Military detention of US citizens...

[courts]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/01/military-detention-us-citizens_n_1124534.html?ref=politics

We seem 'safe' for now but the utter lack of discussion of this on forum baffles me.

[patrick1]

Where can I find text of this?  They allude to clear violations of Posse Comitatus being enshrined but really don't mention specifics.  The military really shouldn't be given domestic power like this.  Use of state National Guards for show of force is one thing but they suggest much greater powers.

[courts]

Where can I find text of this?  They allude to clear violations of Posse Comitatus being enshrined but really don't mention specifics.  The military really shouldn't be given domestic power like this.  Use of state National Guards for show of force is one thing but they suggest much greater powers.

HuffPo has one draft and ACLU had a PDF linked for awhile. Also a bunch of right wing blogs like New American were circulating earlier drafts iirc.

[krazen1211]

This is so 2005. The ACLU forgot that most of the left wing no longer cares about war or Guantanemo or detention or anything like that since Obama.

[Ban my account ffs!]

This is so 2005. The ACLU forgot that most of the left wing no longer cares about war or Guantanemo or detention or anything like that since Obama.

If you read the article, it was Diane Feinstein that offered an amendment to bar the military from arresting American citizens indefinitely.  It failed 45-55.  The "compromise" status quo bill passed 99-1.

Perhaps you should realize that most politicians support fascist policies like this, and rather than relying on the left to uphold American freedoms, you should encourage your own party to do the same.

[krazen1211]

This is so 2005. The ACLU forgot that most of the left wing no longer cares about war or Guantanemo or detention or anything like that since Obama.

If you read the article, it was Diane Feinstein that offered an amendment to bar the military from arresting American citizens indefinitely.  It failed 45-55.  The "compromise" status quo bill passed 99-1.

Perhaps you should realize that most politicians support fascist policies like this, and rather than relying on the left to uphold American freedoms, you should encourage your own party to do the same.

I was not really referring to politicians, nor do I particularly care about the people locked in Guantanemo one way or another.

The bulk of the whining liberals, of course, used to holler like madmen and accuse President Bush of fascism. Now they'll merely bury a comment about 'disappointment' on the bottom of their blog page and try to move on to another issue just as Senate Democrats will do here. Hence of course the 'utter lack of discussion'.

Quite a change in attitude! And a good one, too; now that the whining liberals no longer make a significant fuss, we can deal with terrorists more easily.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

This is so 2005. The ACLU forgot that most of the left wing no longer cares about war or Guantanemo or detention or anything like that since Obama.

[Ban my account ffs!]

This is so 2005. The ACLU forgot that most of the left wing no longer cares about war or Guantanemo or detention or anything like that since Obama.

If you read the article, it was Diane Feinstein that offered an amendment to bar the military from arresting American citizens indefinitely.  It failed 45-55.  The "compromise" status quo bill passed 99-1.

Perhaps you should realize that most politicians support fascist policies like this, and rather than relying on the left to uphold American freedoms, you should encourage your own party to do the same.

I was not really referring to politicians, nor do I particularly care about the people locked in Guantanemo one way or another.

The bulk of the whining liberals, of course, used to holler like madmen and accuse President Bush of fascism. Now they'll merely bury a comment about 'disappointment' on the bottom of their blog page and try to move on to another issue just as Senate Democrats will do here. Hence of course the 'utter lack of discussion'.

Quite a change in attitude! And a good one, too; now that the whining liberals no longer make a significant fuss, we can deal with terrorists more easily.

They bury their disappointment... but at least they acknowledge it.  I don't remember many Republicans offering their own disappointment when Bush did crap they didn't like.  No no.. fall in line!

But I think it's fairly obvious in this country that Republicans will only ever be the ones to successfully raise taxes and the Democrats will only ever be the ones to successfully fight terrorists.  That's just how it goes in such a divided, partisan political system!

And as for the liberals being disappointed but still supporting Obama... there are two choices in this country.  The devil you know, and the devil you don't want to know.  I'll take Obama.  At least I get 33% of what I think needs to be done instead of 0%.

[courts]

This is so 2005. The ACLU forgot that most of the left wing no longer cares about war or Guantanemo or detention or anything like that since Obama.

http://conservativedailynews.com/2011/11/senator-paul-on-the-indefinite-military-detention-of-american-citizens/

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/9956-senate-bill-to-ok-indefinite-detention-of-us-citizens-without-charge-trial

http://www.southernavenger.com/

http://features.rr.com/article/0b0n0QIg5wanS?q=Tea+Party+movement

http://www.conservativeactionalerts.com/2011/12/s-1867-indefinite-detention-defense-bill-passes-senate/

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=373357

Look at all those whiny liberals on the internets.

[Link]

This is so 2005. The ACLU forgot that most of the left wing no longer cares about war or Guantanemo or detention or anything like that since Obama.

http://conservativedailynews.com/2011/11/senator-paul-on-the-indefinite-military-detention-of-american-citizens/

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/9956-senate-bill-to-ok-indefinite-detention-of-us-citizens-without-charge-trial

http://www.southernavenger.com/

http://features.rr.com/article/0b0n0QIg5wanS?q=Tea+Party+movement

http://www.conservativeactionalerts.com/2011/12/s-1867-indefinite-detention-defense-bill-passes-senate/

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=373357

Look at all those whiny liberals on the internets.

Not even close.  The witch hunt that went on when Bush was in the White House was so bad even people that expressed sympathy for the targets of the hunt were themselves witch hunted.



Things have not been perfect under Obama but there is no way you can make any comparison.  Put the crack pipe down.

[courts]

What's changed since Bush?

[Link]

What's changed since Bush?

Musicians that oppose Obama aren't being systematically banned from radio and there aren't disc jockeys that question the nonexistent bannings being witch hunted.  Unless you know something we don't.

[courts]

This isn't a partisan or "left/right" issue, in case you totally missed my point. But to elaborate: It's not like the Patriot Act or Military Commissions Act or Guantanamo are gone (and yes, Obama claimed to oppose the last one but that was pretty quickly abandoned). They're still very much around. On the other hand, under Obama we've had serious attempts at clamping down on the internet and "extra judicial killings" including of US citizens. The US has never been as friendly towards civil rights as it likes to claim but it seems like a pretty obvious rapid downhill slope since 2001. And don't tell me we ended renditions because even middle of the road milquetoasts like Politifact will tell you that's not really true.

[krazen1211]

This isn't a partisan or "left/right" issue, in case you totally missed my point. But to elaborate: It's not like the Patriot Act or Military Commissions Act or Guantanamo are gone (and yes, Obama claimed to oppose the last one but that was pretty quickly abandoned). They're still very much around. On the other hand, under Obama we've had serious attempts at clamping down on the internet and "extra judicial killings" including of US citizens. The US has never been as friendly towards civil rights as it likes to claim but it seems like a pretty obvious rapid downhill slope since 2001. And don't tell me we ended renditions because even middle of the road milquetoasts like Politifact will tell you that's not really true.

Lol, what? Have you forgotten Executive Order 9066 or Bobby Kennedy's wiretapping? Or for that matter Ex Parte Merryman.

[Link]

The US has never been as friendly towards civil rights as it likes to claim...

Yes, and you offer up as evidence of this utter disregard for civil rights the presidency of a black Democrat?!

ok.

[Bacon King]

Last I heard, Obama said he was vetoing this, no?

[Reginald]

Last I heard, Obama said he was vetoing this, no?

That's what I've heard as well. If that's the case, kudos to him. It's just astounding, really, that it passed that overwhelmingly.

[Jacobtm]

At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it?-- Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never!--All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years.

At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.

[Paul Kemp]

People seem to be making a big deal of this on the internets and Facebook. Is there any thing actually to this or is it just the usual tin foil hat paranoia?

Also, hasn't the we been doing this on some level, legal or not, for some time?

[krazen1211]

Passed and to be signed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress-sends-defense-bill-to-obama-after-reworking-detainee-provisions/2011/12/15/gIQAh1vhwO_story.html

The $662 billion defense authorization bill was approved by the Senate 86 to 13 one day after the White House withdrew its threat to veto the measure over several controversial detainee provisions. The White House said those provisions would have been an infringement on its executive power. The bill overwhelmingly passed the House on Wednesday 283 to 136.





The ACLU is bleating its sadface jokes again and life goes on.

[Oakvale]

People seem to be making a big deal of this on the internets and Facebook. Is there any thing actually to this or is it just the usual tin foil hat paranoia?

No. As with all legislation that supposedly spells the arrival of fascism in America, this won't have much real world impact.

[courts]

People seem to be making a big deal of this on the internets and Facebook. Is there any thing actually to this or is it just the usual tin foil hat paranoia?

No. As with all legislation that supposedly spells the arrival of fascism in America, this won't have much real world impact.

I know you have a low opinion of me but I'm not one to post videos of PLASTIC FEMA COFFINS 111 or similar nonsense.. This has been verified to apply to US citizens by multiple legal scholars like Jon Hutson and has former officials (and current officials!) in the FBI, Pentagon and others that aren't human rights watch already criticizing it. That and well, the language in Section 1021 and 1022 if you take the time to look at it...

Last I heard, Obama said he was vetoing this, no?

Well predictably he didn't, but what he was posturing over had nothing to do with what people are worried about. He was the one who asked for them according to Levin.

[Oakvale]

People seem to be making a big deal of this on the internets and Facebook. Is there any thing actually to this or is it just the usual tin foil hat paranoia?

No. As with all legislation that supposedly spells the arrival of fascism in America, this won't have much real world impact.

I know you have a low opinion of me

That's not true at all, Mint. I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. I've got a lot of time for you.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Yeah, I'm naturally sceptical of anything that supposedly heralds the last gasp of American freedom or whatever, though... I'm not saying that this is necessarily a good bill, but as far as I can see - and admittedly I've only taken a cursory glance, so feel free to correct me - this doesn't change a whole lot as the current situation stands. Now, whether you think the current situation as regards indefinite detention is acceptable is another matter...

[Linus Van Pelt]

People seem to be making a big deal of this on the internets and Facebook. Is there any thing actually to this or is it just the usual tin foil hat paranoia?

No. As with all legislation that supposedly spells the arrival of fascism in America, this won't have much real world impact.

I know you have a low opinion of me

That's not true at all, Mint. I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. I've got a lot of time for you.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Yeah, I'm naturally sceptical of anything that supposedly heralds the last gasp of American freedom or whatever, though... I'm not saying that this is necessarily a good bill, but as far as I can see - and admittedly I've only taken a cursory glance, so feel free to correct me - this doesn't change a whole lot as the current situation stands. Now, whether you think the current situation as regards indefinite detention is acceptable is another matter...

No, it doesn't. But that's the point. The point of electing a "liberal" Democrat was that this sort of thing would change. This doesn't stem from any naive illusions that Obama was some sort of leftist; civilians' right to a civilian trial with some sort of due process is generally standard in first-world democracies.

I hate to play the Worm, being broadly anti-libertarian, and I really hate to play the morally odious K-man, but there is something outrageous and hypocritical about how many Democrats are acting here with the president one of their own.

[Zarn]

People seem to be making a big deal of this on the internets and Facebook. Is there any thing actually to this or is it just the usual tin foil hat paranoia?

No. As with all legislation that supposedly spells the arrival of fascism in America, this won't have much real world impact.

Tyranny builds itself up little by little. Rome didn't become an empire over night. It had a nice corrupted Republic, whose constitution was ignored, to feed upon.