STOLEN WATERS ARE SWEET

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

STOLEN WATERS

(link to sermon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgK5fvBTwic&)

A minister once quoted the verse from Proverbs 9 as if it was a biblical truth: "Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant."  That is the quote, but it isn't a biblical truth.  In context, it is the quote of a seductress.  She tries to woo a client on the basis of "stolen waters are sweet."

The rest of the story tells us that those who turn in to her house die there, or are in hell.  It is Solomon's warning that infidelity will ruin us, and he offers moral advice to his sons in several chapters of Proverbs.

Did you know that the simplest cure for infidelity lies in making sure your marriage is what it is supposed to be?  This one area may expose the weakest link in the modern Christian, at least in America.  We like to spiritualize our lives. We like to think that we are "more spiritual" or "holier" than "other Christians."  And in that context we think that more praying, or fasting, or any other ritual of spirituality, will solve all our problems.  It won't fix a marriage.

Paul wrote that a husband and wife have a duty to each other.  They must give to the other what they had a "right to expect" in marriage.  They must be intimate.  And Paul presents his case as if it is a cure for sexual immorality.  Look how he says it: "...because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband... each should give the conjugal rights (what each had a right to expect in marriage) to the other...  each one's body belongs to the other... and we must not deprive each other of the needs of each one's intimacy... otherwise SATAN will enter the picture and entice us because we do, after all, lack self-control"  (I Cor. 7:2-5).

In other words, if your spouse leaves you or cheats on you, and you have to honestly admit that you didn't give to him or her what he had a right to expect, what he begged for, what you knew he/she needed... then shame on YOU!  Oh, sure, the wounded, forsaken ones go to church and cry and ask everyone to pray for them because they are the latest victim of "Satan's" attack.  And, sure, they let everyone know how hard they had been praying for their marriage to work.   But sometimes it's time to quit praying, and start loving and serving.  Most husbands aren't marrying thinking:  "Man, I just hope my little wife is going to pray a lot, and tell me every day what the Lord said."  No. They marry thinking: "Man, my lonely days are about to be over, and I'm gonna be loved every night!"

We ought to get honest about our marriage attitudes. We ought to repent of our selfishness, our demands to BE SERVED, and start serving and pleasing our spouses.  Less prayer and more service would make most marriages blossom.

Take it or leave it.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

did anyone bother to watch the video?  thought the forum would enjoy seeing how sexuality is preached within a church of jmfcst's

[King]

The bible can be taken out of context, you say?

[Stardust]

Looks like someone followed Rick Warren's recent inveighment that evangelicals start talking about sex with the predictably hilarious results.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Looks like someone followed Rick Warren's recent inveighment that evangelicals start talking about sex with the predictably hilarious results.

Son, my pastor has ALWAYS talked openly about sex...heck, before my wife and I were married, we went to mandatory counseling sessions (my pastor didn't marry anyone without some premarriage counseling sessions), and this sermon is NOTHING compared to those sessions.  In those session, he dealt with topics like the guilt of masturbation, what the definition of being oversexed is, how frequently sex should occur in marriage, how to approach the wedding night, learning each other’s boundaries, who to communicate in sex, etc, etc, etc.

[Stardust]

Looks like someone followed Rick Warren's recent inveighment that evangelicals start talking about sex with the predictably hilarious results.

Son, my pastor has ALWAYS talked openly about sex...heck, before my wife and I were married, we went to mandatory counseling sessions (my pastor didn't marry anyone without some premarriage counseling sessions), and this sermon is NOTHING compared to those sessions.  In those session, he dealt with topics like the guilt of masturbation, what the definition of being oversexed is, how frequently sex should occur in marriage, how to approach the wedding night, learning each other’s boundaries, who to communicate in sex, etc, etc, etc.

One of the prime reasons I could never be an evangelical Christian, exhibit A: I detest liberals who need to be all touchy-feely with regards to natural biological functions, but with them I can least understand why they do it, as they're touchy-feely on almost everything. Evangelical Christians try to put up a masculine facade on almost everything, then admit to feeling guilt over masturbation. It's weak.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

One of the prime reasons I could never be an evangelical Christian, exhibit A: I detest liberals who need to be all touchy-feely with regards to natural biological functions, but with them I can least understand why they do it, as they're touchy-feely on almost everything. Evangelical Christians try to put up a masculine facade on almost everything, then admit to feeling guilt over masturbation. It's weak.

A masculine façade to sex?!  How would that work for the female members of the congregation?  You do know the bible address BOTH the woman’s and the man’s needs sexual needs, don’t you?

And feeling guilty over sexual sin has nothing to do with masculinity; rather it has everything to do with being a big enough person to deal with you sins instead of covering up your sins.

And my pastor advises the man NOT to attempt to act like a stud on the wedding night and pound his bride into the mattress.  But rather to take it easy with each other on the wedding night and learn how each other likes to be touched.

In other words, you have NO IDEA what you’re talking about.

[Stardust]

A masculine façade to sex?!  How would that work for the female members of the congregation?  You do know the bible address BOTH the woman’s and the man’s needs sexual needs, don’t you?

So?

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And if you don't find the concepts 'masturbation', 'rough trade', etc. to be 'sinful', it comes across as an effete approach to sex.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Exactly so: weak.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

A masculine façade to sex?!  How would that work for the female members of the congregation?  You do know the bible address BOTH the woman’s and the man’s needs sexual needs, don’t you?

So?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

And if you don't find the concepts 'masturbation', 'rough trade', etc. to be 'sinful', it comes across as an effete approach to sex.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Exactly so: weak.

 

you do understand we're talking about a church here and not a strip club, right?  therefore we follow the biblical guidelines on the definition of sin.

Now, if you want to biblically argue masturbation is not a sin, then be my guest. 

[Stardust]

A masculine façade to sex?!  How would that work for the female members of the congregation?  You do know the bible address BOTH the woman’s and the man’s needs sexual needs, don’t you?

So?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

And if you don't find the concepts 'masturbation', 'rough trade', etc. to be 'sinful', it comes across as an effete approach to sex.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Exactly so: weak.

 

you do understand we're talking about a church here and not a strip club, right?  therefore we follow the biblical guidelines on the definition of sin.

Now, if you want to biblically argue masturbation is not a sin, then be my guest. 

And that's fine. I mentioned it only in passing, and in the context of why I, myself, could never be an evangelical Christian: I am predisposed to find this sort of talk rather funny. It sounds like closeted gay men trying to sound as hetero as they can to me.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

And that's fine. I mentioned it only in passing, and in the context of why I, myself, could never be an evangelical Christian: I am predisposed to find this sort of talk rather funny. It sounds like closeted gay men trying to sound as hetero as they can to me.

in other words, you know nothing about the bible or what it teaches and are simply going by what you think things sound like.

[All Along The Watchtower]

And that's fine. I mentioned it only in passing, and in the context of why I, myself, could never be an evangelical Christian: I am predisposed to find this sort of talk rather funny. It sounds like closeted gay men trying to sound as hetero as they can to me.

in other words, you know nothing about the bible or what it teaches and are simply going by what you think things sound like.

jmfcst, do you consider yourself a biblical fundamentalist?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

jmfcst, do you consider yourself a biblical fundamentalist?

I attempt to pattern Jesus and Apostles for my doctrine and opinion of scripture.  If you considered Jesus and the Apostles as "biblical fundamentalist", than so am I.

[Stardust]

And that's fine. I mentioned it only in passing, and in the context of why I, myself, could never be an evangelical Christian: I am predisposed to find this sort of talk rather funny. It sounds like closeted gay men trying to sound as hetero as they can to me.

in other words, you know nothing about the bible or what it teaches and are simply going by what you think things sound like.

I wasn't commenting on "what the Bible teaches". I was commenting on your pastor's comments, which read to me as being misandric.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

On what biblical basis do you find masturbation to be a sin jmf?

Onan's sin was refusing to consummate a Levirate marriage, not any particular method of doing so.

In Leviticus 15:16-18, the emission of semen outside of heterosexual intercourse is no worse than the emission of semen during heterosexual as far as ritual impurity is concerned, as the required activity and length of time to resume being considered ritually pure is the same.

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The Jewish concept of "waste of seed" is found in the Talmud, not the Tanakh (i.e., Old Testament), but if you hold to that line of reasoning, what the heck do you and mrs. jmf do for fun when she can't possibly become pregnant and thus sex is a sin?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

And that's fine. I mentioned it only in passing, and in the context of why I, myself, could never be an evangelical Christian: I am predisposed to find this sort of talk rather funny. It sounds like closeted gay men trying to sound as hetero as they can to me.

in other words, you know nothing about the bible or what it teaches and are simply going by what you think things sound like.

I wasn't commenting on "what the Bible teaches". I was commenting on your pastor's comments, which read to me as being misandric.

you'll have to site what he said, how it contradicts the bible, and how it is misandic

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

you'll have to site what he said, how it contradicts the bible, and how it is misandic

While you wait for Stardust, perhaps you would care to answer my request that you explain on what biblical basis do you find masturbation to be a sin?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

you'll have to site what he said, how it contradicts the bible, and how it is misandic

While you wait for Stardust, perhaps you would care to answer my request that you explain on what biblical basis do you find masturbation to be a sin?

use the search engine to search for the masturbation posted by me

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

On what biblical basis do you find masturbation to be a sin jmf?

Onan's sin...

masturbation has nothing to do with Onan's sin (he sinned by refusing to fulfill the required role of kinsman redeemer)

rather it has to do with lust and the proper context for sex.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

STOLEN WATERS

(link to sermon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgK5fvBTwic&)

I was out of town on a hunting trip with my son this past Sunday, so I didn't get to hear the feedback from the previous week's sermon (the one in the link above); but apparently, the 11:30-12:00 portion of this video landed my pastor in "hot water" and he received some scolding emails as a result.  LOL!

 

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

STOLEN WATERS

(link to sermon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgK5fvBTwic&)

I was out of town on a hunting trip with my son this past Sunday, so I didn't get to hear the feedback from the previous week's sermon (the one in the link above); but apparently, the 11:30-12:00 portion of this video landed my pastor in "hot water" and he received some scolding emails as a result.  LOL!

and not a week earlier:...

First of all someone who may very well have been a victim of something awful wishing to push back against her alleged aggressor≠wishing to "take Cain down among GOP voters."  If the alleged victim was your wife/daughter/mother how would you feel?  It's not about politics...Some people on this forum need to take a break from politics and be human for a change.

something awful?!  LOL!  you make it sound as if she had been raped.  good looking women get propositioned all the time.  yes it is wrong to do in the workplace and if true Cain should drop out of the race, but this isn't a criminal offense or anything.

despicable.

I understand why you don't hang around good looking women (mainly because they don't want you around), but this sort of thing is a weekly occurrence when they're out in public view.

guess that is why he is my pastor - we think alike....heck, I could have given this sermon myself

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

On what biblical basis do you find masturbation to be a sin jmf?

Onan's sin...

masturbation has nothing to do with Onan's sin (he sinned by refusing to fulfill the required role of kinsman redeemer)

Agreed, but since his name is linked with masturbation, I thought it best to exclude that possible line of reasoning.

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If I gleaned correctly from what I got in the search your argument is similar to the Talmudic "waste of seed" argument save that it isn't as narrowly focused up procreation as the sole purpose of sex.

But even with the point of view that the sole purpose of sex is to facilitate the union of man and wife, I don't see how that jibes with the proposition that ALL masturbation is sinful.

What of those who are not married, or who are not able to be physically in the presence of their spouse?

[Stardust]

And that's fine. I mentioned it only in passing, and in the context of why I, myself, could never be an evangelical Christian: I am predisposed to find this sort of talk rather funny. It sounds like closeted gay men trying to sound as hetero as they can to me.

in other words, you know nothing about the bible or what it teaches and are simply going by what you think things sound like.

I wasn't commenting on "what the Bible teaches". I was commenting on your pastor's comments, which read to me as being misandric.

you'll have to site what he said, how it contradicts the bible, and how it is misandic

I don't care about how it "contradicts the Bible". It's misandric because it teaches that men ought to feel guilty for their natural sexual impulses.