Why do more liberal churches tend to be the most ritual-driven and traditional?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I've always find it kind of ironic, and rather frustrating that the most progressive churches that are the ones constantly condemned as heretics by the fundies also tend to be really traditional, full of a lot of mechanical rituals, won't play music past the 19th century and people would think you're crazy if you so much as put your hands in the air. Of course these are also the ones where people are more likely to dress up as well (though at least I'm sure if I went they wouldn't deny me entry or throw me out for wearing a T-shirt and jeans like might happen at some Southern Baptist or rural Pentecostal church.) Someone giving a pro-gay marriage sermon is far more likely to be wearing one of those pastoral robes than jeans. It seems that if anything this should be a very conservative attitude. And most of the churches that aren't "conservative" in that way at all still tend to be very fundie and conservative otherwise. Most new evangelical churches don't care how you dress either, at least outside the south.

What's frustrating is that while there are unsurprisingly still plenty of churches that are "conservative" in both areas including entirety of the Catholic Church, very casual, unritualistic and charismatic liberal churches are extremely rare and the "generally progressive but neutral on gay marriage and still regarded by some people here as insane holy rollers" one I'm going to now is the closest one I've found in those regards. It all strikes me as very ironic. Anyone have any ideas as to why?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I think I'm just going to put jmfcst on ignore from now on when I read this forum, I'll take him off for other forums of course.

How is it ironic? Most people's politics (and most priest's theology!) aren't driven by their dress sense.

Addendum: Happy Clappy churches are absolutely and utterly ritual-driven, almost to the extent that really OTT forms of High Church Anglo-Catholic churches can be (and they're more Catholic than the Catholics). It's just that their rituals are new.

I might as I often do be looking at things through the spectrum of the thought of young urbanites, but I've always associated a dislike of dressing up with more liberal politics. Even if it's silly logic like "How many people at your typical hardcore show are dressed up? How many Republicans are at your typical hardcore show?" type stuff.

For the second point: Well there's a ritual I won't deny, but it's quite different from what I'm thinking of. High Church traditional Lutheran services are full of all those response things, recitation of the same prayers and creeds every service and all that. There's a definite blueprint to my church's services, but it's way simpler. No responses, recitations of the same thing, and in fact no one prays out loud except the pastor/who's giving the sermon and the worship leader (and for her it's typically just "Oh God you are so awesome, you rule!" type things.) It basically goes like this:

Opening song
Worship leader typically says a short prayer in the manner described above
People greet each other and shake hands (no "peace be with you", we just say good morning)
Some announcements about upcoming events
Pastor/whoever is giving the sermon if it's a guest speaker comes up and gives their sermon (this has a format too, but it's just they give an introduction as to what the topic is about, say a short prayer in relation to this and then give the main part of it.)
Worship leader prays again and sometimes between songs, some more songs are played (during this time the collection plate is passed around and you can take communion, no set time for communion, there's just plates with crushed crackers and small plastic cups of wine in all four corners of the room you just take when you want to.)
Pastor comes up on stage again and gives the closing prayer (typically related again to the sermon topic and never pre-written)
Band plays one more song while some people stand up front and invite anyone asking for prayer to come up and ask them to pray with them (yes this is often for "healing" with the whole laying of hands thing too)

And the funny thing is this typically lasts around 80 minutes while those very mechanical traditional Lutheran services often clock under 50 minutes, even though a lot more things are done in them.

I've always find it kind of ironic, and rather frustrating that the most progressive churches that are the ones constantly condemned as heretics by the fundies also tend to be really traditional, full of a lot of mechanical rituals, won't play music past the 19th century and people would think you're crazy if you so much as put your hands in the air. Of course these are also the ones where people are more likely to dress up as well (though at least I'm sure if I went they wouldn't deny me entry or throw me out for wearing a T-shirt and jeans like might happen at some Southern Baptist or rural Pentecostal church.) Someone giving a pro-gay marriage sermon is far more likely to be wearing one of those pastoral robes than jeans. It seems that if anything this should be a very conservative attitude. And most of the churches that aren't "conservative" in that way at all still tend to be very fundie and conservative otherwise. Most new evangelical churches don't care how you dress either, at least outside the south.

What's frustrating is that while there are unsurprisingly still plenty of churches that are "conservative" in both areas including entirety of the Catholic Church, very casual, unritualistic and charismatic liberal churches are extremely rare and the "generally progressive but neutral on gay marriage and still regarded by some people here as insane holy rollers" one I'm going to now is the closest one I've found in those regards. It all strikes me as very ironic. Anyone have any ideas as to why?

Huh? I go to a fairly conservative SBC church and 40% of the congregation is wearing jeans on a given Sunday. Another 40% are wearing khaki's and a polo shirt or collared shirt without a tie. Only the old people and pastoral staff wear suits and ties or even a sports coat/blazer...

And that's more conservative dress-wise than I see at most other Southern Baptist churches (unfortunately, imo).

I never saw you as a Southern Baptist especially considering how Zionist they are...

I've never been to one and I'd be shocked if I ever do, but in any videos I see of Pentecostal churches I see lots of ties and I still remember those John Arthur Eaves ads with him and his songs leaving church all dressed in full suits, which actually shocked me a little because I never saw that growing up. But if only 40% of the congregation are wearing jeans and a majority are wearing a polo or collared shirt and anyone including the pastoral staff are wearing a suit and tie, that is way more formal than where I go. I doubt someone wearing this shirt and ripped jeans like I have done before would fit in well (not that I'd expect anyone at a Southern Baptist church to even know who that band is obviously), or any guys like this (that's basically what the new associate pastor who gave the sermon last week looks like for the record), or girls like this and probably not many girls in those hipster scarves that I love so much.

My parents go to probably the most liberal Lutheran church in my hometown (it's also the most casual and "happy clappy" though there isn't much of that swaying and hand raising), the pastor don't wear robes (though not jeans either), no one dresses up super-formally, but I still got glares and dirty looks from olds whenever I went there in holey jeans or a weird-looking band shirt. You can see how most people are dressed here and here, not exactly formal but way moreso than at the shows I go to or a club or coffeeshop. Having seen people leaving at that super-liberal Congregational church near me I see it's largely the same thing.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Oh here's a great example. Episcopal Easter service

Look at how the congregation is dressed. I'm pretty sure if I went there dressed in my standard band hoodie/shirt and jeans and started jumping around and throwing my hands in the air people would think I was some type of real life troll trying to disrupt the service instead of worshiping.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I've never ever heard of the modern-day Israel mentioned in church and was kind of shocked to find out how obsessed with Zionism some are and people like jmfcst can be.

But anyway are there ever people wearing band shirts or those type of hipster fashions? I just ordered this shirt and would have no problem wearing it to church, I have a tough time seeing that ever happen in any SBC church unless it was someone there against their will trying to protest or something. Same thing in a "high church" Episcopal.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I suppose the whole driving point here is the traditional-style is more likely to be favored by olds while the charismatic style is more likely to be favored by youngs, yet it's obvious who is more supportive of gay marriage in those two groups.