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Author Topic: Israel and Palestine  (Read 23729 times)
JohnFKennedy
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« on: March 26, 2004, 08:52:38 AM »

When I say state of Israel, I do not mean as part of the USA Wink

I would like to see some views on this and what people think, I am pro-Israel being Jewish and I think the Palestinians made this problem for themselves when they refused Israel's offer of all of the conquered land excluding Jerusalem, or the offer of 45% of the Israel.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2004, 09:24:59 AM »
« Edited: March 26, 2004, 09:31:29 AM by Old Europe »

"50% Israel and 50% Palestine"
or
"Gaza and the West Bank Palestinian, the rest Israel"
or
"Israel offered deal - 45% Palestine 55% Israel".

I´m so undecided. Wink

Anyway, I voted for "Gaza and the West Bank Palestinian, the rest Israel".


EDIT: Check out the Middle East Political Opinion Selector (http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=mideast).
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2004, 09:27:22 AM »

"50% Israel and 50% Palestine"
or
"Gaza and the West Bank Palestinian, the rest Israel"
or
"Israel offered deal - 45% Palestine 55% Israel".

Voted for "Gaza and the West Bank Palestinian, the rest Israel".

I personally don't think the 50/50 is feasible, it would be impossible to partition.
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2004, 09:28:02 AM »

Can I just say, the 45/55 deal was offered a while back and Yasser Arafat refused it and continued terror attacks on Israel, I am for that deal.
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Kghadial
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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2004, 09:40:43 AM »

When I say state of Israel, I do not mean as part of the USA Wink


lol

I remember when I was first taught about Israel's creation.  I thought that it was silly place to put a nation of Jews. It didn't seem wise to put a few million Jews in the middle of tens of millions of Arabs. I said "why didn't we give them the Dakotas, its not like we were using them"
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dunn
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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2004, 09:44:00 AM »

When I say state of Israel, I do not mean as part of the USA Wink


lol

I remember when I was first taught about Israel's creation.  I thought that it was silly place to put a nation of Jews. It didn't seem wise to put a few million Jews in the middle of tens of millions of Arabs. I said "why didn't we give them the Dakotas, its not like we were using them"
It was, is and will be their land. You heard about history, roots, etc.
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Kghadial
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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2004, 09:56:24 AM »

When I say state of Israel, I do not mean as part of the USA Wink


lol

I remember when I was first taught about Israel's creation.  I thought that it was silly place to put a nation of Jews. It didn't seem wise to put a few million Jews in the middle of tens of millions of Arabs. I said "why didn't we give them the Dakotas, its not like we were using them"
It was, is and will be their land. You heard about history, roots, etc.

I know that now. But when I was like eleven, obviously I didn't know the whole backstory.
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dunn
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« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2004, 09:59:14 AM »

Can I just say, the 45/55 deal was offered a while back and Yasser Arafat refused it and continued terror attacks on Israel, I am for that deal.

When you say 50-50 ot 55-45 do you mean of the wast bank and Gaza or of the all country? the offer was 96% of the teritories (west bank and Gaza)
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2004, 10:48:09 AM »

Can I just say, the 45/55 deal was offered a while back and Yasser Arafat refused it and continued terror attacks on Israel, I am for that deal.

When you say 50-50 ot 55-45 do you mean of the wast bank and Gaza or of the all country? the offer was 96% of the teritories (west bank and Gaza)

I mean of the whole of Israel, I know it was 96% of the territories, after the conquest when they took Jerusalem they did say they would give all but Jerusalem to Palestine if the Arabs would sign a treaty to create peace in the region.
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dunn
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« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2004, 10:51:27 AM »

Can I just say, the 45/55 deal was offered a while back and Yasser Arafat refused it and continued terror attacks on Israel, I am for that deal.

When you say 50-50 ot 55-45 do you mean of the wast bank and Gaza or of the all country? the offer was 96% of the teritories (west bank and Gaza)

I mean of the whole of Israel, I know it was 96% of the territories, after the conquest when they took Jerusalem they did say they would give all but Jerusalem to Palestine if the Arabs would sign a treaty to create peace in the region.

55-45 of the all country is way more then the teritories . the west bank and Gaza are 30%. and it was noever offerd. Alas ypu mean the greater Israel (Palestine) that was the under british mandat
 
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2004, 11:21:58 AM »

are you sure it wasn't offered? I know they offered Gaza and the West Bank at one point, my friend said that they offered 45% of Israel before.

I know for a fact they offered all the land they conquered in 48 during the war with surrounding Arab nations
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2004, 12:41:44 PM »

I notice no one here supports it becoming entirely Palestine, or even split 50/50.
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MarkDel
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« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2004, 12:50:24 PM »

I notice no one here supports it becoming entirely Palestine, or even split 50/50.

JFK,

The only question for me was whether or not I advocated the eradication of all Palestinians. But since I'm not that amoral, I voted for Israel being the sole state. However, I think Israel needs to do what it's in its best interests, and that may mean a two-state solution in the current political environment where the rest of the world, other than the U.S., seems to be strongly pro-Palestinian.
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2004, 01:02:15 PM »

USA has made a few moves to try and create a Palestinian state, some Presidents have tried to force Israel to do things.... Someone at my school was arguing with me about this, I said Israel gave Palestine an offer of like 45% of the land and they refused and she said it was rightfully all their land, no it frickin isn't, it was originally Israel and the Jews bought lots of it from the Palestinians, not only that but the UN created the country in 1948!!!
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Michael Z
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« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2004, 01:47:34 PM »

Frankly, I'm not informed enough about this issue to make a totally qualified judgement. However, I fully support the existence of a Jewish state and Israel's right to exist. So I'm tempted to vote for the first option. But the creation of a Palestinian state comprised of Gaza and the West Bank may go some way to quell the troubles, so that's the option I voted for.

Who knows, maybe one day Jews and Arabs will be able to live side by side in a shared Republic Of Israel And Palestine... yes I know, it sounds totally utopian, but surely that's something worth aiming for.
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2004, 02:03:56 PM »
« Edited: March 26, 2004, 04:54:53 PM by JohnFKennedy »

Frankly, I'm not informed enough about this issue to make a totally qualified judgement. However, I fully support the existence of a Jewish state and Israel's right to exist. So I'm tempted to vote for the first option. But the creation of a Palestinian state comprised of Gaza and the West Bank may go some way to quell the troubles, so that's the option I voted for.

Who knows, maybe one day Jews and Arabs will be able to live side by side in a shared Republic Of Israel And Palestine... yes I know, it sounds totally utopian, but surely that's something worth aiming for.

yes, but doubtful, the problem with a nation of the Gaza strip and the West Bank is that they aren't very well placed geographically, they are not right next to each other.



If you look they are seperated by quite a bit.

One truly great difference between the two countries is that Israel is A DEMOCRACY, whereas Palestine is led by Yasser Arafat, a man who is also head of a terrorist organisation (the PLO) bent on destroying Israel.

Don't worry about being not well informed on the issue, most people are very ignorant regarding it, thus so many people support Palestine, they just see Israeli tanks killing people.

Anybody hear about the recent suicide bomber? a 14 year old kid was forced to become a suicide bomber against his will, they strapped a bomb to him and sent him in, poor kid surrendered to the Israeli army the first chance he got.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2004, 02:04:30 PM »

I notice no one here supports it becoming entirely Palestine, or even split 50/50.

JFK,

The only question for me was whether or not I advocated the eradication of all Palestinians. But since I'm not that amoral, I voted for Israel being the sole state. However, I think Israel needs to do what it's in its best interests, and that may mean a two-state solution in the current political environment where the rest of the world, other than the U.S., seems to be strongly pro-Palestinian.

That's doubtful, I think. Few people like Sharon, but a lot of people are generally pro-Israel.
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Michael Z
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« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2004, 02:06:48 PM »

yes, but doubtful, the problem with a nation of the Gaza strip and the West Bank is that they aren't very well placed geographically, they are not right next to each other.

Yes I know, that's another problem. A nation comprised of two separate entities rarely works, witness the Weimar Republic... though for the moment it appears to be the only solution we have.
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dunn
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« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2004, 02:06:54 PM »

are you sure it wasn't offered? I know they offered Gaza and the West Bank at one point, my friend said that they offered 45% of Israel before.

I know for a fact they offered all the land they conquered in 48 during the war with surrounding Arab nations
My friend you got all mix up.
No one will offer more then a return to 1949-1967 lines. the Arab nations invaded Israel, not an inch was taken from them until farther attacks in 56' 67' 73' (and most of it givem back). the 67' lines are the borders the un aprove, the question is the future of the west bank and Gaza. O/c many palestians want to destroy Israel
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2004, 02:07:14 PM »

I notice no one here supports it becoming entirely Palestine, or even split 50/50.

JFK,

The only question for me was whether or not I advocated the eradication of all Palestinians. But since I'm not that amoral, I voted for Israel being the sole state. However, I think Israel needs to do what it's in its best interests, and that may mean a two-state solution in the current political environment where the rest of the world, other than the U.S., seems to be strongly pro-Palestinian.

That's doubtful, I think. Few people like Sharon, but a lot of people are generally pro-Israel.

I don't think Sharon will win re-election, the stunt with Sheik Yassin was more to increase his falling popularity.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2004, 02:08:40 PM »

are you sure it wasn't offered? I know they offered Gaza and the West Bank at one point, my friend said that they offered 45% of Israel before.

I know for a fact they offered all the land they conquered in 48 during the war with surrounding Arab nations
My friend you got all mix up.
No one will offer more then a return to 1949-1967 lines. the Arab nations invaded Israel, not an inch was taken from them until farther attacks in 56' 67' 73' (and most of it givem back). the 67' lines are the borders the un aprove, the question is the future of the west bank and Gaza. O/c many palestians want to destroy Israel

The UN proposed splitting it ISralis 55%, Palestinians 45% in the late 30s, but the Palestinians refused at htat time.
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dunn
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« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2004, 02:12:09 PM »

are you sure it wasn't offered? I know they offered Gaza and the West Bank at one point, my friend said that they offered 45% of Israel before.

I know for a fact they offered all the land they conquered in 48 during the war with surrounding Arab nations
My friend you got all mix up.
No one will offer more then a return to 1949-1967 lines. the Arab nations invaded Israel, not an inch was taken from them until farther attacks in 56' 67' 73' (and most of it givem back). the 67' lines are the borders the un aprove, the question is the future of the west bank and Gaza. O/c many palestians want to destroy Israel

The UN proposed splitting it ISralis 55%, Palestinians 45% in the late 30s, but the Palestinians refused at htat time.
No
That was Un resolution on 29/11/1947
the jews exepct, the arabs reject, the war started, in it's end Israels border was created (49' or 67; lines)/ they are official. As the late Aba Even used to say: "the arabs never miss an oportunity to miss an oportiunity"
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dunn
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« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2004, 02:13:27 PM »

I notice no one here supports it becoming entirely Palestine, or even split 50/50.

JFK,

The only question for me was whether or not I advocated the eradication of all Palestinians. But since I'm not that amoral, I voted for Israel being the sole state. However, I think Israel needs to do what it's in its best interests, and that may mean a two-state solution in the current political environment where the rest of the world, other than the U.S., seems to be strongly pro-Palestinian.

That's doubtful, I think. Few people like Sharon, but a lot of people are generally pro-Israel.

I don't think Sharon will win re-election, the stunt with Sheik Yassin was more to increase his falling popularity.
Sharon is 76 and will not run in 2007
If his goverment falls befor that time it's b/c a corruption buisness involving his sons
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JohnFKennedy
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« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2004, 02:17:57 PM »

I notice no one here supports it becoming entirely Palestine, or even split 50/50.

JFK,

The only question for me was whether or not I advocated the eradication of all Palestinians. But since I'm not that amoral, I voted for Israel being the sole state. However, I think Israel needs to do what it's in its best interests, and that may mean a two-state solution in the current political environment where the rest of the world, other than the U.S., seems to be strongly pro-Palestinian.

That's doubtful, I think. Few people like Sharon, but a lot of people are generally pro-Israel.

I don't think Sharon will win re-election, the stunt with Sheik Yassin was more to increase his falling popularity.
Sharon is 76 and will not run in 2007
If his goverment falls befor that time it's b/c a corruption buisness involving his sons

yeah, it has hurt his popularity, doesn't he have pretty low approval ratings at the moment?

Barak was good I believe, he was a good guy, offered peace and land to the Palestinians but they refused, he was assassinated wasn't he?
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Gustaf
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« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2004, 02:20:16 PM »

I notice no one here supports it becoming entirely Palestine, or even split 50/50.

JFK,

The only question for me was whether or not I advocated the eradication of all Palestinians. But since I'm not that amoral, I voted for Israel being the sole state. However, I think Israel needs to do what it's in its best interests, and that may mean a two-state solution in the current political environment where the rest of the world, other than the U.S., seems to be strongly pro-Palestinian.

That's doubtful, I think. Few people like Sharon, but a lot of people are generally pro-Israel.

I don't think Sharon will win re-election, the stunt with Sheik Yassin was more to increase his falling popularity.
Sharon is 76 and will not run in 2007
If his goverment falls befor that time it's b/c a corruption buisness involving his sons

yeah, it has hurt his popularity, doesn't he have pretty low approval ratings at the moment?

Barak was good I believe, he was a good guy, offered peace and land to the Palestinians but they refused, he was assassinated wasn't he?

No, I think you're thinking of Yitzhak Rabin, who was assasinated by Israelis after negotiating the Oslo peace.
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