Scott Walker recall goes live

[AmericanNation]

If he wins, it will certainly be a major victory for those who wish to return to the good old days of the 1800's.

GDP growth above 2.5% ? ?  unemployment under 8% ? ?

Slavery ? ? Imperialism ? ?

Yes if Scott Walker is re-elected to his first term as governor of Wisconsin, than SLAVERY will be re-instituted and  Wisconsin will exploit it's overseas IMPERIAL colonies. 

Wait, Slavery has never been instituted in Wisconsin and we have no colonies. 

[AmericanNation]

apparently MoveOn is reporting that the DNC is pulling out of the recall race. 

this is all I can find on their goofy site:
 http://www.signon.org/sign/democratic-national-committe?source=homepage?rc=homepage.sidebar

[Frodo]

Depending on the results (for Republicans, very encouraging), I think we may be near to finding out who will be Mitt Romney's running-mate....    

[ModerateCoward]

Depending on the results (for Republicans, very encouraging), I think we may be near to finding out who will be Mitt Romney's running-mate....    

Walker becoming president of US is a very scary thought.

[AmericanNation]

Depending on the results (for Republicans, very encouraging), I think we may be near to finding out who will be Mitt Romney's running-mate....    

Walker becoming president of US is a very scary thought.

I am legitimately concerned that Biden is senile.  Walker isn't going to be VP, but Biden is actually scary. 

[ModerateCoward]

Depending on the results (for Republicans, very encouraging), I think we may be near to finding out who will be Mitt Romney's running-mate....    

Walker becoming president of US is a very scary thought.

I am legitimately concerned that Biden is senile.  Walker isn't going to be VP, but Biden is actually scary. 

Yea that's a serious concern, he made Sarah Palin look comprehensible in the VP debates, which is a noteworthy achievement.

[hawkeye59]

If he wins, it will certainly be a major victory for those who wish to return to the good old days of the 1800's.

GDP growth above 2.5% ? ?  unemployment under 8% ? ?

Slavery ? ? Imperialism ? ?

Yes if Scott Walker is re-elected to his first term as governor of Wisconsin, than SLAVERY will be re-instituted and  Wisconsin will exploit it's overseas IMPERIAL colonies. 

Wait, Slavery has never been instituted in Wisconsin and we have no colonies. 

That's not what I meant. I was just saying that the 1800s weren't "The good old days" just because they had a good economy.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

If he wins, it will certainly be a major victory for those who wish to return to the good old days of the 1800's.

GDP growth above 2.5% ? ?  unemployment under 8% ? ?

Slavery ? ? Imperialism ? ?

Yes if Scott Walker is re-elected to his first term as governor of Wisconsin, than SLAVERY will be re-instituted and  Wisconsin will exploit it's overseas IMPERIAL colonies. 

Wait, Slavery has never been instituted in Wisconsin and we have no colonies. 

That's not what I meant. I was just saying that the 1800s weren't "The good old days" just because they had a good economy.

Yeah that 18% unemployment in 1895 and 14% in 1876 sure was good.

[ex-Senator X]

Depending on the results (for Republicans, very encouraging), I think we may be near to finding out who will be Mitt Romney's running-mate....    

Walker becoming president of US is a very scary thought.

I am legitimately concerned that Biden is senile.  Walker isn't going to be VP, but Biden is actually scary. 

Yea that's a serious concern, he made Sarah Palin look comprehensible in the VP debates, which is a noteworthy achievement.

Not really, the McCain campaign just had her memorize about 25 answers and constantly pivot to those whenever possible.

[Torie]

If he wins, it will certainly be a major victory for those who wish to return to the good old days of the 1800's.

GDP growth above 2.5% ? ?  unemployment under 8% ? ?

Slavery ? ? Imperialism ? ?

Yes if Scott Walker is re-elected to his first term as governor of Wisconsin, than SLAVERY will be re-instituted and  Wisconsin will exploit it's overseas IMPERIAL colonies.  

Wait, Slavery has never been instituted in Wisconsin and we have no colonies.  

That's not what I meant. I was just saying that the 1800s weren't "The good old days" just because they had a good economy.

Yeah that 18% unemployment in 1895 and 14% in 1876 sure was good.

Hey, if we simply forgot almost the entirety of what we now know about medical science, and just turn it all over to quacks, who bleed you from time to time when you get sick, that should solve a lot of our fiscal problems, no?  And as to dentistry, in the good old days blacksmiths handled that.

[AmericanNation]

If he wins, it will certainly be a major victory for those who wish to return to the good old days of the 1800's.

GDP growth above 2.5% ? ?  unemployment under 8% ? ?

Slavery ? ? Imperialism ? ?

Yes if Scott Walker is re-elected to his first term as governor of Wisconsin, than SLAVERY will be re-instituted and  Wisconsin will exploit it's overseas IMPERIAL colonies.  

Wait, Slavery has never been instituted in Wisconsin and we have no colonies.  

That's not what I meant. I was just saying that the 1800s weren't "The good old days" just because they had a good economy.

Yeah that 18% unemployment in 1895 and 14% in 1876 sure was good.

Hey, if we simply forgot almost the entirety of what we now know about medical science, and just turn it all over to quacks, who bleed you from time to time when you get sick, that should solve a lot of our fiscal problems, no?  And as to dentistry, in the good old days blacksmiths handled that.

All of this will happen if Wisconsin public employees contribute a penny toward their million dollar pensions.  Also, the sky will fall and the seas will rise.   

[Torie]

My little point is that the social safety net costs a lot more today than it would in the 19th even if there were a social safety net then comparable to the scope of what we have now. So to the extent the existence of the net truncates growth (debatable), that is just the way it has to be and should be. Thus referring to stats from the 19th century (to the extent that they are accurate and compare apples to apples, which is another rather more complex issue which I won't get into now), it seems rather inapposite to anything within the realm of current public debate. Don't you agree AmericanNation? 

[AmericanNation]

My little point is that the social safety net costs a lot more today than it would in the 19th even if there were a social safety net then comparable to the scope of what we have now. So to the extent the existence of the net truncates growth (debatable), that is just the way it has to be and should be. Thus referring to stats from the 19th century (to the extent that they are accurate and compare apples to apples, which is another rather more complex issue which I won't get into now), it seems rather inapposite to anything within the realm of current public debate. Don't you agree AmericanNation? 

Yes, Scott Walker should not be associated with 19th century: slavery, imperialism, or lack of safety net. 

[ModerateCoward]

My little point is that the social safety net costs a lot more today than it would in the 19th even if there were a social safety net then comparable to the scope of what we have now. So to the extent the existence of the net truncates growth (debatable), that is just the way it has to be and should be. Thus referring to stats from the 19th century (to the extent that they are accurate and compare apples to apples, which is another rather more complex issue which I won't get into now), it seems rather inapposite to anything within the realm of current public debate. Don't you agree AmericanNation? 

Yes, Scott Walker should not be associated with 19th century: slavery, imperialism, or lack of safety net. 

Yes, you have to go back a couple more centuries.

[asexual trans victimologist]

My little point is that the social safety net costs a lot more today than it would in the 19th even if there were a social safety net then comparable to the scope of what we have now. So to the extent the existence of the net truncates growth (debatable), that is just the way it has to be and should be. Thus referring to stats from the 19th century (to the extent that they are accurate and compare apples to apples, which is another rather more complex issue which I won't get into now), it seems rather inapposite to anything within the realm of current public debate. Don't you agree AmericanNation? 

Yes, Scott Walker should not be associated with 19th century: slavery, imperialism, or lack of safety net. 

Yes, you have to go back a couple more centuries.

You need to hit that sweet spot where there's no safety net but also no projection capacity for imperialism or slave trade.

[AmericanNation]

My little point is that the social safety net costs a lot more today than it would in the 19th even if there were a social safety net then comparable to the scope of what we have now. So to the extent the existence of the net truncates growth (debatable), that is just the way it has to be and should be. Thus referring to stats from the 19th century (to the extent that they are accurate and compare apples to apples, which is another rather more complex issue which I won't get into now), it seems rather inapposite to anything within the realm of current public debate. Don't you agree AmericanNation? 

Yes, Scott Walker should not be associated with 19th century: slavery, imperialism, or lack of safety net. 

Yes, you have to go back a couple more centuries.

You need to hit that sweet spot where there's no safety net but also no projection capacity for imperialism or slave trade.

why would you do that?

[ModerateCoward]

My little point is that the social safety net costs a lot more today than it would in the 19th even if there were a social safety net then comparable to the scope of what we have now. So to the extent the existence of the net truncates growth (debatable), that is just the way it has to be and should be. Thus referring to stats from the 19th century (to the extent that they are accurate and compare apples to apples, which is another rather more complex issue which I won't get into now), it seems rather inapposite to anything within the realm of current public debate. Don't you agree AmericanNation?  

Yes, Scott Walker should not be associated with 19th century: slavery, imperialism, or lack of safety net.  

Yes, you have to go back a couple more centuries.

You need to hit that sweet spot where there's no safety net but also no projection capacity for imperialism or slave trade.

Ah so one century forward. Calvin Coolidge or Hoover?

[AmericanNation]

My little point is that the social safety net costs a lot more today than it would in the 19th even if there were a social safety net then comparable to the scope of what we have now. So to the extent the existence of the net truncates growth (debatable), that is just the way it has to be and should be. Thus referring to stats from the 19th century (to the extent that they are accurate and compare apples to apples, which is another rather more complex issue which I won't get into now), it seems rather inapposite to anything within the realm of current public debate. Don't you agree AmericanNation?  

Yes, Scott Walker should not be associated with 19th century: slavery, imperialism, or lack of safety net.  

Yes, you have to go back a couple more centuries.

You need to hit that sweet spot where there's no safety net but also no projection capacity for imperialism or slave trade.

Ah so one century forward. Calvin Coolidge or Hoover?

Coolidge Presidency.  Hoover was a great man after his presidency. 

[ModerateCoward]

My little point is that the social safety net costs a lot more today than it would in the 19th even if there were a social safety net then comparable to the scope of what we have now. So to the extent the existence of the net truncates growth (debatable), that is just the way it has to be and should be. Thus referring to stats from the 19th century (to the extent that they are accurate and compare apples to apples, which is another rather more complex issue which I won't get into now), it seems rather inapposite to anything within the realm of current public debate. Don't you agree AmericanNation?  

Yes, Scott Walker should not be associated with 19th century: slavery, imperialism, or lack of safety net.  

Yes, you have to go back a couple more centuries.

You need to hit that sweet spot where there's no safety net but also no projection capacity for imperialism or slave trade.

Ah so one century forward. Calvin Coolidge or Hoover?

Coolidge Presidency.  Hoover was a great man after his presidency. 

Both were terrible for the median worker. I know that's not who you are concerned about, and that's why you think Scott Walker is great.

[asexual trans victimologist]

My little point is that the social safety net costs a lot more today than it would in the 19th even if there were a social safety net then comparable to the scope of what we have now. So to the extent the existence of the net truncates growth (debatable), that is just the way it has to be and should be. Thus referring to stats from the 19th century (to the extent that they are accurate and compare apples to apples, which is another rather more complex issue which I won't get into now), it seems rather inapposite to anything within the realm of current public debate. Don't you agree AmericanNation?  

Yes, Scott Walker should not be associated with 19th century: slavery, imperialism, or lack of safety net.  

Yes, you have to go back a couple more centuries.

You need to hit that sweet spot where there's no safety net but also no projection capacity for imperialism or slave trade.

Ah so one century forward. Calvin Coolidge or Hoover?

Coolidge Presidency.  Hoover was a great man after his presidency. 

Both were terrible for the median worker. I know that's not who you are concerned about, and that's why you think Scott Walker is great.

Hoover was, legitimately, a great man both before and after his presidency. Just not during.

[patrick1]

^Re: Hoover: That is debatable. He was Sec of Commerce during Great Mississippi floods of 1927 and he stood by while disgusting abuses and neglect against African Americans occurred.

A good read on the subject
http://www.amazon.com/Rising-Tide-Mississippi-Changed-America/dp/0684840022

[ModerateCoward]

My little point is that the social safety net costs a lot more today than it would in the 19th even if there were a social safety net then comparable to the scope of what we have now. So to the extent the existence of the net truncates growth (debatable), that is just the way it has to be and should be. Thus referring to stats from the 19th century (to the extent that they are accurate and compare apples to apples, which is another rather more complex issue which I won't get into now), it seems rather inapposite to anything within the realm of current public debate. Don't you agree AmericanNation?  

Yes, Scott Walker should not be associated with 19th century: slavery, imperialism, or lack of safety net.  

Yes, you have to go back a couple more centuries.

You need to hit that sweet spot where there's no safety net but also no projection capacity for imperialism or slave trade.

Ah so one century forward. Calvin Coolidge or Hoover?

Coolidge Presidency.  Hoover was a great man after his presidency. 

Both were terrible for the median worker. I know that's not who you are concerned about, and that's why you think Scott Walker is great.

Hoover was, legitimately, a great man both before and after his presidency. Just not during.

Well I was talking about them as presidents.

[AmericanNation]

Hoover was, legitimately, a great man both before and after his presidency. Just not during.

Yea you're right, I didn't spend the time to craft that point properly.

Both were terrible for the median worker. I know that's not who you are concerned about, and that's why you think Scott Walker is great.

Actually, Coolidge was pretty great for the median worker.  Broad prosperity breeds opportunity.
   
FDR on the other hand was a complete disaster.  He cartelized industries, destroyed agricultural products, attempted artificially to raise prices (in the wake of the Great money Contraction, no less!), launched entirely new regulatory agencies headed by cronies, spent and ran up government debt orgiastically, pumped labor unions with more arbitrary power to behave monopolistically, and demonized entrepreneurs and industrialists.

[wormyguy]

Both were terrible for the median worker. I know that's not who you are concerned about, and that's why you think Scott Walker is great.

Actually, Coolidge was pretty great for the median worker.  Broad prosperity breeds opportunity.
   
FDR on the other hand was a complete disaster.  He cartelized industries, destroyed agricultural products, attempted artificially to raise prices (in the wake of the Great money Contraction, no less!), launched entirely new regulatory agencies headed by cronies, spent and ran up government debt orgiastically, pumped labor unions with more arbitrary power to behave monopolistically, and demonized entrepreneurs and industrialists.

Hoover actually started all those things except for the last, which makes the revisionist caricature of him as some kind of laissez-faireist rather more ridiculous.

I'd say he's probably the most genuinely good person to have ever been President, and has a good claim to being the smartest one, too.  Unfortunately, that wasn't enough to make him a *good* one at the time he was in office.

[AmericanNation]

Both were terrible for the median worker. I know that's not who you are concerned about, and that's why you think Scott Walker is great.

Actually, Coolidge was pretty great for the median worker.  Broad prosperity breeds opportunity.
   
FDR on the other hand was a complete disaster.  He cartelized industries, destroyed agricultural products, attempted artificially to raise prices (in the wake of the Great money Contraction, no less!), launched entirely new regulatory agencies headed by cronies, spent and ran up government debt orgiastically, pumped labor unions with more arbitrary power to behave monopolistically, and demonized entrepreneurs and industrialists.

Hoover actually started all those things except for the last, which makes the revisionist caricature of him as some kind of laissez-faireist rather more ridiculous.

I'd say he's probably the most genuinely good person to have ever been President, and has a good claim to being the smartest one, too.  Unfortunately, that wasn't enough to make him a *good* one at the time he was in office.

Hmmm, maybe more like except the last two or three? ...and I don't think the first one to any great extent either, but yes Hoover is sometimes credited with starting the new deal.  I wouldn't try to correlate the two like that though.  Hoover seemingly fell into a technocratic trap.  Knowing how things work, but rolling the dice that you can create a better outcome by threading a needle.  He at least knew how things worked, whereas FDR basically didn't.

Hoover's main blunders:
1) money supply contraction + balancing the budget at the time of the crash (long term is good, not immediately)
2) Smoot–Hawley Tariff... which I think he was personally against, but signed it in a deal.
3) Began our road to insanely Increased regulations. 
 
1st one is the only major problem ...it magnified the second hugely.  3rd is more of a bad legacy, due to others continually making it worse.