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Author Topic: NYT: Islamists win vast majority of seats in Egyptian Parliament  (Read 950 times)
Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.
jmfcst
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« on: December 01, 2011, 10:10:40 am »
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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/01/world/middleeast/voting-in-egypt-shows-mandate-for-islamists.html?_r=2&hp

"Although this week’s voting took place in only a third of Egypt’s provinces, they included some of the nation’s most liberal precincts — like Cairo, Port Said and the Red Sea coast — suggesting that the Islamist wave is likely to grow stronger as the voting moves into more conservative rural areas in the coming months"
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opebo
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« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2011, 10:35:47 am »
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See, this is exactly how we feel when the jmfcsts keep carrying elections in the USA, jmfcst.
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2011, 10:39:45 am »
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No mention of turnout or anything, which is irritating.

Also could not help but laugh at this:

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Previously protected by Mr. Mubarak’s patronage

In the context of the Copts. No, that's not true.
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"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2011, 10:56:38 am »
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That was to be expected. After Tunisia there was really no hope Egypt could escape.

Let's still hope the Arab world will eventually experience a gradual and not too conflictful secularization framed by democratic institutions. Maybe it's a pipe dream, but it's worth hoping.
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It really is.



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

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Ghost_white
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2011, 11:15:07 am »
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That was to be expected. After Tunisia there was really no hope Egypt could escape.

Let's still hope the Arab world will eventually experience a gradual and not too conflictful secularization framed by democratic institutions. Maybe it's a pipe dream, but it's worth hoping.

Sure, after you become a Ron Paul supporter.
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That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
Verily
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« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2011, 11:37:50 am »
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That was to be expected. After Tunisia there was really no hope Egypt could escape.

Let's still hope the Arab world will eventually experience a gradual and not too conflictful secularization framed by democratic institutions. Maybe it's a pipe dream, but it's worth hoping.

Sure, after you become a Ron Paul supporter.

It's not clear whether this will work in Egypt, but at least in Tunisia, it's pretty much guaranteed that at some point the Islamists will govern in an unpopular way and lose an election. Especially since, if you break out the seat totals, the secular parties got 86 seats total to Ennahda's 90 total (with a fair number of seats going to parties which don't obviously identify one way or another, and no parties really to Ennahda's right).

Edit: Those numbers are slightly off, were from when some of the Aridha Chaabia lists were still disqualified. Close enough, though.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 11:39:35 am by Verily »Logged
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« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2011, 11:58:08 am »
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The difference is that in Tunisia the Islamists have to form a coalition government with a social-liberal party.

A system in which the liberal party keeps the Islamists in check is preferable to a system in which the army keeps the Islamists in check.

Situation in Morocco is similar to Tunisia's btw, except there also the monarchy in addition to the secular parties with thom the Islamists have to govern now.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 12:03:20 pm by Old Europe »Logged
opebo
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2011, 12:25:47 pm »
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The difference is that in Tunisia the Islamists have to form a coalition government with a social-liberal party.

A system in which the liberal party keeps the Islamists in check is preferable to a system in which the army keeps the Islamists in check.

Are you kidding?  The Islamic Party will get rid of that liberal party as soon as they get into power.  They'll either be tortured in a dungeon or living in exile in Paris by the end of 2012.
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« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2011, 12:35:14 pm »
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The difference is that in Tunisia the Islamists have to form a coalition government with a social-liberal party.

A system in which the liberal party keeps the Islamists in check is preferable to a system in which the army keeps the Islamists in check.

Are you kidding?  The Islamic Party will get rid of that liberal party as soon as they get into power.  They'll either be tortured in a dungeon or living in exile in Paris by the end of 2012.

Yeah, sure, whatever...
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« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2011, 12:50:58 pm »
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See, this is exactly how we feel when the jmfcsts keep carrying elections in the USA, jmfcst.

the difference being the jmfcsts don’t want to kill the opebos, they just want you to bathe and stop mooching off of them.
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Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9Y_GLT4_9I

I looked over Jordan, and what did I see?
Coming for to carry me home,
A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
Verily
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2011, 01:09:50 pm »
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The difference is that in Tunisia the Islamists have to form a coalition government with a social-liberal party.

A system in which the liberal party keeps the Islamists in check is preferable to a system in which the army keeps the Islamists in check.

Situation in Morocco is similar to Tunisia's btw, except there also the monarchy in addition to the secular parties with thom the Islamists have to govern now.

Might be true in Egypt, as well, as I don't think the Salafis and Muslim Brotherhood are fond of one another.

Also, given the fragmentation of the secular parties, I doubt Ennahda actually has to form a coalition with any of them. They could definitely run an ad hoc minority government. (Also, hesitant to call them all liberal, as the secular parties include things like the socialists and communists as well as the liberals, moderates and social democrats.)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 01:11:56 pm by Verily »Logged
phk
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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2011, 01:41:28 pm »
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I'm not following the Egyptian election that closely: but if MB voted, and the Westernized liberals boycotted, why the surprise in results?
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Antonio V
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2011, 01:48:09 pm »
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The difference is that in Tunisia the Islamists have to form a coalition government with a social-liberal party.

A system in which the liberal party keeps the Islamists in check is preferable to a system in which the army keeps the Islamists in check.

Situation in Morocco is similar to Tunisia's btw, except there also the monarchy in addition to the secular parties with thom the Islamists have to govern now.

Might be true in Egypt, as well, as I don't think the Salafis and Muslim Brotherhood are fond of one another.

Also, given the fragmentation of the secular parties, I doubt Ennahda actually has to form a coalition with any of them. They could definitely run an ad hoc minority government. (Also, hesitant to call them all liberal, as the secular parties include things like the socialists and communists as well as the liberals, moderates and social democrats.)

Nobody in Tunisia wants a monolithic minority government which would be naturally unstable. It's exactly what a country exiting from dictatorship needs now.
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It really is.



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
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Old Europe
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2011, 03:02:20 pm »
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Also, given the fragmentation of the secular parties, I doubt Ennahda actually has to form a coalition with any of them. They could definitely run an ad hoc minority government. (Also, hesitant to call them all liberal, as the secular parties include things like the socialists and communists as well as the liberals, moderates and social democrats.)

Well, I was specifically referring to the Congress for the Republic which has become the second-largest party, and together with Ennahda they've got a majority.

Also, last thing I heard was that Ennahda gets the premiership, and the Congress for the Republic the presidency in the new government.
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Snowstalker
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2011, 03:18:14 pm »
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There's a difference between the liberal Islamists and coneservative Islamists. Libya, for instance, is an extremely pro-American example.
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« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2011, 03:41:41 pm »
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That was to be expected. After Tunisia there was really no hope Egypt could escape.

Let's still hope the Arab world will eventually experience a gradual and not too conflictful secularization framed by democratic institutions. Maybe it's a pipe dream, but it's worth hoping.

They won't get there without a proper evolution this may be just a step of.
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Pope Kalwejt I of Northeast
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« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2011, 03:42:45 pm »
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That was to be expected. After Tunisia there was really no hope Egypt could escape.

Let's still hope the Arab world will eventually experience a gradual and not too conflictful secularization framed by democratic institutions. Maybe it's a pipe dream, but it's worth hoping.

Sure, after you become a Ron Paul supporter.

It's not clear whether this will work in Egypt, but at least in Tunisia, it's pretty much guaranteed that at some point the Islamists will govern in an unpopular way and lose an election. Especially since, if you break out the seat totals, the secular parties got 86 seats total to Ennahda's 90 total (with a fair number of seats going to parties which don't obviously identify one way or another, and no parties really to Ennahda's right).

Edit: Those numbers are slightly off, were from when some of the Aridha Chaabia lists were still disqualified. Close enough, though.

I wouldn't be concerned about Islamists in Tunisia. First of all, it't very unlikely they can do much on their own. Second of all, when compared to, let's say, Muslim Brotherhoods they're a bunch of liberals Wink
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Хahar
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« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2011, 04:00:54 pm »
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It's good that the popular will is finally being expressed.
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« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2011, 04:15:15 pm »
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The hypocrisy of this forum jumping down peoples' throats every time they suggest democracy isn't the greatest thing ever and then complaining when the Egyptians elect the party that best represents their views is disgusting.

At least I am consistent in not being a fan of democracy and being displeased by this result.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 05:33:26 pm by On That Midnight Cain to Georgia... »Logged

Beet
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« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2011, 05:31:45 pm »
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This is the Egypt that 30 years of Mubarak rule created. If he ever tried to turn Egypt from political Islamism, he clearly failed with his brittle regime. The MB has the hearts and minds. What does that say about Mubarak?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 05:43:03 pm by Beet »Logged

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« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2011, 12:29:29 am »
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The hypocrisy of this forum jumping down peoples' throats every time they suggest democracy isn't the greatest thing ever and then complaining when the Egyptians elect the party that best represents their views is disgusting.
I don't think anybody has said either of those things, much less the same person...so uhhh...cite?
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