Evangelicals Now Preaching Joys of Sex (Within Marriage)

[Frodo]

Sexually positive Protestant evangelicals -now if only the Roman Catholic Church can follow suit:

Christian leaders talk about marriage and sex

By Lisa Miller, Published: November 10

Last week, Rick Warren sent this message to the nearly 500,000 people who follow him on Twitter: “Husbands & wives should satisfy each other’s sexual needs. 1 Cor 7:3.”

His Twitter feed lit up with amens and retweets. “Oh gosh,” exclaimed one follower.

Evangelical Christians want to talk about sex. And not in the same old punitive way. They want to talk about hot sex — as long as it’s between a man and a woman who are husband and wife. That Warren, perhaps the nation’s most prominent evangelical pastor, would take up the cause only shows how much it matters to the people who listen to him.

--snip---

This sexual revolution is the inevitable result of a younger Christian generation rejecting outright the prudish “don’t do it because I said so” approach to sex and social morality of their grandfathers. According to a recent article in Christian magazine Relevant, 80 percent of self-identified Christians have sex before marriage, compared with 88 percent of the general population. According to “UnChristian,” a 2008 book by David Kinnaman and Gabe Lyons, 44 percent of born-again Christians ages 23 to 41 believe sex outside marriage is morally acceptable, compared with 23 percent of those who are older. Divorce rates among evangelicals are the same as those in the population at large.

[King]

Rick Warren is usually more progressive than other the major evangelical ministers. Not by much, but noticeably so among the ChristRight community.

[Grad Students are the Worst]

The Catholics did this ages ago, but it probably fits better into the "let's chat as a community" thing evangelicals are into.

Good for them, though.  I find their theology inscrutable but this is internally consistent and it's just sex.  There are plenty of actual restrictions on their enjoyment evangelical Christianity puts on them, and I'm glad pastors are discouraging them from inventing one here.  It's pretty much one of the best non-restricted activities they have

[realisticidealist]

Sexually positive Protestant evangelicals -now if only the Roman Catholic Church can follow suit:

Uh, Catholics are all about enjoying sex in marriage...

[Frodo]

I'm sorry, but I thought that the Catholic Church was all about sex for the purpose of procreation only, NOT for the joys of the act itself (i.e. fornication), and that that is still their position.

If I misunderstood, please point it out.    

[Grad Students are the Worst]

Sexually positive Protestant evangelicals -now if only the Roman Catholic Church can follow suit:

Uh, Catholics are all about enjoying sex in marriage...

Yeah, although I've never seen such dry writing about how to enjoy sex  But you guys were way ahead of the Protestants on that curve.

I'm sorry, but I thought that the Catholic Church was all about sex for the purpose ofprocreation, not for the joys of the act itself (i.e. fornication), and that that is still their position.  

Fornication is improper sex, not sex where you enjoy yourself making babies.  Catholics are totally OK with whistling while you work.  They've written long, borderline interminable (see above) documents on the subject.

[realisticidealist]

I'm sorry, but I thought that the Catholic Church was all about sex for the purpose ofprocreation, not for the joys of the act itself (i.e. fornication), and that that is still their position.  

They officially say it should be about both equally, but they also provide explicitly for a way to have sex without procreating through nfp, so I don't think that characterization is really accurate.

Sexually positive Protestant evangelicals -now if only the Roman Catholic Church can follow suit:

Uh, Catholics are all about enjoying sex in marriage...

Yeah, although I've never seen such dry writing about how to enjoy sex  But you guys were way ahead of the Protestants on that curve.

http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Sex-Toe-Curling-Mind-Blowing-Infallible/dp/0824524713

But yes, there is a lot of that too.

[Grad Students are the Worst]

I'm sorry, but I thought that the Catholic Church was all about sex for the purpose ofprocreation, not for the joys of the act itself (i.e. fornication), and that that is still their position.  

They officially say it should be about both equally, but they also provide explicitly for a way to have sex without procreating through nfp, so I don't think that characterization is really accurate.

I think the Humanae Vitae even encourages this in cases where couples have lots of children or they want to space them out.  I'm not clear on whether the Church is OK with NFP in situations where procreation wouldn't be morally problematic.  I know they discourage its use for "selfish" reasons, but do you know the extent of that admonition?

[Frodo]

In before Gustaf deletes this:

It's my girl-friend's birthday -and it happens to fall on the same day as Valentine's Day.  I decide to make a surprise home-cooked candlelight dinner replete with her favorite flowers.  I follow up with a full-bodied erotic massage in our bedroom surrounded by scented candles. We engage in foreplay, I perform cunnilingus, etc.  We have mind-blowing sex, and she has orgasm after orgasm that never seem to end.  After what seems like forever, we finally sink back into bed in each other's arms, exhausted but exhilarated...  
-------------------------------

Under what circumstances would the Church approve of this scenario?

[Grad Students are the Worst]

In before Gustaf deletes this:

It's my girl-friend's birthday -and it happens to fall on the same day as Valentine's Day.  I decide to make a surprise home-cooked candlelight dinner replete with her favorite flowers.  I follow up with a full-bodied erotic massage in our bedroom surrounded by scented candles. We engage in foreplay, I perform cunnilingus, etc.  We have mind-blowing sex, and she has orgasm after orgasm that never seem to end.  After what seems like forever, we finally sink back into bed in each other's arms, exhausted but exhilarated...  
-------------------------------

Under what circumstances would the Church approve of this scenario?

Unless this "girlfriend" is married to you and you're going bareback, they're not going to.  The Catechisms do not have a "HIGH FIVE, BRO!" clause, as far as I know.

Also, the Church would probably need to know what the hell "etc." is before it makes a final decision.  If that's, like, hot-and-heavy meat-on-Fridays play, I think you're digging yourself an even bigger hole with the Vatican.  Definitely no bro-five clause there.

[realisticidealist]

I'm sorry, but I thought that the Catholic Church was all about sex for the purpose ofprocreation, not for the joys of the act itself (i.e. fornication), and that that is still their position.  

They officially say it should be about both equally, but they also provide explicitly for a way to have sex without procreating through nfp, so I don't think that characterization is really accurate.

I think the Humanae Vitae even encourages this in cases where couples have lots of children or they want to space them out.  I'm not clear on whether the Church is OK with NFP in situations where procreation wouldn't be morally problematic.  I know they discourage its use for "selfish" reasons, but do you know the extent of that admonition?

Well, NFP is officially used to allow couples to space out their children such that they can properly care for them, but there are no set guidelines on how long such a space is. Catholic couples tend to want children, but they aren't forced to seek them out every time they have sex; conversely, though, they should be open to life in the sense that they aren't using artificial birth control and that they willing accept any children they conceive even when using NFP.

Using NFP as a way to avoid ever having children would obviously be condemning pretty strongly, but, as I said, there aren't any fast and hard rules on what amount of children a Catholic couple has to have.

Also, there are a few other things I want to point out. One is that sex during pregnancy is not condemned and is encouraged as far as I can tell even though the wife obviously can't get doubly pregnant and the only point would be for spousal intimacy. Infertile couples also can have sex as much as they want. Secondly, as further evidence that we're not anti-enjoying sex, there is a belief that sex should be something that is enjoyed by both partners and not something where one partner just uses another as that denigrates their dignity in the relationship; that is, both partners should work to ensure that both get something out of it, eg if the husband typically finishes before the wife, he is perfectly allowed to do whatever he can to make sure that she finishes too. People generally think that Catholics are against oral sex, for example, but this isn't entirely true; it is allowed as a part of the overall sex act as long as it isn't the main focus per se.

So, what Gustaf/Frodo wrote would be perfectly permissible in a marriage setting.

[Grad Students are the Worst]

Thanks.

And I knew that was Gustaf's smut!

[dead0man]

This may come as a shocker, but my church (S.Baptist remember...birthplace of Fundie) was preaching the joy of sex in marriage as far back as I can remember (we're talking the 70s  here).  It had nothing to do with kids and making more of them.  It was about happy marriages.

Sometimes even Fundies are right.....sort of.

[useful idiot]

Yeah not new at all. There have been several dozen "big-time" pastors who have done sermon series' on sex in the past decade. The media has been impressed enough to write articles about it in almost every instance.

I'm not opposed per say, but when these seeker-sensitive megachurch types do this it's a marketing ploy more than anything. That I am opposed to...

[Frodo]

Thanks.

And I knew that was Gustaf's smut!

That was entirely my creation -I only referenced him because I am aware he moderates this board and I wasn't sure whether the scenario I posted fit within the bounds of what is appropriate.  

Just to clear the record...  

[BushKenya]

Good for Rick Warren.  There is nothing wrong with enjoying the pleasures of this life with your spouse.  After all, God ordained sex, it just must be done in the correct manner between husband and wife.  Anything outside of that violates God's commands and, I think, is why they are susceptible to a lot more diseases.

[CathKhan]

Why of course.

[Dr. Cynic]

How about the girl I'm GOING to marry in May?... We are monogamous after all. But I bet the churches still think I was sinning when we had amazing pre-marital bliss in her parents' house

[BushKenya]

How about the girl I'm GOING to marry in May?... We are monogamous after all. But I bet the churches still think I was sinning when we had amazing pre-marital bliss in her parents' house

That's ultimately between you, your fiancee, and God.  From what I read, the Bible doesn't condone that, but again it's between you, your fiancee, and God.  However, though, if you do go ahead with it, it will be sin, but take the fact that it is no more sinful than any other sin.  I've even had sex with my ex-fiancee before.  So, if you expect me to condemn you for it, think again, buddy.

[The Mikado]

Yeah, Christianity's very positive about sex within marriage.  It's extramarital stuff that brings the fire and brimstone.

Anyone remember Ted Haggard's pre-fall tape when he says that the reason the athiests hate evangelicals is because evangelicals have better sex? 

[BushKenya]

Yeah, Christianity's very positive about sex within marriage.  It's extramarital stuff that brings the fire and brimstone.

Anyone remember Ted Haggard's pre-fall tape when he says that the reason the athiests hate evangelicals is because evangelicals have better sex? 

Ahh, yes, Mr. Haggard... I wonder who he's sleeping, er... hanging out with these days.

[A cowboy always follows his beard]

Yeah, Christianity's very positive about sex within marriage.  It's extramarital stuff that brings the fire and brimstone.

Anyone remember Ted Haggard's pre-fall tape when he says that the reason the athiests hate evangelicals is because evangelicals have better sex? 

Ahh, yes, Mr. Haggard... I wonder who he's sleeping, er... hanging out with these days.

He's probably contributing to the "All Homophobes are secretly gay" thing.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

There are plenty of actual restrictions on their enjoyment evangelical Christianity puts on them, and I'm glad pastors are discouraging them from inventing one here.  It's pretty much one of the best non-restricted activities they have

that made no sense whatsoever

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

this thread makes no sense - since when did Christians NOT preach the joy of sex?  It always amazes me when the perception of nonChristians is totally contrary to my 19 years of being a Christian.

Proverbs 5:18 "May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. A loving doe, a graceful deer— may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be intoxicated with her love."

Note to dolts:  jmfcst's are not the extreme minority you attempt to make them out to be.

[A cowboy always follows his beard]

Don't forget the Song of Solomon. It's basically erotic poetry, and it's one of two books that doesn't mention God at all.