Are Republicans against vaccinations?

[Jacobtm]

One of the most bizarre episodes of the recent nomination contest was when Rick Perry had to backtrack on signing an executive order to give girls a vaccine against HPV, which can lead to cervical cancer.

I understand the ethical issues that were at play, that Perry may have essentially been bought off by the vaccine's producers to mandate its use. Also I understand the problems of signing an executive order vs. the legislature passing a law.

But those issues seemed  secondary in the outrage expressed over this whole issue. It seemed like Republicans were outraged mainly about the gaul of BIG GOVERNMENT mandating vaccinations.

Now, there are many vaccinations that every child has to get before being admitted into a school, so they are essentially mandatory. And with good reason, you don't want 1 sick kid infecting the whole class.

Are any Republicans actually opposed to the idea of schools requiring vaccinations before admitting pupils, for the health of all students?

[TJ in Wisco]

I doubt it (or at least I hope not ). The reason why this particular case was made into an issue is that some people think that by mandating an HPV vaccine it encourages kids to have promiscous sex. Then Michelle Bachmann got ahold of the idea and twisted into something crazy.

I think mandating an HPV vaccine is a bit too much from the government since its not easily communicable (not so much because of some fear it will cause kids to have promiscous sex, but because mandating a whole bunch of stuff becomes cumbersome and in this case it's unnecessary), but in general support mandated vaccinations.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Bachmann aside...the GOP is all for vaccinations against easily transferable disease...but to "mandate" vaccinations against an STD is a bridge too far.

[Sibboleth]

Bachmann aside...the GOP is all for vaccinations against easily transferable disease...but to "mandate" vaccinations against an STD is a bridge too far.

Why?

[Stardust]

There's a small subset of Republicans who've latched onto this issue since the start of the primary season, and I've noticed an uptick in reporting on this 'issue' on the conservative blogs I read. In general, these Republicans tend to be of the populist type. I doubt their numbers are strong enough to influence a national dialogue on the issue, but they certainly exist.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Bachmann aside...the GOP is all for vaccinations against easily transferable disease...but to "mandate" vaccinations against an STD is a bridge too far.

Why?

because you can't catch an STD during normal everyday school activity, therefore it has nothing to do with the classroom - a classroom where the government, ironically, is actively tearing down traditional moral values

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

No.  But many in the Religious Right opposed the mandating of the HPV vaccine because it promoted being sexually active.  I suspect that's why Bachmann opposed it, but she more played it off that parents should have the ultimate choice and government overstepped its bounds.

[Vasall des Midas]

Mandating the vaccination of anyone but small children, against anything but diseases that used to be common child killers, is a step too far.

I've no idea what this particular disease and vaccine are. If vaccination once is good for life, I'd certainly advise all girls to get it.

[Verily]

Mandating the vaccination of anyone but small children, against anything but diseases that used to be common child killers, is a step too far.

I've no idea what this particular disease and vaccine are. If vaccination once is good for life, I'd certainly advise all girls to get it.

It's a vaccine against human papilloma virus, which is the primary cause of cervical cancer (and some other cancers, too, but mainly cervical cancer). By itself, HPV does very little or nothing, but in about 10-20% of people, it has a risk of triggering cancerous growth.

[opebo]

They're only against vaccinatoins for the poor.

[Ebowed]

Bachmann aside...the GOP is all for vaccinations against easily transferable disease...but to "mandate" vaccinations against an STD is a bridge too far.

Why?

Because cervical cancer is an appropriate punishment for pre-marital sex.

[Sibboleth]

Bachmann aside...the GOP is all for vaccinations against easily transferable disease...but to "mandate" vaccinations against an STD is a bridge too far.

Why?

Because cervical cancer is an appropriate punishment for pre-marital sex.

Thanks. You offer one of the best translation services on the internet for this kind of thing.

[Snowguy716]

Bachmann aside...the GOP is all for vaccinations against easily transferable disease...but to "mandate" vaccinations against an STD is a bridge too far.

Why?

Because cervical cancer is an appropriate punishment for pre-marital sex.

Or post-marital sex the way these fundies are divorcing and cheating these days.

[RogueBeaver]

No.  But many in the Religious Right opposed the mandating of the HPV vaccine because it promoted being sexually active.  I suspect that's why Bachmann opposed it, but she more played it off that parents should have the ultimate choice and government overstepped its bounds.

This. But admittedly I'd find a Bachmann-Jenny McCarthy-RFK Jr. PSA (a la Newt/Pelosi on GW) on VACCINES= RETARDATION absolutely hilarious.

[The Mikado]

Bachmann aside...the GOP is all for vaccinations against easily transferable disease...but to "mandate" vaccinations against an STD is a bridge too far.

Why?

because you can't catch an STD during normal everyday school activity, therefore it has nothing to do with the classroom - a classroom where the government, ironically, is actively tearing down traditional moral values

As far as I know, you can't catch polio in standard school activities (do your kids drink stagnant water?).  Should that be required?

[Frodo]

Bachmann aside...the GOP is all for vaccinations against easily transferable disease...but to "mandate" vaccinations against an STD is a bridge too far.

Why?

Because cervical cancer is an appropriate punishment for pre-marital sex.

Thanks. You offer one of the best translation services on the internet for this kind of thing.

In no small part due to the fact he used to think like jmfcst on these issues until he had a Saul-on-the-Road-to-Damascus change of heart -wasn't this a few years ago when he had his renunciation that he shared publicly with all of us?

[Ebowed]

In no small part due to the fact he used to think like jmfcst on these issues until he had a Saul-on-the-Road-to-Damascus change of heart -wasn't this a few years ago when he had his renunciation that he shared publicly with all of us?

I don't believe I ever espoused denying vaccinations, but about six years ago, I did have a lot of beliefs in common with jmfcst in regards to religious doctrine.  You might be thinking of this thread.

There was nothing special or drastic that prompted my deconversion, it was more of a gradual thing spurred by the accumulation of doubt.  It would be fair to wager that my rejection of religion was made easier by having subscribed to a more literalistic interpretation of the Bible than many other Christians might.

Anywho, I'm just offering the possibility that jmfcst's steadfast objection to an HPV vaccine is motivated by that sort of spiteful sentiment I joked about - which he does an adequate enough job of indicating to us with his own words.  Really, this issue has nothing to do with religion as I think that reasonable people of any creed can see the value in preventing cancer.

[BigSkyBob]

One of the most bizarre episodes of the recent nomination contest was when Rick Perry had to backtrack on signing an executive order to give girls a vaccine against HPV, which can lead to cervical cancer.

I understand the ethical issues that were at play, that Perry may have essentially been bought off by the vaccine's producers to mandate its use. Also I understand the problems of signing an executive order vs. the legislature passing a law.

But those issues seemed  secondary in the outrage expressed over this whole issue. It seemed like Republicans were outraged mainly about the gaul of BIG GOVERNMENT mandating vaccinations.

Now, there are many vaccinations that every child has to get before being admitted into a school, so they are essentially mandatory. And with good reason, you don't want 1 sick kid infecting the whole class.

Are any Republicans actually opposed to the idea of schools requiring vaccinations before admitting pupils, for the health of all students?

I have no problem with the government making being vaccinated against contagious diseases a condition for attending school. I do have a problem with the government ordering vaccinations against noncontagious diseases as a condition for attending school.

In the particular case of Gardisil, the vaccine is a billion dollar a year failure. Merck set out to create a vaccine against HPV/genital warts, but, failed due to the very large number of strains. Instead of throwing in the towel, they put a partial vaccine on the market, and tried to have it mandated. Their campaign to have it mandated was particularly odious when they argued in effect support Gardisil because "those people" are against it.

In modern America, advertisements for Nuva-ring are required to note that their product does not protect against HIV+, but, Merck is not required to note the plain fact that Gardisil does not protect Girls against either HPV or genital wart infection!

In the long run, Gardisil isn't going to effect the rate of infection for either genital warts, or HPV, only the relative frequencies of the various strains. About the time Gardisil goes off patent, new strains will emerge as the dominant strains creating the opportunity for Merck to patent Gardisil's successor and advocate its mandatory usage. 

[BigSkyBob]

Mandating the vaccination of anyone but small children, against anything but diseases that used to be common child killers, is a step too far.

I've no idea what this particular disease and vaccine are. If vaccination once is good for life, I'd certainly advise all girls to get it.

But, Gardisil isn't for life. Now, they are talking about a booster shot every few years.

[BigSkyBob]

No.  But many in the Religious Right opposed the mandating of the HPV vaccine because it promoted being sexually active.  I suspect that's why Bachmann opposed it, but she more played it off that parents should have the ultimate choice and government overstepped its bounds.

This. But admittedly I'd find a Bachmann-Jenny McCarthy-RFK Jr. PSA (a la Newt/Pelosi on GW) on VACCINES= RETARDATION absolutely hilarious.

Wait, one of the side effects of gardisil reported in fifty some cases is encephalitis, which, can cause significant IQ loss. Bachmann may very well have meet the mother of a girl who did suffer severe brain damage right after using Gardisil. Out of millions of shots that's a minuscule percentage, but, it could very well have happened.

[Inks.LWC Supports Chuck Hagel]

The polio vaccine has side effects and the smallpox vaccine can cause Postvaccinal encephalitis - there's risks with every medical procedure.

[Link]

Wait, one of the side effects of gardisil reported in fifty some cases is encephalitis, which, can cause significant IQ loss. Bachmann may very well have meet the mother of a girl who did suffer severe brain damage right after using Gardisil.

But, Gardisil isn't for life. Now, they are talking about a booster shot every few years.

Links from reputable sources for your claims or much like the garbage that comes out of Michelle Bachmann's mouth they are false.

[Link]

Bachmann aside...the GOP is all for vaccinations against easily transferable disease...but to "mandate" vaccinations against an STD is a bridge too far.

Why?

Because cervical cancer is an appropriate punishment for pre-marital sex.

Or post-marital sex the way these fundies are divorcing and cheating these days.

Yes.  Reagan, Gingrich, and Cain probably exposed all their loyal wives to HPV.

"Trust me honey I won't give you cervical cancer." -Random Fundie Pres Candidate

"F U.  I'm getting the HPV vaccine." -Smart Wife of Fundie

[Link]

In the particular case of Gardisil, the vaccine is a billion dollar a year failure. Merck set out to create a vaccine against HPV/genital warts, but, failed due to the very large number of strains. Instead of throwing in the towel, they put a partial vaccine on the market, and tried to have it mandated. Their campaign to have it mandated was particularly odious when they argued in effect support Gardisil because "those people" are against it.

In modern America, advertisements for Nuva-ring are required to note that their product does not protect against HIV+, but, Merck is not required to note the plain fact that Gardisil does not protect Girls against either HPV or genital wart infection!

This is a lie.



There are numerous strains of HPV.  Most of them do not cause cancer or genital warts in most people.  You need to look into the concept of diminishing returns.  That is the problem with health care in America.  If something isn't 100% the unwashed masses assume it is a failure.  They want the medical establishment to spend billions more to try and make it 100% perfect.  70% of cervical cancer cases are caused by two strains of HPV.  Those two strains plus two other strains cause 90% of the cases of genital warts.  If you can get a safe effective vaccine to market which has the potential to eliminate 70% of the cases of cervical cancer and 90% of the cases of genital warts how is that a failure?  Which chemo/radiation combo costs a few hundred dollars and cures 70% of people with cancer with no significant side effects for the majority of patients?

Please name for us the mythical vaccine you know about which is 100% effective for 100% of the people.

I honestly don't know where you guys get this stuff.

[BigSkyBob]

The polio vaccine has side effects and the smallpox vaccine can cause Postvaccinal encephalitis - there's risks with every medical procedure.

So, why is Bachmann being pilloried for noting one such very bad reaction occurred with Gardisil?