Does anybody find the term PIGS incredible obnoxious and borderline racist?

[ingemann]

I'm not South European, but everytime I see the term PIGS for Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain, I more or less place the user in the category obnoxious asshole. I mean there are so many less insulting ways to make a term (GIPS, South Europe), but for some reason people insist on calling them swines.

[Insula Dei]

Yes, yes, yes. You're absolutely right.

[ag]

Which one of those words do you consider obnoxious or borderline racist: Portugal, Italy, Greece or Spain?

[Beet]

You're right. I try to use 'peripheral countries', countries 'under pressure', southern Europe, Club Med, when I can remember to. But the term might be reaching its expiration date soon anyway-- I mean clearly, there is a growing realization that with France, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Austria, Finland, Hungary, affected (I mean, they can't all be degenerates, can they?), you would need an awfully long acronym to describe a problem whose root cause lies in the institutional design & heart of the EU.

[minionofmidas]

Never heard it before. Quite disgusting. But then so has been our coverage, at least of Greece.

Also, where's Ireland in that?

[ingemann]

Never heard it before. Quite disgusting. But then so has been our coverage, at least of Greece.

I see it quite often when people discuss South Europe, in fact it was this thread]https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=144160.0[url]this thread[/url], which inspired me to the poll.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Sometimes people use PIIGS instead when they include Ireland, there also exist the term PIIGGS which include Great Britain.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Yes, I think so. The implications are certainly... highly unfortunate. And obviously hypocritical at a fairly fundamental level, but then that goes without saying.

[scoopa]

No, I think it's a witty acronym. I'm from a PIGS country and use the acronym often.

[Platypus]

I'd always thought that the PIGS were Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain, and PIIGS included Italy :/

Three points:

a) P(I)IGS is a useful, widely understood acronym (although...)

b) GIPS would surely be more racist?

c) While it might possibly be considered racist to lump only the four/five nations together, rather than including others that are in similar situations, that seems to me to be a difficult argument to make, considering they were the worst of the non-communist European nations at taking money and making it evaporate. Certainly it isn't racist, anyway, to suggest that certain countries can't maintain an effective economic policy without other nations' monies if it is true.

[ingemann]

For one thing I have no idea what GIPS mean. For another it's a foolish to lump those countries together Spain is in lower end of European debt (in fact it has lower debt than USA or UK), beside that Spain also have a lower deficit than UK which aren't on the list even through both its debt and deficit are higher than Spain. Italy has one of the highest debt, but it have a deficit barely above 3%. Lumping them together are meaningless, or at least was at the time it began. By lumping them together a self-forfulling prophesy was created by making the market actors focus on these countries.

[Gustaf]

Erm, I think this is political correctness gone overboard. It's used a lot in Sweden with a pronunciation that doesn't really resemble the term pig which is a different word in Swedish.

It was originally PIG (Portugal Ireland Greece)

Then Spain, Italy and Great Britain were added to makeit PIIGGS. It's an acronym. I don't use it that often myself but I don't think it's the main thing to be upset about.

[CLARENCE 2015!]

Not as bad as if you replaced Portugal with Norway...

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

I've heard of PIIGS and no I don't think it's racist, I think it's an acronym.

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

In fact, as someone who is half Italian, I WOULD be offended, IF someone found it racist. The only way to find it racist is to actually call people from those countries "pigs" and if you call me a pig because of my race, I'm going to get offended, however the term PIGS is not calling them pigs and so it does not offend me.

In other words as odd as it sounds, if you are offended by the term, you are a racist who offends me.

[Jacobtm]

How can a term referring to 4 or 5 countries be considered ''racist''?

Certainly it's insulting, but that's the point, otherwise they would simply refer to the countries individually.

[Beet]

Well it can be not racist but offensive, it can be racist, and it can be neither.

The problem with these terms is that everyone interprets it differently. Some will use the term 'PI(I)GS' as a sneer and consider it a proxy for 'swarthy' southern Europeans, revealing ethnic prejudice which is sometimes colloquially labelled racism, which is what OP meant. Some will use the term 'PI(I)GS' as a sneer but attach no ethnic significance to it. Some will just use it because it is convenient.

And then for each of those groups, there will be someone who reacts to them. Those reacting to the first, might find it offensive due to racism. Those reacting to the second, might find it offensive because of the attitude attached, or not offensive at all. Those reacting to the third, might not find it offensive at all.

To complicate things further, then there are those who react to the reactors, like Theodore.

As I said, to avoid the entire mess, I simply avoid the use of the term PIIGS. And the term's usefulness is declining as it's no longer just the PIIGS in trouble.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Not racist, just idiotic and self-righteous. French and German people are trying to reasssure themselves by acting as if Southern countries "deserve" what is happening to them, and thus it will never happen to "virtuous" countries like them. Of course it's this kind of logic that has allowed for the domino effect to continue and will eventually put France and Germany in danger.

[CARLHAYDEN]

I'm not South European, but everytime I see the term PIGS for Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain, I more or less place the user in the category obnoxious asshole. I mean there are so many less insulting ways to make a term (GIPS, South Europe), but for some reason people insist on calling them swines.

The correct term is PIIGS (you left out Ireland).

[Jacobtm]

The correct term is PIIGS (you left out Ireland).

And why not PIIIGS with Iceland as well?

[Gustaf]

The correct term is PIIGS (you left out Ireland).

And why not PIIIGS with Iceland as well?

Iceland is not a member of either the EU or the euro. Also, it's really, really tiny so it doesn't matter for the world as a whole.

Antonio, you don't think that the economic problems in the PIIGGS-countries have anything to do with things they actually did themselves? It's just bad luck or evil actions by the evil Germans?

[republicanism]

French and German people are trying to reasssure themselves by acting as if Southern countries "deserve" what is happening to them, and thus it will never happen to "virtuous" countries like them.

Indeed. It is extremely disgusting.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

The term itself isn't racist but the media coverage certainly has been on occasions (as well giving a great deal of bragging power to northern Ireland loyalists... perhaps one of the irritating things about this whole crisis).