SENATE BILL: Empowering Regions in Federal Elections Amendment (sent to regions)

[Napoleon]

Kal, weren't you just accusing me of being anti-reform?

This goes back to what I said in the other thread, that calling someone anti-reform is idiotic. Everyone wants reform as long as they get what they mostly want.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I think this bill will be good for regional activity at the local level. So far, it seems like the regions are removed from the entire process altogether, so I hope the senate and the President considers this.

So you want federal elections to looks like one of the recent IDS regional elections in which only three people did vote (and you weren't one of those three?)

It will be a mess. I mean, we're voting on ratifying one constitutional amendment right now and two regions (cough, Archangel, cough Snowstalker) are yet to open their damn booths.

At current stage I really don't want to handle this to the regional officials. We have Department of Federal Election which is doing a superb work.

We had more than 3 people vote in the most recent IDS election...

But yes, I don't understand why people are so afraid of having regions administer the voting booths for federal elections. We can still have the SoFA certify the results, as I am sure Teddy will continue to want to do. This bill isn't anymore useless than one of your VP bills, Kal, which I ended up supporting, so I am not sure why you are so concerned about this one.

To be honest, Duke, I have very low confidence that all regional governments can properly fulfill this important task in a proper manner. We all know regional officials are sometimes experiencing serious problems when it's coming to fulfill duties like this. Remember, for example, when Rowan openly admitted he doesn't care about condicting an election. And yes, we had crisis that required federal intervention.

There are examplary regional officials, like PiT, who's always doing these things in time, but, sadly, such a dedicated public servants are not that common as should be.

In other words, my confidence in regions isn't great.

On the other hand, my confidence in the SoFE is absolute.

Beside, whether we have regional booths or one federal booth doesn't matter. Active citizens will vote regardless of this. Zombies will vote whenever they are told to. Those who don't give crap are still going to.

[Napoleon]

Ill support the caucus sh**t if you vote to send this to the people, Kal. I'm all about the give and take side of legislating.

[bgwah]

This will not change anything. People who are inactive and are coming here just to vote will still do the same, whether it's regionally-maintained or federally-maintained booth.

This bill is, IMO, a waste of time.

This Amendment goes far beyond just that one change. Though, at this point, this very obviously isn't going to pass whether it's written to cater to Napoleon or written to cater to everybody else.

I offer an amendment to remove "and certification of election results" from section 1.

Friendly. No problem with that.

I don't get why regions can't set up their voting threads on Thursday and having all voting start at midnight on Friday.

I don't understand why everyone can't having voting booths up. I had a perfect record when I ran the Pacific. But even the federal booths are late sometimes.

Mistakes happen.

What about the time the voting booth was mysteriously deleted? Just imagine only one voting booth being deleted. Maybe the Governor didn't like the result, or just wanted to cause chaos for fun. What would happen then? That regions gets to re-vote a week after everyone else?

That's an odd problem to lay against this one proposal. Would that actually happened? I seriously doubt it.

A SoFA deleted a voting booth before, yes.

[Napoleon]

I know in the Northeast we have multiple people able to open a booth.

Possibly, we could make governors post their booths by noon on Thursday, if not open by then, allow the SoFE to create that region's voting thread.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Ill support the caucus sh**t if you vote to send this to the people, Kal. I'm all about the give and take side of legislating.

If this is the case, then I will get down on my hands and knees and beg Kalwejt to death to vote for this.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Ill support the caucus sh**t if you vote to send this to the people, Kal.

I have no problem in sending amendments to the people, even if I'm going to vote nay on ratification. You, on the other hand, are not in position to complain about "the people being denied a chance to ratify or reject an amendment" afer voting, here in Senate, against sendind to them both National Initiative and Separate Election.

Btw, in case you haven't noticed, I'm not sponsor or co-sponsor of caucus, as you said personally, "s**t". 

[Napoleon]

Kal, I already explained two you that I was asked by constituents to not support that particular amendment.  I know you aren't a sponsor of that.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Kal, I already explained two you that I was asked by constituents to not support that particular amendment.  I know you aren't a sponsor of that.

Unless you spoke to each one of your constituents, it's both dangerous and kind of lame to pretend to be a voice of your constituency.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I offer an amendment to remove "and certification of election results" from section 1.

Thank you for hearing my concern on this.

The idea of a failsafe by the SOFE in case a governor does not open a booth is also a good, and I think necessary, one.

[bgwah]

It'd be better to have an issue like that contained to one region than all five together.

Marokai accepted this as friendly. I forgot to the 24 hours thing, though, so:

Senators have 24 hours to object!

[Bacon King]

A few thoughts on this bill:

I think it'd be a lot better to keep Presidential elections centralized. Having a single Federal official certify all ballots adds a lot of consistency when it's a nationwide election.

You might want to specify in Section 3 that regions can only allow registered citizens to participate the election.

Also, you might want to put some sort of restriction on the election methods that regions may use for their Senate seats- For example, I don't know how you guys would feel about a region electing two Senators that each counted as half a Senator and thus got half a vote (or, taken to a extreme, a region that elects every citizen to the Senate, each with a fraction of a vote. This would be fun, but a nightmare for the PPT!).

Also, you should probably specify whether the Constitution's prohibitions against dual office holding would still count for the Class A Senate seats.

[bgwah]

The amendment has passed as friendly.

A few thoughts on this bill:

I think it'd be a lot better to keep Presidential elections centralized. Having a single Federal official certify all ballots adds a lot of consistency when it's a nationwide election.

You might want to specify in Section 3 that regions can only allow registered citizens to participate the election.

Also, you might want to put some sort of restriction on the election methods that regions may use for their Senate seats- For example, I don't know how you guys would feel about a region electing two Senators that each counted as half a Senator and thus got half a vote (or, taken to a extreme, a region that elects every citizen to the Senate, each with a fraction of a vote. This would be fun, but a nightmare for the PPT!).

Also, you should probably specify whether the Constitution's prohibitions against dual office holding would still count for the Class A Senate seats.

Or we could just realize that the current way we do voting booths, and have done so for almost 8 years, works fine and there's no reason to change that with the massive headache this amendment will surely cause.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Is there any way to write an Amendment that gives regions the ability to administer their regional Senate election and/or alter their voting system to elect a regional Senator that could possibly get your vote?

[Napoleon]

The amendment has passed as friendly.

A few thoughts on this bill:

I think it'd be a lot better to keep Presidential elections centralized. Having a single Federal official certify all ballots adds a lot of consistency when it's a nationwide election.

You might want to specify in Section 3 that regions can only allow registered citizens to participate the election.

Also, you might want to put some sort of restriction on the election methods that regions may use for their Senate seats- For example, I don't know how you guys would feel about a region electing two Senators that each counted as half a Senator and thus got half a vote (or, taken to a extreme, a region that elects every citizen to the Senate, each with a fraction of a vote. This would be fun, but a nightmare for the PPT!).

Also, you should probably specify whether the Constitution's prohibitions against dual office holding would still count for the Class A Senate seats.

Or we could just realize that the current way we do voting booths, and have done so for almost 8 years, works fine and there's no reason to change that with the massive headache this amendment will surely cause.

Works fine for who? The regions with three or four votes in their elections?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Is there any way to write an Amendment that gives regions the ability to administer their regional Senate election and/or alter their voting system to elect a regional Senator that could possibly get your vote?

Yes, I'd like to know this as well. Or are we wasting our time debating a lost cause?

[bgwah]

No, there isn't. It's basically one of the worst ideas ever.

[bgwah]

The amendment has passed as friendly.

A few thoughts on this bill:

I think it'd be a lot better to keep Presidential elections centralized. Having a single Federal official certify all ballots adds a lot of consistency when it's a nationwide election.

You might want to specify in Section 3 that regions can only allow registered citizens to participate the election.

Also, you might want to put some sort of restriction on the election methods that regions may use for their Senate seats- For example, I don't know how you guys would feel about a region electing two Senators that each counted as half a Senator and thus got half a vote (or, taken to a extreme, a region that elects every citizen to the Senate, each with a fraction of a vote. This would be fun, but a nightmare for the PPT!).

Also, you should probably specify whether the Constitution's prohibitions against dual office holding would still count for the Class A Senate seats.

Or we could just realize that the current way we do voting booths, and have done so for almost 8 years, works fine and there's no reason to change that with the massive headache this amendment will surely cause.

Works fine for who? The regions with three or four votes in their elections?

The Pacific Region always has decent turn-out in regional elections when we have a competitive race.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Even though it seems we are destined to lose, I still think, long term, it would be a good move in increasing down ballot races. And that doesn't mean Teddy cannot still verify them nationally just because they are all not in one thread.

[Bacon King]

And that doesn't mean Teddy cannot still verify them nationally just because they are all not in one thread.

This bill takes away the certification powers of the SOFA for Presidential and Class A Senate elections, though, so it actually would mean he couldn't verify them.

[Marokai Backbeat]

And that doesn't mean Teddy cannot still verify them nationally just because they are all not in one thread.

This bill takes away the certification powers of the SOFA for Presidential and Class A Senate elections, though, so it actually would mean he couldn't verify them.

I understand you have a knack for identifying preposterous possible loophole interpretations in anything, but this is one I'm just not seeing, sorry. I even accepted Napoleon's amendment to remove the region's ability to certify election results, to keep it in the hands of the SoFE.

[bgwah]

And that doesn't mean Teddy cannot still verify them nationally just because they are all not in one thread.

This bill takes away the certification powers of the SOFA for Presidential and Class A Senate elections, though, so it actually would mean he couldn't verify them.

I understand you have a knack for identifying preposterous possible loophole interpretations in anything, but this is one I'm just not seeing, sorry. I even accepted Napoleon's amendment to remove the region's ability to certify election results, to keep it in the hands of the SoFE.

And you have a knack for supporting reform just for the sake of reform, even if it doesn't make sense.

[bgwah]

And keep in mind Senators, a majority of regions do not have their regional elections simultaneous with Presidential elections. This can't offer any "down ballot turnout boosting" benefits for my region, not that I buy that argument in the first place.

And regions with three votes? Where? The Southeast and Northeast are the only regions to hold their regional elections in February/June/October.

Looking at October's elections, the NE had 23 votes and SE had 12...

[Napoleon]

And that doesn't mean Teddy cannot still verify them nationally just because they are all not in one thread.

This bill takes away the certification powers of the SOFA for Presidential and Class A Senate elections, though, so it actually would mean he couldn't verify them.

I understand you have a knack for identifying preposterous possible loophole interpretations in anything, but this is one I'm just not seeing, sorry. I even accepted Napoleon's amendment to remove the region's ability to certify election results, to keep it in the hands of the SoFE.

And you have a knack for supporting reform just for the sake of reform, even if it doesn't make sense.

Ignoring whether or not that's a true statement (sometimes it is ), this proposal is not a reform for the sake of reform thing.  I wont hesitate to vote Nay if that is the case. This amendment not only allows the five very different regions to decide themselves how they elect their federal representation, the Special Report I published right before the last go at this was rejected providences some convincing evidence that we can increase turnout and importance of regional elections. It would definitely help my region to have higher turn out rates, and simplified voting procedures. Give this a chance.

[Bacon King]

And that doesn't mean Teddy cannot still verify them nationally just because they are all not in one thread.

This bill takes away the certification powers of the SOFA for Presidential and Class A Senate elections, though, so it actually would mean he couldn't verify them.

I understand you have a knack for identifying preposterous possible loophole interpretations in anything, but this is one I'm just not seeing, sorry. I even accepted Napoleon's amendment to remove the region's ability to certify election results, to keep it in the hands of the SoFE.

Ah, my bad- I missed the friendly amendment.

Also, not sure whether to take that first bit as a compliment or an insult