXACTLY!
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« Reply #380 on: November 13, 2011, 02:57:59 am »
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Why do the skills or attributes that are acquired from military service have to be career specific to benefit someone in a certain occupation?

Because if you are going to claim that the military is superior to all other education possibilities during that mandatory period than your going to have to actually establish that it is better than the alternatives and Clarence is advocating mandatory military service for all people and so it has to be superior to all alternatives for every profession because in a free society where I can choose any path to advance my future career aspirations I'll gravitate to the places that stand to provide me the most benefit for those career aspirations.
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« Reply #381 on: November 13, 2011, 03:04:21 am »
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That is just one example, but I think many would tell you that tax issues are very prevalent in military pay. I would absolutely not agree with that, as I believe everyone benefits from military service due to organization and discipline.

I did not grow up wanting to serve in the military. I flunked out of college at 20 after failing one too many engineering courses.  The United States Navy changed me and made me the man I became.  I retired as a Chief Petty Officer (a high enlisted rank) and made the transition from mobile military construction to the construction of new homes. The timing was good and I made my way down to Florida to participate in the boom there.  By the time I retired, I was living in a dream- a 13 acre property in rural North Florida with the woman I loved in a home I built. I had an investment portfolio of about $1.1 million.  If you had told me I would become a millionaire in the time between college and the Navy, I would have laughed. While I have lost most of my fortune in the past several years trying to make my wife's last years as comfortable as possible, I still have enough to buy a smaller house in a more urban area, pay for medical expenses, eat and drink plenty, and occasionally travel. If it weren't for the US Navy, I would be either homeless or dead.

Wait a minute you are actually going to tell me that military is superior to all other methods of education for a career in finance? You serious? This is news to me, and that would be news to a lot of people in my industry. Damn I really blew it then with my degree in finance and my designations, my experience working in securities while in college, and my 12,000 hours of personal study. I should have just not done all of that and instead just joined the military and I guess I would be a lot more knowledgeable today and be a lot further in my career than I am now. Oops!

Sorry for the satire, but if the military was better for my career prospects I would have done it and so would have many others in my industry. They didn't because its not.
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« Reply #382 on: November 13, 2011, 03:08:24 am »
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That is just one example, but I think many would tell you that tax issues are very prevalent in military pay. I would absolutely not agree with that, as I believe everyone benefits from military service due to organization and discipline.

I did not grow up wanting to serve in the military. I flunked out of college at 20 after failing one too many engineering courses.  The United States Navy changed me and made me the man I became.  I retired as a Chief Petty Officer (a high enlisted rank) and made the transition from mobile military construction to the construction of new homes. The timing was good and I made my way down to Florida to participate in the boom there.  By the time I retired, I was living in a dream- a 13 acre property in rural North Florida with the woman I loved in a home I built. I had an investment portfolio of about $1.1 million.  If you had told me I would become a millionaire in the time between college and the Navy, I would have laughed. While I have lost most of my fortune in the past several years trying to make my wife's last years as comfortable as possible, I still have enough to buy a smaller house in a more urban area, pay for medical expenses, eat and drink plenty, and occasionally travel. If it weren't for the US Navy, I would be either homeless or dead.

Wait a minute you are actually going to tell me that military is superior to all other methods of education for a career in finance? You serious? This is news to me, and that would be news to a lot of people in my industry. Damn I really blew it then with my degree in finance and my designations, my experience working in securities while in college, and my 12,000 hours of personal study. I should have just not done all of that and instead just joined the military and I guess I would be a lot more knowledgeable today and be a lot further in my career than I am now. Oops!

Sorry for the satire, but if the military was better for my career prospects I would have done it and so would have many others in my industry. They didn't because its not.

1- I've enjoyed this discussion up until now, but you are showing your true colors as a sarcastic, disrespectful, little prick.

2- Never would I advocate the military instead of a college education,but as a supplement.

Perhaps some military service would have done you wonders in terms of respect and professionalism.  I certainly hope you do not have this sort of attitude in your work with securities, getting coffee for a hedge fund manager or whatever it is you do. 
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« Reply #383 on: November 13, 2011, 03:19:45 am »
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1- I've enjoyed this discussion up until now, but you are showing your true colors as a sarcastic, disrespectful, little prick.

2- Never would I advocate the military instead of a college education,but as a supplement.

Perhaps some military service would have done you wonders in terms of respect and professionalism.  I certainly hope you do not have this sort of attitude in your work with securities, getting coffee for a hedge fund manager or whatever it is you do.  

1. Hey I said sorry for the satire. I just used it to illustrate a point. Its not meant to be disrespectful. At one point you accused me of not appreciating those that have served in the military. I took offense to that. I definitely did not mean offense to this.

2. Then your advocating time outside of your chosen profession being the better part of a decade. That is a long time to not enter the professional world.

I actually put a lot of thought into joining the marines not because it offered much in the way to benefit my future career aspirations, but because I believe deeply that I was lucky to be born in this country and should look at doing what I could to defend it. The attitude within the firm is of aggressively challenging the assumptions of others because we are being trusted with a lot of other people's money and we don't take that responsibility lightly. When we are talking among each other the atmosphere is very blunt. When we are talking with clients its a lot more cordial.
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« Reply #384 on: November 13, 2011, 03:22:28 am »
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Typical military service nowadays is 3 years active duty, 3 years inactive reserve. 3 years for your country? No to hard a choice to make.

I gotta get myself to bed now
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Wonkish1
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« Reply #385 on: November 13, 2011, 03:37:41 am »
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Typical military service nowadays is 3 years active duty, 3 years inactive reserve. 3 years for your country? No to hard a choice to make.

I gotta get myself to bed now

I'm aware of that as I said before I have over a dozen friends that have done tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. But 3 years active duty(and correct me if I'm wrong, but anything related to accounting, payroll, etc. requires a choice of career in the military you can't do those by taking the minimum) plus 4 years of college means a minimum of 7 years(better part of a decade) before you can go into your chosen profession.

Have a good night, thanks again for your service, and sorry again if my post above in this discussion was a little to forceful I definitely didn't mean any offense or disrespect behind it.

Also, sorry about your wife. My deepest sympathies.
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« Reply #386 on: November 13, 2011, 03:58:30 am »
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That is just one example, but I think many would tell you that tax issues are very prevalent in military pay. I would absolutely not agree with that, as I believe everyone benefits from military service due to organization and discipline.

I did not grow up wanting to serve in the military. I flunked out of college at 20 after failing one too many engineering courses.  The United States Navy changed me and made me the man I became.  I retired as a Chief Petty Officer (a high enlisted rank) and made the transition from mobile military construction to the construction of new homes. The timing was good and I made my way down to Florida to participate in the boom there.  By the time I retired, I was living in a dream- a 13 acre property in rural North Florida with the woman I loved in a home I built. I had an investment portfolio of about $1.1 million.  If you had told me I would become a millionaire in the time between college and the Navy, I would have laughed. While I have lost most of my fortune in the past several years trying to make my wife's last years as comfortable as possible, I still have enough to buy a smaller house in a more urban area, pay for medical expenses, eat and drink plenty, and occasionally travel. If it weren't for the US Navy, I would be either homeless or dead.

Wait a minute you are actually going to tell me that military is superior to all other methods of education for a career in finance? You serious? This is news to me, and that would be news to a lot of people in my industry. Damn I really blew it then with my degree in finance and my designations, my experience working in securities while in college, and my 12,000 hours of personal study. I should have just not done all of that and instead just joined the military and I guess I would be a lot more knowledgeable today and be a lot further in my career than I am now. Oops!

Sorry for the satire, but if the military was better for my career prospects I would have done it and so would have many others in my industry. They didn't because its not.

There are people for whom military service is a disaster even if they don't get crippled or killed in combat or training. A sociopath who better knows weapons and killing techniques could go through military training and get proficient at 'arts' that one last wants an evil person to know. Who wants anyone to teach potential hit men the mastery of that trade?

Some people go through military life and develop a hostility to civilian life as well as injured feelings. The extreme example is Timothy McVeigh. That's before I mention the stereotyped (if mercifully rare) "angry veteran".

If someone has extremely cultivated artistic or academic skills, military life is probably a disaster. I notice that although returning WWII vets did well after the war in much, they did very badly in literary, musical, and artistic achievements.     
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« Reply #387 on: November 13, 2011, 01:59:11 pm »
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I'm interested in how Clarence suggests dealing with those who refuse to serve.
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« Reply #388 on: November 13, 2011, 02:37:31 pm »
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Politics renders a draft a moot point.  Suggesting it would be even more politically suicidal than the Republicans 2012 platform is going to end up being.
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