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| | |-+  German cabinet agrees to fine social media over hate speech
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Author Topic: German cabinet agrees to fine social media over hate speech  (Read 552 times)
dead0man
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« on: April 06, 2017, 04:19:19 pm »
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link - Reuters
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However, organizations representing digital companies, consumers and journalists, accused the government of rushing a law to parliament that could damage free speech.

"It is the wrong approach to make social networks into a content police," said Volker Tripp, head of the Digital Society Association consumer group.

<snip>

"This legislation would force private companies rather than the courts to become the judges of what is illegal in Germany," he said, adding that Facebook's partner Arvato would employ up to 700 staff in Berlin for "content moderation" by year's end.

<snip>

Bitkom, an association which represents digital companies, said the government should build up specialist teams to monitor online content for potential infringements, rather than expect social networks to do it themselves.

"Given the short deadlines and the severe penalties, providers will be forced to delete doubtful statements as a precaution. That would have a serious impact on free speech on the internet," said Bitkom manager Bernhard Rohleder.
uggggg  sooo effing stupid.  I know it would likely cost them more to pull out, but they should....Google and everybody else too.
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Antonio V
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« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2017, 12:58:08 pm »
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Good.
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Our numbers are dwindling. Our words are confused.
Some of them have been twisted by the enemy
until they can no longer be recognized.

Now what is wrong, or false, in what we have said?
Just some parts, or everything?
On whom can we still rely? Are we survivors, cast
away by the current? Will we be left behind,
no longer understanding anyone and being understood by no one?
Must we rely on luck?

This is what you ask. Expect
no answer but your own.


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WillipsBrighton
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« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2017, 12:59:44 pm »
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Banning legitimate political opinions will only radicalize people.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2017, 01:31:52 pm »
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Europeans on the right should start learning Hungarian or Polish -- or Hebrew, for those who echo Smiley Relocation may be necessary someday.
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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2017, 01:34:56 pm »
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Europeans on the right should start learning Hungarian or Polish -- or Hebrew, for those who echo Smiley Relocation may be necessary someday.

funny thing is, my more conservative hungarian and polish friends are starting to doubt the extremism/corruption of their ruling parties and are looking for alternatives.
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Senator PiT, PPT
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« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2017, 02:02:15 pm »
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     Germany continues to fall short in the department of freedom of speech.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2017, 02:03:54 pm »
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Europeans on the right should start learning Hungarian or Polish -- or Hebrew, for those who echo Smiley Relocation may be necessary someday.
funny thing is, my more conservative hungarian and polish friends are starting to doubt the extremism/corruption of their ruling parties and are looking for alternatives.
I don't disagree. The type of European right-winger that thinks Fidesz or PiS are ideal is similar to the type of right-wing diaspora Jew who thinks Likud is "based" -- informed people know better. I know all about the Polish and Hungarian ruling parties' corruption and how they ignore many of the real problems in their countries, and I will be the last one to idolize them. What I'm saying is that despite this point (and many other disadvantages of these countries), Western Europe may be worse off at some point in the future.
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« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2017, 03:52:56 pm »

Europeans on the right should start learning Hungarian or Polish -- or Hebrew, for those who echo Smiley Relocation may be necessary someday.

Reported for wishing a psychical harm on me.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2017, 04:06:12 pm »
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Europeans on the right should start learning Hungarian or Polish -- or Hebrew, for those who echo Smiley Relocation may be necessary someday.

Reported for wishing a psychical harm on me.
You'll be in Berlin or Paris by then Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2017, 04:18:38 pm »
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     Germany continues to fall short in the department of freedom of speech.
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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2017, 04:20:45 pm »
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Can't wait for the Ministry of Truth to finally decide on what is or is not fake news.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2017, 05:51:03 pm »
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Can't wait for the Ministry of Truth to finally decide on what is or is not fake news.
Hope you've started saving up already? Your posts on Atlas will soon be a thought crime.
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« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2017, 06:13:41 pm »
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     Germany continues to fall short in the department of freedom of speech.

Agreed. Not surprised to see the usual suspects supporting this, though.
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rbk
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« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2017, 10:39:42 pm »
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Europeans on the right should start learning Hungarian or Polish -- or Hebrew, for those who echo Smiley Relocation may be necessary someday.

Reported for wishing a psychical harm on me.
You'll be in Berlin or Paris by then Smiley

Ironically enough, you're inadvertently making a case for EU open borders. Everybody can sort themselves to a political scene and culture that suits them best.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2017, 12:56:31 pm »
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Ironically enough, you're inadvertently making a case for EU open borders. Everybody can sort themselves to a political scene and culture that suits them best.
I don't oppose Poles or Lithuanians moving here, or Italians moving to France, or Greeks moving to Germany (as long as this does not put natives at a disadvantage on the labor market, of course). I just think nation states should decide on who they take in and who should stay out, not the EU -- and I think they should be allowed to do so on the basis of criteria that would currently be off-limits due to EU and other international agreements. For example, Hungary (and the Netherlands, for that matter) should have the right to say yes to Christians and no to Muslims. But as far as I'm concerned most people from within the EU should be and are welcome here (though Romania and Bulgaria are borderline cases). Europeans have so much in common.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 01:00:32 pm by DavidB. »Logged
parochial boy
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« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2017, 02:54:47 pm »
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Ironically enough, you're inadvertently making a case for EU open borders. Everybody can sort themselves to a political scene and culture that suits them best.
I don't oppose Poles or Lithuanians moving here, or Italians moving to France, or Greeks moving to Germany (as long as this does not put natives at a disadvantage on the labor market, of course). I just think nation states should decide on who they take in and who should stay out, not the EU -- and I think they should be allowed to do so on the basis of criteria that would currently be off-limits due to EU and other international agreements. For example, Hungary (and the Netherlands, for that matter) should have the right to say yes to Christians and no to Muslims. But as far as I'm concerned most people from within the EU should be and are welcome here (though Romania and Bulgaria are borderline cases). Europeans have so much in common.

Seeing as there are no Muslims countries in the EU, the Netherlands or Hunary pretty much do have the right to limit immigration by Muslims.

It's also interesting that intra-EU migration has only ever really been an issue in the UK (and Switzerland). Le Pen or Strache's big thing isn't Polish migrants in the way it was for UKIP.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2017, 03:06:47 pm »
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Seeing as there are no Muslims countries in the EU, the Netherlands or Hunary pretty much do have the right to limit immigration by Muslims.
Of course not. There are more Muslims with EU citizenship than there are Dutch, and all these people have the right to move around. Not that they are ever collectively going to decide to move to Hungary, but theoretically they do have that right.

It's also interesting that intra-EU migration has only ever really been an issue in the UK (and Switzerland). Le Pen or Strache's big thing isn't Polish migrants in the way it was for UKIP.
I agree that it was more of an issue in the UK than anywhere else, but I'd definitely say it was a political issue here too. The PVV once received a lot of attention for starting a hotline to complain about any trouble caused by "MOE-landers", which stands for people coming from Central or Eastern European. There used to be quite a lot of prejudice against these people, which I didn't like at all. Former PvdA alderman Marnix Norder in The Hague, where a lot of Polish immigrants ended up, made some rather harsh comments about them as well ("a tsunami", "I don't have anything against them, but there are too many of them").
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 03:08:29 pm by DavidB. »Logged
parochial boy
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« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2017, 03:14:29 pm »
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Of course not. There are more Muslims with EU citizenship than there are Dutch, and all these people have the right to move around. Not that they are ever collectively going to decide to move to Hungary, but theoretically they do have that right.

How much immigration of Muslims between Western European countries is there though? I mean, Muslims living France get blamed for about half the crime in the Geneva region (Roma get blamed for the other half), but that was something I always thought was quite specific to the region. I would have assumed that most Turkish or Moroccans in Holland migrated directly rather than via another part of Europe?
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DavidB.
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« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2017, 04:07:22 pm »
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How much immigration of Muslims between Western European countries is there though? I mean, Muslims living France get blamed for about half the crime in the Geneva region (Roma get blamed for the other half), but that was something I always thought was quite specific to the region. I would have assumed that most Turkish or Moroccans in Holland migrated directly rather than via another part of Europe?
Oh, there is almost no Muslim immigration from other EU countries to the Netherlands afaik. It's very much a theoretical point.
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Rogier
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« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2017, 04:08:55 pm »
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Of course not. There are more Muslims with EU citizenship than there are Dutch, and all these people have the right to move around. Not that they are ever collectively going to decide to move to Hungary, but theoretically they do have that right.

How much immigration of Muslims between Western European countries is there though? I mean, Muslims living France get blamed for about half the crime in the Geneva region (Roma get blamed for the other half), but that was something I always thought was quite specific to the region. I would have assumed that most Turkish or Moroccans in Holland migrated directly rather than via another part of Europe?


Maybe they were looking for religious freedom.
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Cory
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« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2017, 09:19:19 pm »
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Germany continues to over-correct from WWII.
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mvd10
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« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2017, 07:41:50 am »
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Is there an opinion poll on this? But Merkel continues to be terrible, no surprise.
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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2017, 10:27:59 am »
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imho there can be a difference of opinion regarding the question, if someone who wishes for refugee children to be burnt alive instead of getting free showers, to be fined.

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